Brexit court defeat for UK government

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: SprocketUK

Get real, this isn't a reasonable act, its an attempt to utterly torpedo the referendum result.

Sounds like project fear.

The referendum won't be nullified no matter how much right wingers cry that it will.

require us to agree to open borders and supremacy of EU courts again, in fact they will make us have all the rubbish of the EU (Including paying a fortune in fees) just to have no seat on the council.

And your source for this is what, exactly?

The Express?
Tories?

Thin Air?

Do you not listen to what pro eu politicians say when they are on telly? Read their opinion pieces in the press? Follow their tweets?

You'd have to live in a cave to think all this debate is about is rubber stamping the referendum result.


I told you what I think it's about, it's plain you disagree. So what do you think the parliamentary debate will achieve and what the likely result will be?




Just to clarify a bit, when you posted this,

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

a reply to: SprocketUK

The Lib Dems and Labour traitors will be rubbing their hands in glee at the chance to overturn the will of the majority of the people.

You say that like there are no conservatives that won't be doing the same.



Your partisan potshot shows how you truly feel.

I will be quite happy to see the offices of anti referendum MP's firebombed if they eventually get their way and swindle us.

Tell us how you really feel.

Oh, no doubt about it, though the Libs and Labour lot are more vocal in their opposition to respecting the vote.





If I said how I really felt I'd end up on a watch list

I thought you lot were saying Jeremy actually voted Leave?



I'm confident that this is the right decision anyways.





I'd like to know what brexit means.



I didn't vote Leave for your reasons and you didn't vote for mine...

Now it's up to our MPs to discover what majority of their constituents voted for.





Not to mention the irony of us finally having our own High courts make decisions for us now.

I voted for that.





Seems others just paid it lip service.

I am pretty sure he did vote to leave, unlike the vast majority of the PLP which is one of his neverending problems, isn't it?



I voted to leave all the institutions of the EU and start again, afresh.



That is really the only reasonable interpretation of the question on the referendum. We should withdraw from everything, then have proper talks and debates about what the country may wish to sign up for (Market access for instance).



There wasn't a choice between in, out and half out in the referendum was there?

That's because the powers that be never expected Leave to win.

Did you not imagine for a moment that they neither imagined Brexit winning, nor wanted Brexit to win? And that being the case, why would these corrupt bags of meat not do all they could to overturn our will?

I had already posted this and like you I am disgusted. There are a lot of very angry people in this Country and I truly don't think the MP's have any idea how angry, even after the leave result. I'm afraid this ruling could be something that will ignite that anger and it could spill over. I keep seeing lots of comments on lots of newspapers about 5 November. I truly hope things don't boil over. I really feel this Country is on the edge. I'm not a violent person so I would prefer a General Election to sort things out, get rid of a gew traitors that way. Labour will be non-existent if they dont tread carefully (and I have always voted labour but never again).a reply to: SprocketUK

a reply to: SprocketUK

What a sad state of affairs. Same thing happening in the US, the Courts legislate from the bench.

It seems the rotten Globalists will win out regardless of the will of the "people". Sounds like you're stuck with the EU, like it or not.

a reply to: anxiouswens

Sorry mate, I did look.


If this goes ahead, our anger HAS to ignite and manifest itself else they will have the whip hand over generations yet to come.

The political class needs to understand that they will face the consequences of their actions when they attempt to steal for ever, that which they are granted temporarily.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: SprocketUK



What a sad state of affairs. Same thing happening in the US, the Courts legislate from the bench.



It seems the rotten Globalists will win out regardless of the will of the "people". Sounds like you're stuck with the EU, like it or not.

Only if the spine has gone from the English

Most people I know did vote to leave everything! That was the question 'do you want to leave the EU?'. You say you didnt vote to leave the single market but your comments imply otherwise. I appreciate it probably wasnt in your thinking but by saying you want control of borders etc it stands to sense you did vote to leave the single market because we cant control borders etc as the single market depends on freedom of movement and all the other crap that comes with that.

The remainer MP's want to have this debate in Parliament to scrutinise the terms. Basically they want to keep us in the single market which will mean still paying into the EU pot and accepting freedom of movement which is not what the majority voted for and MPs know that regardless of how they pretend they donta reply to: Hazardous1408

a reply to: ScepticScot

I think it is entirely relevant. Throughout the lead up to the brexit vote, brexit voters have been shamed and cajoled into voting stay because if you don't your a racist. The people voted and now it looks like that will be overturned.

Democracy? Hardly, more like we will keep asking till we get the answer we want.

The MP being killed wasn't in poor taste at all....... I'm sure her constituents were supremely happy when they elected her and she made it her sole purpose to represent the Syrian refugees.... Never mind the job she was elected to do..... See the theme?

Every single one should be strung to the nearest lamppost by their neck.

Fxxk this country and fxxk these rulers.

Leaving the EU requires Treaty changes, which are part of UK law - as well as changes to various other facets of UK law.

