ATS: A Military-Governmental-Industrial Conspiracy?, page 6

BTW....one more thing that you mentioned. Let me quote that part again....

Originally posted by soficrow
...Socialist countries start venture funds so government can play the role of an investment firm - usually because established firms think business in their nation is too risky to finance.

...It's a completely different thing...

Let's put it straight.....what you mentioned is not the reason why socialist countries have their own corporate, or venture funds....it is because socialism gives the power to the party (the government) over every industry in the country.....

The ideology in the socialist countries is Marxist. The idea of a socialist state was drawn from Marx and then later developed by the first leader of the first socialist state – Vladimir I. Lenin. The Soviet Union was the first “socialist experiment” and also a prototype for socialist countries later on. The system was created from scratch. While it started as a fairly dynamic system, later it ossified due to political rigidity.

A socialist state as any other modern state has three main branches of power – legislative, judiciary, and executive. Nevertheless, in most socialist countries the overarching power is the party – the party makes the decisions about production, the party supervises production, in short the party combines both political and administrative functions. Most (all) socialist countries functioned or continue to function as one-party state. Property Forms In a socialist system the means of production (physical capital) belongs to the state that represents the people. There is no private ownership of land. There is limited private ownership of housing and small-scale physical capital.

Excerpted from.
Link

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Muaddib]

Socialist and Communist countries have what you call a Military-Governmental-Industrial Conspiracy....not the US....

Muaddib: This is not correct. The MIC of America is financed by taxpayer dollars whereas the Russian MIC is more of a central government industry. You noticed how THEIR Vietnam war (Afghanistan) bankrupted their nation, right? Our Vietnam made the core war-profiteers very rich. The American taxpayer and his belief in his vote will fund a MIC because he'll happily think that his tax dollars are going to something good when in fact, half his taxes are being used to build weapons and train warriors. He will gladly pay those taxes year after year and not question the need for war. It's a pretty sweet system for those on top (and who never face a bullet).

The military priorities in Russia and China are in response to us. Presumably they'd want to buy butter and not guns, right? In America, we could end war (yes we have that power) but instead, the profitability of war continues to be massaged. The socialist states cannot change the world, only America has the power now.

Here's an article about Nixon's Madman Theory in which he wanted China to think he was nuts and capable of nuclear first strike. Comforting, eh?

Countries like Russia and China have not been the moving force of war on the planet during century #20. They have responded to war fostered by America. Prescott Bush was part of the Wall Street machinery that funded the Nazis. You know this, right?

You are really ignoring some big facts. America profits from war and war has made it the Juggernaut it is. That fact is made possible by wall street and the bankers who love to see men die in war. These men hear cash registers when others hear .50 caliber weapons fire.




[edit on 4-2-2005 by smallpeeps]

And the Carlyle Group has bought corporations which have products from many different fields soficrow. Carlyle has over 100 businesses, here is a link with a list of those businesses.

www.creda.sk.ca...


There are some other businesses which are not in that list because they are not available to the general public, but only to the US Department of Defense and other government agencies.

Carlyle owns many companies that provide services and products soficrow.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Maudib

the Carlyle Group has bought corporations which have products from many different fields soficrow. Carlyle has over 100 businesses, here is a link with a list of those businesses.

www.creda.sk.ca...

Like these?

Carlyle Flying Club;Carlyle Golf Club; Carlyle Sports Arena; Halliburton; Houston Technologies Inc. ?

and these?

....Cut & Curl Beauty Salon; Carlyle Co-op Lumber; Prairie Dog Drive Inn; Royal Canadian Mounted Police; Moose Mountain Nursing Home; Canada Post; and my favorite ...Froggies Gym.


From your link:

Carlyle has over 100 businesses to serve you!

Accommodation:
Skyline Motor Inn 453-6745

Accounting:
Fradette & Dreis Chartered Accountants 453-6121
Southeast Accounting Services Ltd. 453-2252
Eric's Accounting & Computers 453-6425

Agriculture:
Farm Credit Corporation 453-2595
Precisions Agricultural Services Inc. 453-2255
Saskatchewan Agricultural Livestock Branch 453-6203

Beauty:
Cut & Curl Beauty Salon 453-2420
New Dimension Hair Studio 453-2499

Construction:
Bedecs Ready -Mix 453-2474
BCD Operating 453-4416
Carlyle Co-op Lumber 453-2535
Carlyle Do It Center 453-2412
G M Construction 453-2421
Moose Mountain Woodworks 453-6066
Birger Rasmussen 453-2293
Reliable Eavestroughing & Exteriors Ltd. 453-6410
Reliable Metal Building Ltd. 453-6410

