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ATS: A Military-Governmental-Industrial Conspiracy?

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posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 07:29 PM
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Mahree I am searching is just that the Carlyle firm business deals are so hidden that only when something big comes out then the links will start to surface.

I imagine that onces the bids for the nuclear program comes out then we will be able to see more links.

Now Carlyle started as an investment firm but as the years goes by the are getting more diverse and this companies or firms also enjoy privacy rights.

But eventually we may hear more about it a firm so big and involved in our government can not keep hidding its business partners for too long.

I am glad you are interested too. We will keep working on it.




posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Mahree I am searching is just that the Carlyle firm business deals are so hidden that only when something big comes out then the links will start to surface.

I imagine that onces the bids for the nuclear program comes out then we will be able to see more links.

Now Carlyle started as an investment firm but as the years goes by the are getting more diverse and this companies or firms also enjoy privacy rights.

But eventually we may hear more about it a firm so big and involved in our government can not keep hidding its business partners for too long.

I am glad you are interested too. We will keep working on it.


Thanks Marg, I spent a day trying to come up with the answer already on the 70%. Right now this process of quoting quotes seems a waste of my time. I might do as ADVISOR said and go back to his research on the Omega Group.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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Yes I agree with you I wish the Omega research was still going on, but is off limits.

Thanks to vajrayana I just learned that Mrs. Cheney was onces part of Lockheed Martin while Cheney was part of Haliburton.

I know is more out there but it takes more people to look for it.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 07:56 PM
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Marg and mahree - Great work guys!
Am really distracted with other work right now, but did a quick search for +Carlyle +Lockheed - knowing that most business associations are well hidden - especially when a corporation is 'private' not 'public.' But here is a place to start:

List of 25 Articles Referencing Carlyle and Lockheed

Outsourcing the Pentagon

www.sippican.com...

Carlyle Group sells Sippican to Lockheed

...and of course
www.thecarlylegroup.com...


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posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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smallpeeps says:

" The majority of taxes go to National Defense and building weapons. Americans will always pay their taxes, and they will NEVER take control of where those taxes go, so the MIC dog will always get fed first."

Sorry, smallpeeps, I did the Very Bad Thing: research!

If you go to www.whitehouse.gov... you'll find that 2004 budget outlays for Military and Defense spending total is 467,886, Health and Human Services 772,995, Housing/Urban Development 32,726, on Budget Social Security 63,195, and Off-Budget Social Security 590,801 (all numbers are millions of dollars).

So welfare alone is 126% of all our military spending, and when you add up all the other "entitlement" programs mentioned above, they equal more than three times what we spend on defense.

And by the way, the defense budget is 18.8 percent of the total budget outlays. Back when I went to school, "majority" means more than 50 percent.

Smallpeeps, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, our motto here is to deny ignorance, not perpetuate it; and your spending just a few minutes researching before you post would go along way to helping us all meet those goals.

You need to think about your credibility.

[edit on 6-2-2005 by Off_The_Street]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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soficrow

Oh my, soficrow the company that my husband works for is in one of those links, we had not Idea that Lockheed bought the company last year my husband is under the assumption that it was an idependant company they never told the employees about the sale at least not where my husband works.

This links are outstanding, the company was accused also of briberies with foreign politicians.

Whoa........



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
smallpeeps says:

" The majority of taxes go to National Defense and building weapons. Americans will always pay their taxes, and they will NEVER take control of where those taxes go, so the MIC dog will always get fed first."

If you go to www.whitehouse.gov... you'll find that 2004 budget outlays for Military and Defense spending total is 467,886, Health and Human Services 772,995, Housing/Urban Development 32,726, on Budget Social Security 63,195, and Off-Budget Social Security 590,801 (all numbers are millions of dollars).






The government's budgets are so convoluted and layered, it's next to impossible to figure out what's what and how much is really going where. And you sure can't believe what they tell you!


You'll get a better idea about what's happening if you check out these articles.

Greasing the Skids of Corruption

Talking Points about the Iraq Contracts and War Profiteers


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posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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soficrow, there are people who actually prefer to be lied to, as long as the liars tell them what they want to hear.

And, ironically, these deluded ones are the very ones who refer to others as "sheeple".

Sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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Sheeple? Not a word I use.

We're certainly at a cross-roads though, here and now.


1. The new federal budget being submitted tomorrow prioritizes international corporate profits over the safety and health of American people and US soil. Most of the allocations are funnelled to international corporations, not even American ones. American troops are being dissed in the budget because the military is in transition.

