Does "time" really exist?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Does "time" really exist?

Hm, hang on, lemme check my face in a mirror...

Yup, time exists all right.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: dfnj2015

Does "time" really exist?

Hm, hang on, lemme check my face in a mirror...

Yup, time exists all right.

hahaha cute

originally posted by: sputniksteve

originally posted by: Cutepants

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
You're moving. So therefore time exists.

It's probably best expressed as a paradox.
It does and doesn't exist both simultaneously.

So although I'm partially contradicting my earlier statement, I am also not contradicting it.

If it both exists and does not exist, then it exists, no? Non-existence only the negation of existence.

As a general reply to the thread, hours and meters are arbitrary ideas but that doesn't mean time doesn't exist. Of course it's not a physical thing, it's a phenomenon that manifests through physical reality. If there's no time, then why are we existing now and not yesterday? Can you guys come up with a better explanation for this than time? Also, relativity; clocks run faster or slower depending on their speed and the strength of gravity, it is proven. How do you explain this without time? And what about the fact that time is used as a factor in calculations for, let's say, nuclear missiles? Is the target data not real then?

But speaking of phenomena (Kant's phenomena and noumena), aren't human constructs really the only thing that is real? Reality is what we experience, we know absolutely nothing about the what actually is going on, only what we can see and think. Yes, there must be an even realer reality as a basis for our existence but it's not real to us. So in a way OP is right, but then that would apply to everything.

Edit: Heh, actually you could say that reality is relative too.

There was no yesterday, there is only now. There is only ever now.

I can respect your stance but I feel you are taking the easy way out. When we talk about now or tomorrow or yesterday then we are trying to make progress. You are choosing the easy and pointless way out, in a way.

The problem with saying that time exists is that nothing can happen unless time passes. Ergo, time exists.

originally posted by: swanne
Hm, hang on, lemme check my face in a mirror...

Yup, time exists all right.

Change happens.
Everything that appears changes and disappears - but that which knows that everything is changing never changes.

originally posted by: Wang Tang
Yes, time exists. Claiming that time does not exist is simply an attention-grabbing publicity stunt. More appropriate would be to say: time is not what we thought it was.

To say time does not exist is similar to saying mathematics does not exist. It is a logically absurd claim. Time is a type of measurement. It exists conceptually, just like mathematics.

You are missing the point. Mathematics is a language. There are tons and tons of mathematical thoughts. Only a very small percentage of mathematically thoughts represent patterns of behavior we see in reality. The ones that don't we generally assume say nothing meaningful about nature.

I think there is something at the edge of language when it is used to represent nature and nature's behavior where it breaks down. The problem with the idea of the time is that time is measured with mass and energy. And all our ideas and understanding of reality is measured with time. So the question becomes have we actually said anything meaningful about reality. Probably not.

I do not believe time exists in reality. I believe time is something created by man so the mathematics we use to represent nature's behavior makes sense in human language. I think reality has nothing to do with time. I think in reality everything is connected to everything else and there are no discrete moments. There is just one continuous flow of existence without any arbitrary boundaries between what is actually happening. Our minds and language are digital but reality is analog and cannot be fully represented by abstraction or time based equations.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: InTheLight
The scenery is moving but you never move.
Have you noticed that what you are never moves?

I have noticed that which I am, that being, both spirit and a physical being, both move upon my command (thought - including traveling back in time and deja vu experiences (future glimpses that come to pass)), or are all the movements a blending/merging of molecules in motion where all time is graspable?

My take om 'time'.

I think 'time' is being mixed up with 'duration'. Yes, days, hours or seconds, are definitions of 'time', but we really talking of duration. There is only 'now' and duration of how long certain condition lasted.

Another point is that time is not pure human construct: my cat can calculate the trajectory of a thrown in the air toy, it can 'anticipate'.

Recall Zeno, where to satisfy his notion, an observer has to be 'stationary' to event flow.

I agree, and I don't. I agree that time is a human construct. As for time's relationship with reality, I don't.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I do not believe time exists in reality.

This statement is nonsensical.

There is physical reality, which extends as far as our perception can take us. There is absolute reality, where we can theoretically debate the existence of God, time, dimensions, etc., things beyond our perception.