Contract:
K-Line Maintenance & Construction Ltd. 453-6331

Dealers:
Carlyle RV & Leisure 453-6773
Carlyle Motor Products 453-6741
Moose Mountain Leisure Ltd. 453-2928

Entertainment:

Prairie Dog Drive Inn

Cornerstone Theatre

Emergency:
Ambulance 453-2455
Fire Alarm 453-2200
Hospital 455-2771
Royal Canadian Mounted Police 453-6707

Financial:
CIBC 453-6785
Spectra Credit Union 453-2223
Royal Bank 453-6788

Restaurants:
A & W Restaurant 453-2220
Canada Cafe 453-2540
Dairy Queen 453-6288
Moosehead Inn 577-2226
Office Bar &Grill 453-2044
Poole's Family Billiards 453-6182
SUBWAY 453-2320

Gas Services:
Dunn Transport 453-2836
Girard Bulk Service 453-2262
Krazy Cancuck 453-2277
McLeod's Service Station 453-2288
Petro Canada 453-2262
Harold's Quick Stop 453-2378
Carlyle Co-Op 453-2454

Greenhouse:
Country Garden Greenhouse 453-6252

Grocer:
Carlyle Co-Op 453-2222
Carlyle Bakery Ltd. 453-2325

Insurance:
Andrew Agencies 453-6718
Clarica 453-6179
Colpitts Agencies 453-2833
The Co-operators 453-2833
H & R Block 453-2281

Lawyers:
Holliday & Company 453-6729
McLellan Cundall Bridges & Baumgartner 453-2252

Medical:
Carlyle Dental Clinic 453-2484
Hospital 455-2771
Family Dentistry 453-6346
Dr. MacRae 453-2810
Cityview Optometry 453-2373
Head For the Hills Vet Clinic 453-3558
Medical Clinic 453-6795
Moose Mountain Health District 455-2771
Moose Mountain Nursing Home 453-2434
PharmaSave
Ramsey Drugs 453-2422

Municipal:
Gordon F. Kells High School 453-2500
Carlyle Elementary School 453-2393
RM of Moose Mountain No. 63 453-6175
Southeast Regional College 453-2552
Town of Carlyle 453-2363

Newspaper:
Carlyle Observer 453-2525

Oil Industry:
Amoco Canada Petroleum Company 577-7616
Badge Services Inc. 634-5522
Burlington Resources Canada Energy Ltd. 453-2291
Canadian Landmasters Resource Services 453-6780
Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. 453-2493
Carson Welding & Maintenance 453-6190
CE Franklin Ltd. 453-6100
Champion Technologies 453-6494
Enbridge Pipelines 453-6233
G M Fischer Consulting 453-6439
Houston Technologies Inc. 453-2230
Pemoco Ltd. 453-2359
Halliburton 453-2517
Spearing Service 453-6461
Spectrum Resources Group Inc. 453-6000
Talisman Energy 453-2545

Plumbing & Electrical:
Al's Plumbing & Heating 453-2328
Carlyle Plumbing & Heating 453-6475
Faber's Electric 453-6297
Haddow's Electric & Plumbing 577-2212
Moose Mountain Plumbing & Heating 453-2901
Nicolay Plumbing & Heating 453-6060
Southeast Electric 453-2021

Realtors:
Andrew Agencies 453-6718
Colpitts Agencies 453-2833

Recreation:
Carlyle Curling Club 453-6722
Carlyle Flying Club 453-6328
Carlyle Golf Club 453-6344
Carlyle Memorial Hall 453-2331
Carlyle Public Library 453-6120
Carlyle Sports Arena 453-6767
Carlyle Swimming Pool 453-6456
Prairie Dog Drive Inn Theatre 577-8778
Rusty Relic Museum 453-2266
Senior Citizens Happy Gang 453-2542

Retail:
Carlyle Auto Parts 453-6779
Carlyle Home Hardware 453-2242
Cornerstone Shoes 453-2411
Dayz Dollar Dealz
1st Impressions Clothing Boutique 453-6327
Foster's Audio Video 453-2233
Free Spirit Sports & Custom Framing 453-2881
King's Department Store 453-6337
Mi-Lady Fashions 453-2261
Old Fashion Foods
Ron's The Work Wear Store 453-6167
The Dollar Store
The Flower Shoppe 453-2876