As UK law changes have to go through Parliament, what did anyone really expect? It was obvious Parliament would have to ratify this before Article 50 can be triggered - it is basic UK Parliamentary procedure.

Seriously, the faux outrage at this stage is laughable - just like those bemoaning the rising cost of goods. Now if Parliament refuse to ratify the referendum result, that would be the stage where any outrage is fully justified.

This was going to happen no matter what. The simple fact is the government was trying to do a Brexit all on it's own, and it has no right to do that. A sovereign parliament for a sovereign people, one of the few written laws in our constitution, which gives alll of us the right to have the matter to be heard in parliament, and voted on by the sovereign parliament. It's a huge embarrasment for this government, but it's also a huge dilemma for the whole of parliament, since many of those MPs would be remainers, while as MPs they are supposed to represent their people.

IMHO, the actual referendum should be given the same treatment, AKA an act of parliament in the first place.

originally posted by: Flavian
Leaving the EU requires Treaty changes, which are part of UK law - as well as changes to various other facets of UK law.

As UK law changes have to go through Parliament, what did anyone really expect? It was obvious Parliament would have to ratify this before Article 50 can be triggered - it is basic UK Parliamentary procedure.

Seriously, the faux outrage at this stage is laughable - just like those bemoaning the rising cost of goods. Now if Parliament refuse to ratify the referendum result, that would be the stage where any outrage is fully justified.

Nothing "faux" about my outrage.

If MP's weren't planning on going against the will of the people they wouldn't have supported and called for this case.
If they planned to accede to our demands, they wouldn't have needed the debate, but the fact is something like 80% of them are pro EU.

There are enough interviews with pond life like David Lammy, Sturgeon, Farron etc for there to be no doubt what they will try to do.

I am a bit saddened that they have so many "useful idiots" supporting their gloss of this being about "parliamentary Sovereignty".


Though not totally surprised.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I am as much for a British exit from the EU as the next person who voted for it. However, I personally do not see the benefit in making a stink about this court issue, or the resulting Parliamentary vote. If Parliament fail to follow the instructions of the voting public, that will simply mean that half the Members of Parliament involved in scuppering the enactment of our will, have to be replaced with considerable speed.

Furthermore, I would rather welcome this being put through the Houses of Parliament, because if it fails to be stopped there, then the detractors will have to take their humble pie, and consume it with gusto before a justly smug population.

Further to that, I see no way that it could fail to pass through the commons, given that without the support of the electorate, the individuals in that building will not have jobs, because we can sack them all. If they refuse to allow our will to be done, we can get petitions going to give a vote of no confidence in ALL of those who stand between the people and their freedom, and I ought to point out, that there are a MASSIVE number of Conservative politicians who will be amongst that number, by the way.

This is not a partisan issue, no matter what argument is made to the contrary.

a reply to: TrueBrit

You have more faith than I do, fella.

MP's feel safe to defy our wishes because each constituency has a rump of people who would vote for bloody Hitler if he wore the right colour rosette.


Just the very fact that some people have the temerity to think their own viewpoint is worth more than a democratic consensus makes my blood boil.

I think you've all got this completely wrong. It has absolutely got nothing to do with the referendum or the result of the referendum. Even though an awful lot of people think that the referendum was a done deal, all the referendum was a canvas of what the British people want. It was not an order but a reference and quite constitutionally the government needn't follow the result.
That being said Brexit is going to happen and all this legal arguing is about is the time, manner and deals done for us to get the best options to leaving. The judges ruling just means that the Conservatives alone are not to make that decision, it has to be the whole government. That is all this furor is about not rejecting the referendum.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I'm afraid that most of this outrage is "faux" outrage as there is nothing to be outraged about (yet). I can understand that you may not be happy but anything that involves Law change HAS to go through Parliament first. This applies for UK domestic law as well as international law, both of which would be affected by triggering Article 50. It is simply the way that our system works, hence my comment about it being obvious from the get go.

Where this will tricky for MP's is if they decide to veto the referendum. I don't think they will, unless they represent areas that voted overwhelmingly to Remain - otherwise they would be comitting Parliamentary suicide.

It has certainly got more interesting now though as i genuinely think quite a lot of political careers will now be in a "make or break" situation - depending upon how they decide to implement Brexit (like i say, it is almost inconceivable that they won't go for Brexit).

a reply to: SprocketUK

Bummed out to hear about this 😒

a reply to: SprocketUK

I'm amazed. You have made it clear that the key reason you voted to leave the EU was to ensure parliamentary sovereignty, yet all of a sudden you are against it?

a reply to: SprocketUK

It is not about faith, it is about understanding the mindset from which politicians approach the issues of the day.

Politicians do not actually care, IN THE MAIN about right and wrong. Some do, but the vast majority of people who get into politics at the Parliamentary level, do so because a) they could, and b) they have a good idea of how to make things pretty cushy for themselves, no matter the circumstances. Most of these methods of feathering the nest rely, one way round or another, upon being able to remain in office for a long time. They know that even if they never once represent something they really believe, they can feather their own nests perfectly well on the pay they get, and the expenses they can fiddle like a demented violinist.

