Brexit court defeat for UK government

a reply to: SprocketUK

She has lived here since age ten, educated here, married here, has kids here, set up her own company here. Yet you still think she is a foreigner 'messing around with our country'.

I am going to go with uncommitted's description of racist comment being bang on the money.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

Not every thing is waysist

I have a problem with su per rich foreigners messing around with the country we all have to live in.

If your twisted worldview means it's racist to decry that then so what? If I decided to move to Scotland and campaign against Scottish Independence, I expect Indie minded Scots would hold the opinion that I should bugger off.

Some of my language may at times be a result of my increased blood pressure when I see people cheering this on, not because they care about democracy, but because they are desperate to remain in the EU but so what? It's human to get mad at stuff.

Maybe I'm just disappointed because previously you seemed able to carry an argument rather than simply come over a bit sneery...

Ranting again.

How do you know if people care or don't care about democracy? Are you going to be one of Farage's 100,000 marching on the Supreme Court to try and mob handedly make them ignore law?

None of this is to stop Brexit - that's the Mail and the Express telling you that.

If I come over as sneery to you because like others on this thread I believe you have misunderstood the actual facts then sorry, your problem.

Your comment attempting to excuse the phrase

I find it ironic that the woman leading the case was a bloody Ghanian

Doesn't wash, but then it's not me that you have convince of that.

a reply to: uncommitted

That wasnt ranting.
You need to stop being such a limp wristed lefty.



So. No reason from you then. Just because. Classic!

You and sceptic are perfect examples of why calling people racists is like blowing a raspberry these days.

Oh Dear..

Martin McGuinness has refused to rule out whether his party will reverse its abstentionist policy in order for its MPs to vote against Article 50 in Westminster, it has been reported.

“But one thing is for sure and that is I have no faith in the British Parliament supporting the democratically expressed wishes of the people of the north to remain in Europe. “That is our position and it is a very clear position. We will all obviously have to await the outcome of what happens in the time ahead and deal with that and that’s precisely what we will do.”

link

Crivvens..

Nicola Sturgeon has launched a legal ambush on the UK Government as it seeks to overturn a court ruling which forces it to let MPs vote on Theresa May’s Brexit plans. The Scottish First Minister has ordered the nation’s most senior law officer, the Lord Advocate, to lodge a formal application at the Supreme Court to intervene in the case. Ms Sturgeon said it "simply cannot be right" that rights linked to membership of the European Union "can be removed by the UK Government on the say-so of a Prime Minister without parliamentary debate, scrutiny or consent".

Link

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Frankly I think you are all insane.
Banging on about the primacy of Parliament.
A place populated by people who's entire existence is about feathering their own nests.


This isn't an argument about parliament versus May or the tories. It's parliament versus the people.

A hell of a dangerous precedent imo.

Of course, maybe you can't see that.

No - May is using the Royal Prerogative - her approach is going back to times before parliament with her taking the role of monarch.

This is in the uncodified constitution, it's been law for centuries that due democratic process be followed (though I agree the Lords are a major barrier to this).

This is quite a good source for the information and laws - icon.oxfordjournals.org... - personally I recommend Politics UK by Jones and Norton, British Politics by Leach and Coxhaul and another callled something like a guide to democracy in the UK (huge blue blook about 1500 long, can't find it as was swatting wasps with it last night)

I don't mean those recommendations in a patronising way - I disagree with youor views but you'er usually researched and I myself found out absolutely loads from them - especially the last one as it has around 70 pages on roral prerogative alone - and imagine the debaet on Lords and Sovereignty is something you'd enjoy reading.

I've had a read. And a couple of re reads.

One thing that strikes me in all this is that this proposed use of prerogative powers has the backing of a majority vote in the referendum.

Do you not think that this adds legitimacy in this instance in the way that perhaps, the GCHQ and Islanders cases lacked?

I'd be interested in your reasons if you don't think so.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

That wasnt ranting.
You need to stop being such a limp wristed lefty.



So. No reason from you then. Just because. Classic!

