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ATS: A Military-Governmental-Industrial Conspiracy?

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posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 01:53 PM
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Carlyle's purchase of Medpointe Pharmaceuticals-one of like 3 companies allowed to sell potassium iodide for the treatment of thyroid cancer in the event of a nuke attack,should give you a feel for where their interests lie


Now that's some scary [edit]!!!

-raven


[edit on 27-1-2005 by Spectre]




posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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How about this one,



Last year, then-congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga.) even suggested that Carlyle's and Bush's ties to the Middle East made them somehow complicitous in the Sept. 11 terror attacks. While her comments were widely dismissed as irresponsible, the publicity highlighted Carlyle's increasingly notorious reputation. Internet sites with headlines such as "The Axis of Corporate Evil" purport to link Carlyle to everything from Enron to al Qaeda.


Now how about that, that is scary alright.

Let me post the link in case I am called a mole again by Muaddib for bringing the realities of the bush dirty secrets that are not so secret after all.


www.washingtonpost.com...


How will President George W. Bush personally make millions (if not billions) from the War on Terror and Iraq? The old fashioned way. He'll inherit it.
Meet The Carlyle Group



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow

Marg provided references, including: the Washington Post, Texans for Public Justice, the American Free Press, and American Prospects.

IMO - You're playing a silly game, barely sophmoric.


She did not provide links soficrow...............

You are a reporter, you should know better than call anyone names for asking for links.....

[edit on 27-1-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by soficrow

Marg provided references, including: the Washington Post, Texans for Public Justice, the American Free Press, and American Prospects.

IMO - You're playing a silly game, barely sophmoric.


She did not provide links soficrow...............



Many people don't provide links when they post in discussions - most are not reporters - Marg provided references with dates and titles. IMO - you were attacking her credibility on a trumped up technicality...




You are a reporter, you should know better than call anyone names for asking for links.....

[edit on 27-1-2005 by Muaddib]



I didn't call you names - I questioned your behavior and named your action. ...POINT being - I respect you, but don't respect some of your actions. ...That is an important distinction.

When you call people names and make fun of them, as you did Marg:


Maudib

....ya, you are here trying to blend in a conspiracy site, but you are just a mole.....


I am pretty sure you won't even realize what I mean....



...you are trying to belittle her, not question the credibility of her arguments or actions. ...It's disrespectful, and not very civilized. It doesn't contribute productively - and it's your credibility that suffers, not hers.

Granted, some people play the "manners" game very well and manage some clever shots that are just as disrespectful as name-calling.... But they just impress the kids - they don't really get away with it.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 06:07 PM
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posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
How about this one,



Last year, then-congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga.) even suggested that Carlyle's and Bush's ties to the Middle East made them somehow complicitous in the Sept. 11 terror attacks. While her comments were widely dismissed as irresponsible, the publicity highlighted Carlyle's increasingly notorious reputation. Internet sites with headlines such as "The Axis of Corporate Evil" purport to link Carlyle to everything from Enron to al Qaeda.


Now how about that, that is scary alright.

www.washingtonpost.com...¬Found=true


How will President George W. Bush personally make millions (if not billions) from the War on Terror and Iraq? The old fashioned way. He'll inherit it.
Meet The Carlyle Group


Marg, I do not have a degree in business.

From the same link as you site above and the same article I found this:


Times are changing, though. It's no longer valid to assume that Carlyle's golden roll of all-stars automatically opens doors in certain parts of the world, says Youssef M. Ibrahim of the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. "George Bush junior is kind of screwing his father up, slowly but surely, in terms of securing relationships in the region," Ibrahim says of the Mideast. The current administration's support for Israel, its hostility
toward Iraq and its rocky dealings with the Saudi royal family have soured business and political relationships alike, he says.


The following sites were my source for my continuing remarks.

The Center for Public Integrity
Outsourcing the Pentagon
www.public-i.org...

Defense Dept. web site
Procurement Guidance and Data
www.dior.whs.mil...


marg6043 posted on 1/26/2005 at 08:38 AM Post Number: 1120933 (post id: 1142826)

The carlyle group may not be an agency of the govrnment and may not be a in the
military, but the do profit from the defense budget.

In others words wars are very good for this company.



marg6043 posted on 1/26/2005 at 11:07 AM Post Number: 1121392 (post id: 1143285)

Carlyle group owns our defense budget, and their dirt is all over their endeviours.



The following show the top five defense contractors during the years 1998-2003 and the comparison showing Carlyle Group and Halliburton Co.