Soon, contract special ops from private, international security corporations will work almost exclusively with robots, instead of US troops. The military budget is allocated to effect this transition.

2. At the same time, America is facing a crisis with Mad Cow and other prion related diseases. This is a real and present danger right here at home, on American soil, right here and right now. Scientific reports are being published almost daily. Prions already are contaminating our water, food and nearly everything else. We do not need to fear boogeyman bioterrorists - only inaction, and bad leadership.

3. The Federal Budget does not deal with this crisis. At all. In fact, it dismantles or cuts funding to the few protections that do exist.


How International Corporations Take Money Away from the Troops


Outsourcing the Pentagon

Privatizing War - How affairs of state are outsourced to corporations beyond public control

Mercenary Firms and War Profiteers 1
Mercenary Firms and War Profiteers 2

Executive Outcomes: A new kind of army for privatized global warfare

Dogs Of War Inc. - A $300 Billion Dollar Business



A Quick Overview of Robot Technology


Microbots: Towards a Better Military

The Talon Robot: Ready for Iraq

Fly-eating robot powers itself






posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 09:43 PM
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Soficrow, I am not defending the budget by any means.

My point is that when someone posts something that is simply wrong and no one calls him on it because a particular lie fits the public agenda, then everyone on the thread -- the writer and the readers -- are perpetuating ignorance.

This is a perfect example of intellectual dishonesty, something I had hoped would be absent from a board like this.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Soficrow, I am not defending the budget by any means.

My point is that when someone posts something that is simply wrong and no one calls him on it because a particular lie fits the public agenda, then everyone on the thread -- the writer and the readers -- are perpetuating ignorance.




Very cool.


...But you do realize that the budget figures we're given are inaccurate and very incomplete? ...and did you check out the links? Some good stuff.

...I am not giving this thread the attention I should - hope you hang around and keep everyone honest.




yipes - used wrong face.

[edit on 6-2-2005 by soficrow]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Actually if you compare the 2005 budget for defense to the amount for the science research, yes we can say that defending the country rebuilding Iraq and making weapons is more important than finding cures for diseases.

Is not dishonesty here, our tax payer dollars used for the defense budget are becoming big profits for companies and firms involved with the Carlyle group.

That is what is all about here. Now more cuts will be made to programs for domestic agendas but the budget for the defense will stay the same.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Actually if you compare the 2005 budget for defense to the amount for the science research, yes we can say that defending the country rebuilding Iraq and making weapons is more important than finding cures for diseases.




Excellent point Marg.


...but the truth is, we can only compare program to program - the global budgets are pretty much buried, and hidden from view. It takes time and resources to track everything line by line and see what's what...



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posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 10:30 PM
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Has anyone here actually gone over the budget? It is there on the site. I have downloaded the entire .pdf file. Has anyone else?



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The truth is that bombs will be produced in 2005 this years in Los Alamos and it will not be only small bombs but big and all kind of bombs, something that people should be aware of.


First, please do give a link to back what you say.

Second, you do know that the Russians, just to name one country, have developed a "Wonder Weapon" as they named it in 2004, that can dodge any missile systems.... This wonder weapon can be fitted with a nuclear warhead.

What is the Meaning of the Russian Wonder Weapon?

Russia Tests New Wonder Weapon

The Chinese are not too far behind either.

This is from 1995 but it shows what the Chinese are also doing.


Despite international protests, China continues to conduct nuclear tests to develop lighter warheads for new missiles that fly farther and are more accurate.

"China is in the process of building a more reliable and longer-range arsenal because that is what great powers do. The Chinese are expending an enormous amount of money, but prestige has an awful lot to do with it," says one U.S. government specialist who tracks China's nuclear program. Many U.S. officials do not believe that China poses a direct threat to the United States, but U.S. defense planners still evaluate potential military scenarios in which Chinese nuclear forces could be turned against American targets. "There is a real possibility that the Chinese are developing their arsenal to keep the United States at bay as they work their will in East Asia," says a U.S. government analyst. Chinese generals view China's "sovereignty" as extending to Taiwan and disputed territories such as the Spratly Islands, which China seized in February 1995.


Excerpted from.
China's Nuclear Ambition Grows

The Chinese are very secretive and as it has been proven in at least one occassion, they were able to keep as a secret a new type of sub until recently...I am sure they can keep many other secrets...

The response of the US would be of course to build more weapons too. What exactly did you expect?



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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So Muaddib is ok for our country to let its people suffer and go poor and hungry as long as we get the wonder weapon and nuke programs at lots Alamos going, poluting our eviroment and causing all kind of problems to health.