You and sceptic are perfect examples of why calling people racists is like blowing a raspberry these days.

No, it's more that when you make racist comments people might just think you are maybe just a little bit racist.

However I am sure there are non racist ways you could have meant your Ghanian comment or the one about foreigners ( referring to someone who has lived here since age 10)

Feel free to share them...

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Sturgeon is wasting her time.

She dosen't represent The U.K. Government.

The U.K. Government took us into Europe. The U.K. Government will take us out.

Pure opportunism by The Poison Dwarf.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

That wasnt ranting.
You need to stop being such a limp wristed lefty.



So. No reason from you then. Just because. Classic!

You and sceptic are perfect examples of why calling people racists is like blowing a raspberry these days.

No, it's more that when you make racist comments people might just think you are maybe just a little bit racist.

However I am sure there are non racist ways you could have meant your Ghanian comment or the one about foreigners ( referring to someone who has lived here since age 10)

Feel free to share them...

Frankly, I couldn't care less anymore. YOU dodge the real issue and pursue this one fella.

Just like you always do when you can't carry the real argument.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

That wasnt ranting.
You need to stop being such a limp wristed lefty.



So. No reason from you then. Just because. Classic!

You and sceptic are perfect examples of why calling people racists is like blowing a raspberry these days.

No, it's more that when you make racist comments people might just think you are maybe just a little bit racist.

However I am sure there are non racist ways you could have meant your Ghanian comment or the one about foreigners ( referring to someone who has lived here since age 10)

Feel free to share them...

Frankly, I couldn't care less anymore. YOU dodge the real issue and pursue this one fella.

Just like you always do when you can't carry the real argument.

What exactly is the real issue? That you can't handle the fact that our parliament should actually have a vote on this?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

That wasnt ranting.
You need to stop being such a limp wristed lefty.



So. No reason from you then. Just because. Classic!

You and sceptic are perfect examples of why calling people racists is like blowing a raspberry these days.

No, it's more that when you make racist comments people might just think you are maybe just a little bit racist.

However I am sure there are non racist ways you could have meant your Ghanian comment or the one about foreigners ( referring to someone who has lived here since age 10)

Feel free to share them...

Frankly, I couldn't care less anymore. YOU dodge the real issue and pursue this one fella.

Just like you always do when you can't carry the real argument.

What exactly is the real issue? That you can't handle the fact that our parliament should actually have a vote on this?

Ain't you got shortbread to make or something?

a reply to: SprocketUK

This might be a good thing especially since no viable plans regarding Brexit have been drawn up well thought out.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SprocketUK

This might be a good thing especially since no viable plans regarding Brexit have been drawn up well thought out.

More accurately no post Brexit plans were drawn up.

Withdrawal ought to be very simple.

What comes after is what requires the work and I'd say that would be when Parliament really would need to be involved, since signing the country up to treaties is the domain of those elected to represent us.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

That wasnt ranting.
You need to stop being such a limp wristed lefty.



So. No reason from you then. Just because. Classic!

You and sceptic are perfect examples of why calling people racists is like blowing a raspberry these days.

No, it's more that when you make racist comments people might just think you are maybe just a little bit racist.

However I am sure there are non racist ways you could have meant your Ghanian comment or the one about foreigners ( referring to someone who has lived here since age 10)

Feel free to share them...

Frankly, I couldn't care less anymore. YOU dodge the real issue and pursue this one fella.

Just like you always do when you can't carry the real argument.

What exactly is the real issue? That you can't handle the fact that our parliament should actually have a vote on this?

Ain't you got shortbread to make or something?

No I am too busy hunting haggis and playing bagpipes.

Anything actually relavent to say?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

That wasnt ranting.
You need to stop being such a limp wristed lefty.



So. No reason from you then. Just because. Classic!

You and sceptic are perfect examples of why calling people racists is like blowing a raspberry these days.

No, it's more that when you make racist comments people might just think you are maybe just a little bit racist.

