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Torture in Iraq still routine, report says

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posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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Even with Sadam gone a recent report released says torture is not only still going on, but is used routinely in Iraq.

BAGHDAD - Twenty months after Saddam Hussein's government was toppled and its torture chambers unlocked, Iraqis are again being routinely beaten, hung by their wrists and shocked with electrical wires, according to a report by a human rights organization.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

According to the report by a human rights organization many of the same people still hold the same jobs that they held under Sadam. Unless they are removed from their postions this will probably keep happening,the US should step in and force them out of these postions. It should be a priority to clear Iraq of this kind of inhumanity!




posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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BS...I think we should send those human rights people to Iraq to let them see how the situation is like... In these parts of the world you need a good old fashion ass beating to get things done and extract information to save lives. Human rights cannot be inserted everywhere, it just doesnt work. What ever happend to that Army officer who intimidated that hostage by putting a gun to his head, and ended up finding out when the next amush attack was going to be, saved the lives of his men. And they did what? Courtmarshall him? What a horse cart of crap.

Dont get me wrong, there is a time and place for rights, but now in Iraq where innocent people are dyeing is nor the time and the place for this. If you need to torture a terrorist to find out where the next suicide bombing is going to be .. then by all means... I see no problem what so ever with it, and neither do the iraqi's them selves. And dont give me the cliched answer " we are no better than saddam hussian" mumbo jumbo either. He used torture on his own civilians to suppress them. If we torture terrorists, we do so to save Iraqi and American lives not because we like to. Oh no terrorists are being tortured... cry me a river...

[edit on 25-1-2005 by RealisticPatriot]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 01:55 PM
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Ummmm, I think that report actually was referring to the Iraqi police and had nothing to do with US forces. Just wanted to clear that up, it was way at the bottom of the article.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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And still, police in 3rd world NEED to operate that way. If we introduce our ways of criminal justice there, the criminals will OVERRUN that place. I know somone who was a cop in a third world nation. He tells me the methods are brutal but extremely effective. Cases get solved with lightening speed. Its a rarity somone gets beat up for nothing. They dont go around the neighborhood in a truck round up random people and bring them back to the station and go to town on them. Most of theese people had it coming...



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by RealisticPatriot
And still, police in 3rd world NEED to operate that way. If we introduce our ways of criminal justice there, the criminals will OVERRUN that place. I know somone who was a cop in a third world nation. He tells me the methods are brutal but extremely effective. Cases get solved with lightening speed.


Its pretty easy to solve a case when you tell the suspect you wont stop torturing him till he confesses.

Give me a few hours/days with you and I will get a signed confession to the Kennedy Assassination, the bombing of the WTC and being the Anti-Christ.

All three cases will be solved lightening fast.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:13 PM
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I wouldn't know if they had it coming or not. I have never met any of them and I do not know the individual situations.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:14 PM
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I think it is an effective method for the police to use. The germans do the same type of things and they have a very low crime rate,almost nonexistant. Maybe americans can learn from this?



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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And still, police in 3rd world NEED to operate that way


If that's the case, why is the US in Iraq in the first place? First it was WMD, now it to overthrow the tirany that was the Iraqi leadership. Bush has stated many times that they had to get rid of Husein because he was a cruel dictator who tortured his citizens. Now that Saddam is gone, and the torturing still goes on, which you think is ok, what exactly is the point of getting rid of him???



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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Brutality and torture would never and should never be accepted in any way shape or form, we should be above such heinious practice. Civilized people should act and treat people in a civilized manner, beating and torture may be effective but it has no place in todays world.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Its pretty easy to solve a case when you tell the suspect you wont stop torturing him till he confesses.

Give me a few hours/days with you and I will get a signed confession to the Kennedy Assassination, the bombing of the WTC and being the Anti-Christ.

All three cases will be solved lightening fast.


After reading these I could not stop laughing, Hurray for Amuck tell it like it is.

Increadible how some have not idea what are the results of brutality, actually they can be everything you want as long as the victim of brutality is alive.

Death people tell's not lies.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by RealisticPatriot
And still, police in 3rd world NEED to operate that way. If we introduce our ways of criminal justice there, the criminals will OVERRUN that place. I know somone who was a cop in a third world nation. He tells me the methods are brutal but extremely effective. Cases get solved with lightening speed. Its a rarity somone gets beat up for nothing. They dont go around the neighborhood in a truck round up random people and bring them back to the station and go to town on them. Most of theese people had it coming...


I see what you are saying.

Saddam was doing a good job and should be comended for his actions in power. He was doing things the way they should be done.

OK......



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:07 PM
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Well, they do not wear uniforms of any army.
Geneva Convention as follows:
Sources:www.unhchr.ch...
PART I
GENERAL PROVISIONS
Article 1
The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and to ensure respect for the present Convention in all circumstances.
Article 2
In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peace time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.
The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance.

Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof.

Civilians protection
Source:www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
Art. 4. Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.

Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it. Nationals of a neutral State who find themselves in the territory of a belligerent State, and nationals of a co-belligerent State, shall not be regarded as protected persons while the State of which they are nationals has normal diplomatic representation in the State in whose hands they are.

The provisions of Part II are, however, wider in application, as defined in Article 13.

Still reading my brains out. Long form is a killer..........





[edit on 25-1-2005 by GI_WOLVES]



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by RealisticPatriot
And still, police in 3rd world NEED to operate that way. If we introduce our ways of criminal justice there, the criminals will OVERRUN that place. I know somone who was a cop in a third world nation. He tells me the methods are brutal but extremely effective. Cases get solved with lightening speed.


Its pretty easy to solve a case when you tell the suspect you wont stop torturing him till he confesses.

Give me a few hours/days with you and I will get a signed confession to the Kennedy Assassination, the bombing of the WTC and being the Anti-Christ.

All three cases will be solved lightening fast.

agreed that 'if you beat a guy long enough hell tell you who started the chicago fire, but that dont necasarily make it true'. however, if i was a cop, and i LIVED there, and i caught some militant punk with a kilo of c4 on my watch, ill tell you what. i wasnt born yesterday, i would know he had connections, and those connections have names. would i rather rearange this guys face and get some info or let him go?



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 07:45 AM
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Just a slightly off-topic question here:
It seems that though some are having major grievances with this, the norm in and with Middle Eastern and Southeast Asian countries is the routine use of abuse and torture: Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, Jordon, Yeman, Indonesia, Burma, Uzbekistan, China, etc, etc. Any problems with them and should the US tell them also to stop using torture, or else?


For the U.S. to step in and tell Iraq would be almost asking for a slap in the face wouldn't it? I mean gee, they'll just say, "this is or will be our country soon, and as such, we will do what we have to, so bug off," or "Who are you to be telling us not to commit abuses and torture when you have done so, yourself." Seems that some in this thread condemned the US for what they alledgedly had/is doing and yet, want the US now to step in and tell the Iraqis, who will soon be governing their own country, to stop such uses, when Iraq could easily point out what I mentioned at the beginning initially.....

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.





seekerof

[edit on 26-1-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by klooney
I think it is an effective method for the police to use. The germans do the same type of things and they have a very low crime rate,almost nonexistant. Maybe americans can learn from this?


Not with the liberals screaming and all this "criminals rights" we have...our CRJ system is faily weak and isnt very effective because of this...



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by RealisticPatriot
If we torture terrorists, we do so to save Iraqi and American lives not because we like to.


Charles Graner seemed to like it.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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He was a bit twisted...he sexually tortured dudes...not for info...for fun...a strange cat...



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Just a slightly off-topic question here:
It seems that though some are having major grievances with this, the norm in and with Middle Eastern and Southeast Asian countries is the routine use of abuse and torture: Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, Jordon, Yeman, Indonesia, Burma, Uzbekistan, China, etc, etc. Any problems with them and should the US tell them also to stop using torture, or else?


For the U.S. to step in and tell Iraq would be almost asking for a slap in the face wouldn't it? I mean gee, they'll just say, "this is or will be our country soon, and as such, we will do what we have to, so bug off," or "Who are you to be telling us not to commit abuses and torture when you have done so, yourself." Seems that some in this thread condemned the US for what they alledgedly had/is doing and yet, want the US now to step in and tell the Iraqis, who will soon be governing their own country, to stop such uses, when Iraq could easily point out what I mentioned at the beginning initially.....

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.



exactly... who are we to tell the world how to run their countries in the first place. Let us run our country and let them run theirs (too late for that now) Unless there is a clear and present danger to american citizens, blatent attack on american allies, or there is mass genocide, i think the US should be a bit more isolationist and worry about the problems at home rather than 'the poor criminals' in other countries. Shoot, if we would have minded our buisness in the first place terrorism wouldnt be our problem would it? We medel into other peoples affairs where we are not wanted or needed, and for that we will reap what we sow. (A side note to spread of democracy and human rights) Why should we impose democracy in a place where the people dont want it and are not ready to die for it. The ONLY REASON why it worked here is because we wanted it, fought for it, and died for it. Look all around at other democracies that sprouted, most have been utter failures. Just because it works here (even here this system is failing) doesnt mean it will work every where. If we impose democracy on others I see us as tyranical and agressive for doing so. If others want democracy let them do it themselves.


[edit on 26-1-2005 by Seekerof]

[edit on 26-1-2005 by RealisticPatriot]

[edit on 26-1-2005 by RealisticPatriot]

[edit on 26-1-2005 by RealisticPatriot]



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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All I can say is that if life was fair, the United States would start torturing its' own citizens in order to extract confessions from them.


And that day will come, the way things are going. I can only hope that those who believe that torture is acceptable are the first to have their hands and feet broken, be castrated, and decide then if it's cool.



jako



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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If I thought indescriminately killing innocent people was acceptable behavior, carried out plans to do so, and got caught, then I deserve the 3rd degree treatment you mentioned above.



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