Lockheed Martin - $94,056,641,059
Boeing Co. - $81,645,655,400
Raytheon Co. - $39,904,717,897
Northrop Grumman - $33, 829,847, 656
General Dynamics - $33,280,959,821

Carlyle Group - $9,334,962,462
Halliburton Co. - $6,768,728,331

I guess "war" was better for these other companies.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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Mahree I am very well aware of those companies, after all my husband works for one of them he just got a several thousand dollar increased in pay.


Hey war are good business.

But the Carlyle group is a monopoly, and the link with the Bush is what it makes it so bad.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
..................
Marg may have trouble with the language Maudib - but she handles concepts and abstraction exceptionally well...

Some of your posts do contribute value, maudib, but petty games and insults don't qualify. They interfere with intelligent discussion.


What insult are you talking about soficrow?..... You obviously did not see the allegory i made......

Let me be more specific so perhaps you will see what I meant...

There are allegations that the Carlyle Group and president Bush have something to do with 9/11, among other things, because through the Carlyle Group they seem to have made some business with countries that are supposed to be our allies....

Marg's husband works for a sister company, or underling (?) of the Carlyle... is Marg and her husband part of this evil conspiracy because of their connection to the Carlyle Group?....

Of course big companies will make business with what are supposed to be allies of ours. But does that make them part of every shady deal that every national of that country or certain groups of that country, in this case Saudi Arabia, might be doing?.....

This is pretty much the same thing as to the supposed connection between president Bush and Osama because the US has done and is doing business, along with many other countries, with family of Bin Laden that have nothing to do with what this crazed idiot of Osama has been doing....

Anyways....now you are accusing me that only some of my posts contribute value....why, are you hurt that i could so easily debunk your theory that Carlyle is a "military-industrial" complex?.... They might have some shady business, I am not certain yet since I have not seen any clear connections yet but they are not a military complex...

There are some people in here that jump to conclusions too fast and in the past have made many wild claims that have been discovered not to be true.

Now, to go back to the link that Marg gave perhaps you did not read everything in that link.


But even if you believe the conspiracy theories that Carlyle luminaries are pulling strings on the company's behalf, there is evidence they haven't been very good at it lately. The current Bush administration has sloughed off advice from Baker calling for restraint in the Middle East, where Carlyle has investors, and from former president Bush on the need for calm on the Korean peninsula, where Carlyle owns banks. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld even canceled the $11 billion Crusader howitzer program, a crucial contract for the Carlyle-owned United Defense company.


Excerpted from link Marg gave.
www.washingtonpost.com...

Is president Bush going against the "supposed evil mandates" of the Carlyle Group as we set against some of those countries which the Carlyle Group make business with?.....


I asked Marg to provide the links....and then I made the allegory to see if she would realize that because someone might be working for a company, or has business with certain groups, it doesn't mean they are in all the shady or evil deeds of all those people or groups that have some sort of connection.

BTW, do notice that at the end of my post I said the following....


I am pretty sure you won't even realize what I mean....


---edited to correct errors and add comment---






[edit on 27-1-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Mahree I am very well aware of those companies, after all my husband works for one of them he just got a several thousand dollar increased in pay.


Hey war are good business.

But the Carlyle group is a monopoly, and the link with the Bush is what it makes it so bad.


Marg, Sounds like you are pretty happy with your husbands raise. Maybe you should be thankful that your husband has a good job.

www.thecarlylegroup.com...

Here is the link to the Carlyle Group. They seem to be well diversified. Defense contracts are not their only business.
So if the Carlyle Group and Halliburton come way down the list of Evil Corporations making money from defense contracts, how much influence does Bush really have?

I guess I don't understand how The Carlyle Group is a monopoly?

edit for link

[edit on 1/27/2005 by Mahree]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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The Carlyle group is more than defense they are involve in many other business around.

If you had read the links around from other member it show that they are very diversify.

Occurs we only know them more for their links to the defensed department.

By the way Muaddib I never say I am in any government conspiracy perhaps you are the one in the conspiracy by way the links of Bush and the Carlyle group are well known and so the links to the bin-laden family and the saud family.

The problem is the link of the Carlyle group and the Bush family itself.

So stop twisting with empty worlds and read the links posted on this thread. They are can be verify and track.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 07:16 PM
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Quote:
"Lockheed Martin - $94,056,641,059
Boeing Co. - $81,645,655,400
Raytheon Co. - $39,904,717,897
Northrop Grumman - $33, 829,847, 656
General Dynamics - $33,280,959,821

Carlyle Group - $9,334,962,462
Halliburton Co. - $6,768,728,331

I guess War was better for these other companies."