However I am sure there are non racist ways you could have meant your Ghanian comment or the one about foreigners ( referring to someone who has lived here since age 10)

Feel free to share them...

Frankly, I couldn't care less anymore. YOU dodge the real issue and pursue this one fella.

Just like you always do when you can't carry the real argument.

What exactly is the real issue? That you can't handle the fact that our parliament should actually have a vote on this?

Ain't you got shortbread to make or something?

No I am too busy hunting haggis and playing bagpipes.

Anything actually relavent to say?

Have a look above your post maybe?

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SprocketUK

This might be a good thing especially since no viable plans regarding Brexit have been drawn up well thought out.

Withdrawal ought to be very simple.

Words actually fail me.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SprocketUK

This might be a good thing especially since no viable plans regarding Brexit have been drawn up well thought out.

Withdrawal ought to be very simple.

Words actually fail me.

Are you thinking in terms of double entendres? OR do you really think enacting article 50 is some kind of moon shot level of difficulty?

Really, drafting a note to the EU confirming art 50 is the simplest thing ever, isn't it?

The 2 years of negotiations and the debates on the terms of those negotiations that follow will be a royal pain, I'm sure, but pressing the button? No.

Unless I'm missing something and enacting article 50 requires something other than mere notification.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SprocketUK

This might be a good thing especially since no viable plans regarding Brexit have been drawn up well thought out.

Withdrawal ought to be very simple.

Words actually fail me.

Are you thinking in terms of double entendres? OR do you really think enacting article 50 is some kind of moon shot level of difficulty?

Really, drafting a note to the EU confirming art 50 is the simplest thing ever, isn't it?

The 2 years of negotiations and the debates on the terms of those negotiations that follow will be a royal pain, I'm sure, but pressing the button? No.

Unless I'm missing something and enacting article 50 requires something other than mere notification.

That isn't what you said. You said withdrawal ought to be very simple. As if somehow extracting ourselves from 40 years of economic and political integration is a cakewalk.


Tell me this, if May was planning a soft brexit (maintain 4 freedoms, single market, customs union , etc) then would you still be happy for her to be given free rein?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SprocketUK

This might be a good thing especially since no viable plans regarding Brexit have been drawn up well thought out.

Withdrawal ought to be very simple.

Words actually fail me.

Are you thinking in terms of double entendres? OR do you really think enacting article 50 is some kind of moon shot level of difficulty?

Really, drafting a note to the EU confirming art 50 is the simplest thing ever, isn't it?

The 2 years of negotiations and the debates on the terms of those negotiations that follow will be a royal pain, I'm sure, but pressing the button? No.

Unless I'm missing something and enacting article 50 requires something other than mere notification.

That isn't what you said. You said withdrawal ought to be very simple. As if somehow extracting ourselves from 40 years of economic and political integration is a cakewalk.


Tell me this, if May was planning a soft brexit (maintain 4 freedoms, single market, customs union , etc) then would you still be happy for her to be given free rein?

Hmm, poor choice of words on my part in retrospect.


No, purely because that wasn't what the referendum was fought on, was it?

This soft or hard Brexit thing is a sham.

It would be pulling out part way which isn't actually leaving.

At least hitting art 50 and then deciding what follows with parliament would honour the spiritis of the vote imo.
I might not like the subsequent treaties parliament decided to agree with the EU, but at least I wouldn't feel cheated on the initial referendum question and would be able to shrug off any disappointment at my MP voting for a treaty I don't think much of as the result of a straw poll of constituents.

That make sense?

a reply to: SprocketUK

There was no vote on whether we should leave or stay in the single market or customs union. The idea that the vote to leave the EU was a vote to sever all ties is a fantasy.

Leaving the EU is a complex process with a lot if different possible outcomes and is exactly why parliament should be involved right from the start.

Not just as a rubber stamp after the negotiations are complete and it is the to late for any alternative as May seems to want.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Apparently rather a few people who voted for Brexit were not even sure what it would actually entail.

I know it was a hot Google topic the day after the vote. Says a lot really.