Service:
Anderson Auction Centre 453-2327
A-1 Tank Cleaners 453-2520
Canada Post 453-2301
Canadian Diesel Truck
Carlyle Funeral Home 453-2400
Carlyle Rental Centre
Carriere Auto Body 453-6712
Classic Towing 577-7881
Cornerstone Childcare Cooperative 453-6318
Degeer Farms 453-2365
Froggies Gym
Humphries Holding Ltd 453-2355
Kal Tire 453-2461
Mark's Marine & Small Engine 453-4400
Moose Mountain Auto Glass 453-2077
OK Tire & Auto
Orsted Funeral Home 453-2400
Pam's Travel 453-2876
Regal Auto Body 453-2511
Royal Touch Carpet & Upholstery 453-2707
Royalty Dry Cleaning 453-2323
RR Brady Transport 453-2580
Saskatchewan Southeast Tourism 453-2850
Sears Canada 453-6757
Wilnick Repair Service 453-6300


....This is a small town in Saskatchewan, Canada. ....But you may be on to something.

Carlyle has offices for Halliburton, Houston Technologies, and a few more of the usual suspects. .....Do you have some kind of inside info? Like Carlyle Group bought the town to escape the coming conflagrations, floods and catastrophes and is using US tax dollars to build their getaway?



.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by soficrow]

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Muaddib: This is not correct. The MIC of America is financed by taxpayer dollars whereas the Russian MIC is more of a central government industry.

What i stated is not incorrect, the US does not own these private corporations and venture funds....the US government hires these private firms and corporations....

The Russian government industrial complex is also financed by the money from the people...the Russian people are paid less money by the government than many people living in other countries around the world, including the US.....the rest of the money is spent on defense and on the rich....

Originally posted by smallpeeps
You noticed how THEIR Vietnam war (Afghanistan) bankrupted their nation, right?

In that you are wrong...it wasn't the war in Afghanistan that "bankrupted their nation....it was a combination of the ways they did business, that the people were getting tired and restless of all the suffering they had, and were still undergoing. The government realized they must do something soon or they would lose control, but on the overall it was, "supposedly" as a direct result from Gorbachev’s perestroika.

The deterioration in the economy, and the paralysis of central power that occurred in the late 1980s and ultimately the collapse of the Soviet Union is thus seen as the direct outcome of Gorbachev’s perestroika.

Excerpted from.
WHY DID THESOVIET ECONOMIC SYSTEM COLLAPSE?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Our Vietnam made the core war-profiteers very rich. The American taxpayer and his belief in his vote will fund a MIC because he'll happily think that his tax dollars are going to something good when in fact, half his taxes are being used to build weapons and train warriors. He will gladly pay those taxes year after year and not question the need for war. It's a pretty sweet system for those on top (and who never face a bullet).

Since when is having a military something bad?.....would you rather that we don't have a military at all?.....

How many countries in the world have a military and make a profit by selling products and services to the military?....all of them.....

And do tell me which country in the world sends their political leaders to fight in wars?...... Every country in the world sends their young, and not those in power, to war.... But perhaps for some reason you are not aware of this fact....

Originally posted by smallpeeps
The military priorities in Russia and China are in response to us. Presumably they'd want to buy butter and not guns, right? In America, we could end war (yes we have that power) but instead, the profitability of war continues to be massaged. The socialist states cannot change the world, only America has the power now.

BS.....if the US became a country with no military power, Russia and China would still have a military....

China has many times stated that they will invade an independent country, which was never truly theirs, if this country decides to claim it's independance....that country is Taiwan...Taiwan does not foster terrorists against China...the Chinese want to take over that country like they did Tibet... Your ignorance of the actions of the Chinese government is a bit astonishing to me.

You want to tell us that the Chinese government invaded Tibet, that their military killed thousands of their own disarmed people in the Tiananmen Square, and that they keep maintaining a military which controls their population and want to invade Taiwan because of the US?..... now thats a new one....

Chinese officials have also stated quite a few times that a war with the US is inevitable, and that they must make sure they have the advantage.... This comes from their government officials. I have posted articles quoting Chinese officials saying this in these forums.

BTW....China and Russia were not always good pals as they are now, quite a few times the U.S.S.R. and China threatened each other with war.

Also, has accused China of providing Pakistan with nuclear technology and that their main reason for acquiring nuclear weapons is because of this. China and India were also at war 35 years ago, incase you didn't know....