Wow even more people join in on the Party! You have succeeded in showing what a Big Problem this is - Yes Obviously more than two Companies are involved & from the looks of it a Hell of a LOT of MONEY!! Good Business to be in indeed! Does this explain the constant drum roll for War - not just in Iraq - but just for War in general - any were & all the time! Would you care to explain how many Republicans currently in the Government have ties/contacts to these corporations?

I believe that it was Senator McCain that called "War Profiteering" a Problem. I call it a SCANDAL!


[edit on 27-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The Carlyle group is more than defense they are involve in many other business around.

If you had read the links around from other member it show that they are very diversify.


Yes, we know this, others and I myself provided such information, but what is the point of this? Many businesses have "other business around," what exactly does that prove?


Originally posted by marg6043
Occurs we only know them more for their links to the defensed department.


The biggest customer of Microsoft is the Airforce, which is part of our defense department...so what does this prove?



Originally posted by marg6043
By the way Muaddib I never say I am in any government conspiracy perhaps you are the one in the conspiracy by way the links of Bush and the Carlyle group are well known and so the links to the bin-laden family and the saud family.


First of all, you have stated a couple of times in the past that your husband works for an underling company of the Carlyle Group... I did not say it, you did. You still don't seem to understand what I am trying to convey to you.

You say you and your husband have nothing to do with any conspiracy theories right? but yet he does work for an underling of the Carlyle Group. You, through your husband, have a connection to the Carlyle Group, so according to your own assertions, you and your husband should be part of the "evil conspiracy"......

I on the other hand don't work for any underling company, or for the Carlyle Group, neither have i worked for any of them in the past.



Originally posted by marg6043
The problem is the link of the Carlyle group and the Bush family itself.


How exactly is that a problem? rich people have investments in big companies....



Originally posted by marg6043
So stop twisting with empty worlds and read the links posted on this thread. They are can be verify and track.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by marg6043]


I beg your pardon....you are telling me to stop "twisting with empty words and read the links"?..... Perhaps you should do that yourself Marg.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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The thing is that Carlyle is not a company is a firm, they are not like the companies that are actually builders.

Carlyle does not build Carlyle owns, sell and merge the companies that do the defense orders on the contracts that will built equipments.

It is very difficult to understand the do not build or make anything they just owns and invest the defense department money into the other companies.

The companies that have the biggest budget are the companies that actually get the contracts for the goods.

After Carlyle invest the money actually first.

Now since the 9/11 Carlyle has become one of the most powerful firms in the market.

They make money of the money that the administration allocates for the defense.



[edit on 27-1-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The Carlyle group is more than defense they are involve in many other business around.


I thought this topic was about the military, defense department and how some corporations are profiting from this.

You should have looked at the link I posted above. Besides the defense contracts it shows the rest of the portfolio,

Here is the link again.
www.thecarlylegroup.com...



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Carlyle has been very good at diversifiying their portfolio, to included other sectors of the goverment like telecomunications and banking.

It has targeted high ranking officials to work for the firm as you can see on his board.

Now when you have an expresident working for a firm that deals with companies that do government contracts and is making a killing while the expresident son is the acting president now, how do you call that.

Its down low dirty.





"Carlyle would never have gotten to the level that it is at today had it not been for this premeditated commingling of business and politics," said Dan Briody, author of The Iron Triangle: Inside the Secret World of the Carlyle Group, a book that takes a critical look at the rise of the firm.



Before 9/11 Carlyle was a shadow firm in the background with all the right people in places including Bush father.



One of Carlyle's most controversial hirings was of former president Bush to serve as a senior adviser for its "Asia advisory board."

"The fact that George H.W. Bush was working for them while his son was president, while his son, in fact, was dramatically increasing defense spending—that seems to me one of the most blatant conflicts of interests in history," Briody said.



It's that so, the daddy the main man in the company while the son is utilizing our countries tax payer money to icreased budget so his father firm can profit for the defense budget.



Bush—who joined Carlyle in 1998, before his son, George W. Bush, became president—ended his relationship with the firm in October 2003, Ullman told the Center. But that hasn't stopped the former president from continuing to give speeches for Carlyle, which he did at a Shanghai event sponsored by the firm in April 2004.



Yeah the bush empire is something to be desire down low dirty NWO alright.

www.publicintegrity.org...

If anybody here can discredit this and tell that is a lie go ahead I will be waiting with more.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The thing is that Carlyle is not a company is a firm, they are not like the companies that are actually builders.

Carlyle does not build Carlyle owns, sell and merge the companies that do the defense orders on the contracts that will built equipments.