Now, staying in their position, whether in or out of government, relies upon doing things that their voter base either agree with, or can be made to see as sensible, no matter how pants on head, shoes on fire retarded it may be. Whether that is voting for hydraulic fracturing, or voting to reduce benefits to innocent disabled people (both of which are, for the record, entirely stupid things to do) there are ways these things can be spun in the media and by disinformation campaigns, to appear much more reasonable than they are.

But voting in direct opposition to the will of the people, is a sure fire way to get yourself booted out of your cushy position with a quickness. Now, its true that some of the constituencies involved in the election, contain more remain voters than leave voters, but not many and certainly not most, not by a long chalk. If I am any judge of these things, our local MP for example, will be looking to vote out, or get sacked by the electorate at the nearest election. If however he carries the vote for the leave side, he will be in kibbles and bits for the rest of his natural life in all probability (which would be a shame, because I hate the awful Tory goon with all my heart).

Their survival revolves around being slaves to the will of the people who live in their constituencies, and if they fail them, if they go against them, it will bite them in the rump so severely, that the commons bar will be serving cheaper steaks than usual for years to come.

The MP's I think will in the majority of cases go with the vote because they know they would be out of a job what concerns me is what concessions are going to have to be given to get their vote? If we end up with a watered down version then the whole thing has been a complete farce. David Cameron tried to reform freedom of movement etc and was told freedom of movement etc was the red line. If we end up still in the single market we may as well just have accepted Cameron's negotiations. The real worry to me is the House of Lords and how much input they will have. We cant get rid of them and so they can well and truly put the spoke in the wheel without being accountable and obviously even if Parliament had a General Election to get the mandate it would still have to go through the House of Lords.

Scottish MPs were in the High Court today as well, no doubt they will do all they can to halt proceedings Its all a bloody mess. I believe the Government should have been allowed to get on with the job (and I am not a tory) because it is already going to be complicated without several hundred other voices putting their views forward. Someone is always going to want something different.. Ia reply to: TrueBrit

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: SprocketUK

I am as much for a British exit from the EU as the next person who voted for it. However, I personally do not see the benefit in making a stink about this court issue, or the resulting Parliamentary vote. If Parliament fail to follow the instructions of the voting public, that will simply mean that half the Members of Parliament involved in scuppering the enactment of our will, have to be replaced with considerable speed.

Furthermore, I would rather welcome this being put through the Houses of Parliament, because if it fails to be stopped there, then the detractors will have to take their humble pie, and consume it with gusto before a justly smug population.

Further to that, I see no way that it could fail to pass through the commons, given that without the support of the electorate, the individuals in that building will not have jobs, because we can sack them all. If they refuse to allow our will to be done, we can get petitions going to give a vote of no confidence in ALL of those who stand between the people and their freedom, and I ought to point out, that there are a MASSIVE number of Conservative politicians who will be amongst that number, by the way.

This is not a partisan issue, no matter what argument is made to the contrary.

Even though I'm US, and have no immediate stake (though likely there will be global implications) in the outcome, I do appreciate your pragmatic approach.

However, (of course there had to be a however), in all of my years, the most important lesson I ever learned was that somethings are a lot easier to do than undo...putting politicians into office is one of those things. I personally find it easier to SAY we will replace XXX than actually being able to replace XXX.

Just how I see things anyway.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Most people I know did vote to leave everything! That was the question 'do you want to leave the EU?'.

No the queation was...

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
> Remain a member of the European Union
> Leave the European Union

Electoral Commission

To be honest, you cannot get clearer than that.

I posted this on another thread, it really belongs here:

After todays high court ruling I predict that you are right.

The thing that is wrankling with me is the comments on various UK newspapers from people who voted to remain - "YEAH - GREAT - take that you uneducated Brexit thickos" - etc.

Well those comments show that it's the people like them who voted remain who are the thick ones, because this now is not about remain or leave, it's about whether we actually live in a democracy or not.

To cheer on the destruction of any illusion even of democracy is like being a slave and cheering on your own enslavement.

Imagine if the EU keeps on pushing East trying to take more former Soviet countries, puching the borders of Russia, and if Hillary starts turning the screws once she is inevitably elected.

We'll be at war with Russia, and those same idiots who have just given their permission for the state and establishment to over-rule the wishes of the people - their wishes - will be the ones who are going to be sent to fight and die.

They'll take to the streets to protest like they did against Iraq (when they were similarly ignored), and they'll moan about their freedoms, and democracy and all the rest.

But when they want to look for someone to blame for their predicament they only need to look into a mirror, because they have just enabled their own enslavement and the removal of any rights they mistakenly believed they had.

Cheering on because you've thrown away your rights to win a pyrrhic victory is moronic beyond words, and it is something that is now going to come back and bite all of us, and our children, and our grandchildren too.

We can now officially say that the will of the people is worth nothing, it means nothing, and like it or not you are ALL going to do exactly as you are told - whether you like it or not.