CHINA AND INDIA ARE THE TWO MOST-POPULOUS COUNTRIES IN
THE WORLD. MUTUAL SUSPICIONS REMAIN, AFTER THE TWO COUNTRIES
FOUGHT A SHORT WAR MORE THAN 35 YEARS AGO. V-O-A'S STEPHANIE HO
REPORTS THE THIRD COUNTRY IN THE CURRENT NUCLEAR PICTURE IS
PAKISTAN -- A COUNTRY INDIA ACCUSES CHINA OF PROVIDING WITH
MISSILE TECHNOLOGY.

TEXT: BLAME FLIES FREELY AMONG THE THREE ASIAN NEIGHBORS --
CHINA, INDIA AND PAKISTAN.

Excerpted from.
www.globalsecurity.org...

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Here's an article about Nixon's Madman Theory in which he wanted China to think he was nuts and capable of nuclear first strike. Comforting, eh?

Countries like Russia and China have not been the moving force of war on the planet during century #20. They have responded to war fostered by America.

You are telling me that there is not a war between Russia and some of their former states as we speak?..... You are telling me that Russian officials have not stated that they will wage war anywhere on the planet looking for terrorists?....

BTW...you did mention the 1980s war of the U.S.S.R. against Afghanistan.... The Russian government went to war against this country...the US didn't make them do it.....

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Prescott Bush was part of the Wall Street machinery that funded the Nazis. You know this, right?

No...i am aware of the fact that Prescott Bush was one of the directors of a bank and since when did banks back then, or even now, ask you where and how you made the money that you are depositing?...... I am also aware that many sites in the internet exagerate the facts, or even in many cases tell outright lies, to benefit their own agendas.....

Originally posted by smallpeeps
You are really ignoring some big facts. America profits from war and war has made it the Juggernaut it is. That fact is made possible by wall street and the bankers who love to see men die in war. These men hear cash registers when others hear .50 caliber weapons fire.

I beg your pardon........you are telling me that I am the one ignoring big facts?.......

Your mere rhetoric may work on somebody that is not informed, but it doesn't work on me or those that can see that you don't know what you are talking about.



[edit on 4-2-2005 by Muaddib]

you did mention the 1980s war of the U.S.S.R. against Afghanistan.... The Russian government went to war against this country...the US didn't make them do it.....

The US's involvement with Operation Ajax caused the rise of the first Islamic state.

From Wikipedia:

Operation Ajax was the first time the Central Intelligence Agency orchestrated a plot to overthrow a democratically-elected government. The success of this operation, and its relatively low cost, encouraged the CIA to successfully carry out a similar operation in Guatemala a year later. However, many historians argue that dissatisfaction with the reinstalled Shah led directly to the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran.

As for my use of rhetoric, I'll just quote the dictionary and thank you for the compliment.

Rhetoric: 1: the art of speaking or writing effectively: as a : the study of principles and rules of composition formulated by critics of ancient times b: the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

The US's involvement with Operation Ajax caused the rise of the first Islamic state.

Ok, let's take it one step at a time. First of all...you are wrong on claiming that the above was the first Islamic state..... here is some information about the actual first Islamic state.

In simple terms, the first Islamic state established in Medina was based on a social contract, was constitutional in character and the ruler ruled with the explicit written consent of all the citizens of the state. Today we need to emulate Muhammad (PBUH) and draw up our own constitutions, historically and temporally specific to our conditions and based on the eternal and transcendent principles revealed by Allah (SWT).

Excerpted from.
islamic-world.net...

Originally posted by smallpeeps
From Wikipedia:

Operation Ajax was the first time the Central Intelligence Agency orchestrated a plot to overthrow a democratically-elected government. The success of this operation, and its relatively low cost, encouraged the CIA to successfully carry out a similar operation in Guatemala a year later. However, many historians argue that dissatisfaction with the reinstalled Shah led directly to the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran.

Back then the U.S.S.R. was trying to get a hold of the Middle East anyway they could. We were fighting the Russians in many ways, and the choices we had back then was to have a government which was controlled and which had ties to the communist state, or put another government which would be friendlier towards us, we chose the second option.... As you have said before, the Russians were waging a war in Afghanistan around this time, as they also tried to take control of that Middle East country.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
As for my use of rhetoric, I'll just quote the dictionary and thank you for the compliment.

Rhetoric: 1: the art of speaking or writing effectively: as a : the study of principles and rules of composition formulated by critics of ancient times b: the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion.

Actually as to your use of rhetoric I was thinking more to the likes of the following.

3. palaver, hot air, empty words, empty talk, rhetoric -- (loud and confused and empty talk; "mere rhetoric")

Excerpted from.
www.cogsci.princeton.edu...


[edit on 4-2-2005 by Muaddib]

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