Yes, there are many private equity firms that do this, how exactly is this bad or evil? Private companies do have mergers, this is normal part of business. The problem would be if we ever do what Putin is doing in Russia, cracking down private firms and merging them to the firms controlled by the Russian government. That is a true military-industrial complex, the same can be said of China's PLA. In the US, our government hires private firms.



Originally posted by marg6043
It is very difficult to understand the do not build or make anything they just owns and invest the defense department money into the other companies.


Why exactly is it difficult to understand that they don't build anything, and why is this a problem?

This is what equity firms do Marg, is not illegal or evil....

But how exactly does the Carlyle group owns the defense department money Marg? The defense department might have business with the CArlyle group, but how is the money of the defense department owned by Carlyle Group?



Originally posted by marg6043
The companies that have the biggest budget are the companies that actually get the contracts for the goods.

After Carlyle invest the money actually first.

Now since the 9/11 Carlyle has become one of the most powerful firms in the market.

They make money of the money that the administration allocates for the defense.
[edit on 27-1-2005 by marg6043]


Our department of defense invest and have business with many powerful firms and corporation Marg, why should they do business with equity firms or corporations that are not strong enough to take on a job? This is also done in daily businesses Marg.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Our department of defense invest and have business with many powerful firms and corporation Marg, why should they do business with equity firms or corporations that are not strong enough to take on a job? This is also done in daily businesses Marg.


Its nice to take only what we want and ignore the rest, ha,

Really muaddib when you have a firm that hit the jackpot on 9/11 with a member in the top ranking that is the father of the president of the USA, I wonder what you call that. I call it dirty.

But I see is nice to ignore what we don't want to face.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Carlyle has been very good at diversifiying their portfolio, to included other sectors of the goverment like telecomunications and banking.


The topic of this thread is military, government, and Corporations.


It has targeted high ranking officials to work for the firm as you can see on his board.


It is difficult for me to understand why you think getting the best people to work for the investors is wrong or bad business.


Now when you have an expresident working for a firm that deals with companies that do government contracts and is making a killing while the expresident son is the acting president now, how do you call that.

Its down low dirty.


I call it pretty good business and I wish I had a share in that group.

Now, you take the other 5 top Defense Corporations. Are you aware that they also have many investors? Why would anyone invest in a company if they didn't think they were going to get a good return on their investment. Also, as you have noted, these companies employ many people at high salaries.

I am aware that Carlyle is an Venture Capital investment Group. So, they invest in the companies that supply the product or service. You spoke of them taking over other companies. I did see that and then they made these companies profitable and put more people to work. And then, they are able to make their investors happy.

I have used your link for the remaining quote.

www.publicintegrity.org...


The Carlyle Group acquired controlling interests in several underperforming defense contractors, installed its own management teams and revitalized the companies, in part by landing big Pentagon contracts. Then, they sold the contractors to other investors for a large profit.

"There have always been [private equities] that went in with management and bankrolled management," said Stuart McCutchan, editor of Defense Mergers & Acquisitions. "What Carlyle has done differently is they have taken it to a new level both in terms of size and in terms of being committed to an entire sector."

"Carlyle is the biggest single success in Washington of a venture capital firm," Dr. Loren B. Thompson Jr., a national security expert at the libertarian Lexington Institute, said.


Success in business and making money is an American Dream.

If Carlyle was the only corporation making money from the war or ex president Bush was the only person benefiting your arguments might be more credible.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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I've read this thread with great interest and I hope the arguments continue. Maybe we'll all learn a little more.

While I'm not entirely convinced that Carlyle is the evil group that some suggest, the conflicts of interest are blatant and well, quite alarming to me.

Mahree's last post made me ponder the rabid pursuit of the American Dream by some, and its consequences for the Dreams of the rest of the world. War and conflict is immensely profitable for Carlyle and all the other absurdly wealthy corporations mentioned. It is unfortunate and WRONG that those who greatly influence policy decisions are so intricately tied up in these groups. The insatiable thirst for money and power is destroying all of us. I think the cost is too high. What to do?

While marg and Seraphim and others may not be able to prove to the American Dreamers that Carlyle is evil, I for one am grateful for their effort. It gives me hope.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by Belgarath

While marg and Seraphim and others may not be able to prove to the American Dreamers that Carlyle is evil, I for one am grateful for their effort. It gives me hope.



I am feel very humble with your post, I am also happy to be able to bring some light to the realities of the power in our nation.

Profiting in war when is only of the few of the elite it shows you who really push the strings in our great nation.

Muaddib thanks for encouraging me to keep on searching with your rebuttals.

And Mahree thanks for your contribution also.

We all love our great nation in many ways.



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