While programs help the poor cutting them will led to more denigration of our inner cities.

Let see what happend when sickness and lack of food do to a population of a country, but that is ok we have plenty of Nukes to feed on.

You know you mentality amazed me, I feel like a true patriotic now I care for the people of my nation.

And occurs let's not forget that in the mean while the Carlyle group will benefit from the defense budget before is given away for defense weapon building.

Hail to Bush and the Carlyle group our tax payer money that will benefit the Elite while leaving the poor americans people to beg in faith base programs line for food.

The link is in page 8 of this same thread posted by me.

Well it seems that bush got the hint and he is going to raise the science research budget for the 2006 fiscal year but occurs they have to follow certain research guide line to satify the government. Control under Bush.

Propused cuts on veterans benefits, education, medicare for the poor, yes.....Bush is all for the people.

Let's see how the senate house will take it.



[edit on 7-2-2005 by marg6043]

[edit on 7-2-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Let's see how the senate house will take it.


Touchy one that is, if you really want to know, just ask the Senate Intelligence Committee, I'm sure they have a reply ready and just in case.

How ever in my opinion, they will take it just like the dog they are.



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 08:47 AM
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Yes ADVISOR I am waiting on that vote, It seems that our deficit is going to drown the US after all, nobody seems to care for the citizens of our nations need.

Muaddib here love our government, well my husband's father is a disable vet in his seventies and so is my father. They are trilled about Bush budget.

So Muaddib do you live around anybody that depend on Medicaid or vets benefit? I guess you most be with elite the one that had no worry in the world.

Anybody that goes blind to what bush is doing to American is not true American in my book just a wanna be.

Ha, and that budget does not even include the maintenance of Iraq and the social security budged to start.
Now the tables will turn who is who in American.



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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Was looking for info on Carlyle and Lockheed, and tripped over the info that led to this article:


Halliburton Wins Again

But the problem is not really Halliburton, or Lockheed, or Carlyle - the issue is accountability and transparency in government - and our ability to protect our nation from corporate predators.

As far as corporate scapegoating goes - the big guys change front companies like we change socks - they've always got more circling, waiting to attack. ...We need to focus on the system, not get distracted trying to identify each and every new shark. There be sharks. They come in packs, whenever they smell fresh blood. That's what we need to know.

A quick review of the history is in order...

Back around 1850, when corporate charters were still conferred by kings, America broke the aristocracy's back by creating a system to license corporations - and blew kings right out of the equation.

Our leaders rightly feared the creation of a new corporate royalty - that would function exactly like monarchies did - so they also created anti-monopoly legislation. This legislation prevented any corporation from getting too big, usurping the power of government, and re-establishing the aristocracy under corporate cover.

The protections worked, but the sharks have been nibbling it away, one bite at a time. ...Back in the 1960's, activists saw that the bid guys were gobbling up the little guys, and creating monopolies that slid in just under the radar. So they screamed blue murder. They could monitor the situation because the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) was open to the public, and the information was free.

So the new corporate royalty arranged to have SEC terms and laws changed. Now, we need permission to look at the records, and every piece of paper has a fee attached. Computerized access would be relatively cost free - but we are forced to go to New York and apply in person to deal with hard copy. Permission to view SEC records is routinely denied, but even with approval, it costs a fortune to track a company's pedigree. This is called an "economic barrier."

...The corporations that benefit from our tax dollars are not even American. They are international global businesses with more economic and political clout than our nation.

...IMO - If we really want to know who determines US policy, and what our military priorities really are - we should look into the Bank of International Settlements (BIS). That's likely where most of the money ends up - and where we'll learn about the hottest latest "investment opportunities."



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posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Do you remember about the 70 locky (that is how my husband calls the company) own by Carlyle.

Well the company my husbands work for it is a subsidiary of another company that falls under locky, my husband after that link that you provided asked the people in the main office about the buy out, and they told him that what locky did was to pain out 584 million of their debt and now they own more than half of the company, meaning that even when the company still keeps it's integrity the shared holders from locky pulls the strings.

Now apply that to Carlyle and locky and you have Carlyle owning the majority of stocks and also pulling the strings, Carlyle is a investment firm no a company like locky.

So they do not have to own the company per say but just be the majority investors and share holders.

Get it!!!!!!

Now something you do now see in the news,

On Monday the company my husband works for warn the employees that another subsidiary that keep the records of all the employees with the security clearances and personal information (it took over a year for the security investigation on my husband was done) was breach by thief and all the records has been stolen from the computers not physically but by breaching the net security.

Now this are the records for all the security levels in the company.



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