Does time exist in absolute reality? Yes, because we created time to exist in physical reality. Anything that exists in physical reality must also exist in absolute reality. Therefore, time exists in reality.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I think reality has nothing to do with time

Oh, but reality has everything to do with time. My reality is completely governed by time. And my reality is an actual part of absolute reality.

originally posted by: Wang Tang
There is physical reality, which extends as far as our perception can take us.

What can you be aware of? What can you sense? What is perceived is sensed - with the senses. Can you smell the past or hear the future? I would say no - time cannot be felt - you can only feel what is actually happening (now).

Does time exist in absolute reality? Yes, because we created time to exist in physical reality.

What is appearing as sensation is appearing now and other times (besides now) appear in mind as words, as a story. Indeed you have invented time so you can seem to be separate from what is happening - but really what is happening is simply just happening.
'You' only pretend time so you can seem to have some control - the separate self has no control because there is only now and it is happening - it is done.
There is only presence and it arises as whatever is arising.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes, I have smelled the past during a vision quest to a past life. I was standing in a desert while a camel caravan passed close by me and the scent of frankincense and myrrh filled my senses. I cannot recall hearing sounds before a deja vu experience occurred.

originally posted by: Wang Tang
I agree, and I don't. I agree that time is a human construct. As for time's relationship with reality, I don't.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I do not believe time exists in reality.

This statement is nonsensical.

There is physical reality, which extends as far as our perception can take us. There is absolute reality, where we can theoretically debate the existence of God, time, dimensions, etc., things beyond our perception.

When you go to McDonalds and you order the pretty picture on the menu. You sit down open and your Styrofoam container and there's a meat blob there. It doesn't look like the picture at all. That's the same way you view time. You see time as a pretty picture about reality. But in reality, your words are NOT the reality they are supposed to represent.

We see patterns of nature's behavior that repeat to certain arbitrary intervals. But when we look closely there are no concrete patterns. The patterns we do identify only have meaning in a very confined context. Once you leave the context, the pattern is lost. Although nature's behaviors are repetitive within a context, there's nothing in reality to suggest that time is real.

I can't see time. I can't hold time. I have no evidence that time exists other than indirectly from experience. This is not much different than the way people account for evidence for God. People worship time like they worship God. To suggest time does not exist is a blasphemy against their fanaticism.

Besides, the burden of proof is on you not me. I am not here to prove time does not exist. You prove to me that it does exist.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: dfnj2015

Does "time" really exist?

Hm, hang on, lemme check my face in a mirror...

Yup, time exists all right.

You ever put two mirrors facing each other? You ever look into the mirror and look at the black part of your eye's pupil?

Your evidence for the existence of time is your experience. Well, many people claim this is the exact same evidence proving the existence of God. Does experience prove anything?

Time is a very specific word about reality. The question is does time exist as something real or is it just two arbitrary points of measurement invented by someone who is speaking with words? I think time is a human invention used in language. It seems there is nothing in reality to suggest there are discrete moments other than our limitations in taking measurements with ever greater precision. It seems to me everything in reality flows into everything else without division.

originally posted by: Wang Tang
I agree, and I don't. I agree that time is a human construct. As for time's relationship with reality, I don't.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I do not believe time exists in reality.

This statement is nonsensical.

There is physical reality, which extends as far as our perception can take us. There is absolute reality, where we can theoretically debate the existence of God, time, dimensions, etc., things beyond our perception.

Does time exist in absolute reality? Yes, because we created time to exist in physical reality. Anything that exists in physical reality must also exist in absolute reality. Therefore, time exists in reality.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I think reality has nothing to do with time

Oh, but reality has everything to do with time. My reality is completely governed by time. And my reality is an actual part of absolute reality.

There is no absolute reality. If our individual perspectives didn't exist, reality wouldn't either.

Not sure how many times I have to say this but...

THINGS CAN HAPPEN WITHOUT TIME ITS CALLED CHANGE.

It's movement, it's speed. Things happens whether or not there is a life form to observe it and say "time is passing"

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Even if time cannot be felt, that does not entail its non-existence.

Just because humans invented something that does not mean it doesn't exist. We invented English. English exists. Why can't time exist?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes, I have smelled the past during a vision quest to a past life.

But it was now in your experience. You may think it was past but seeing and hearing only ever happen presently.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes, I have smelled the past during a vision quest to a past life.

But it was now in your experience. You may think it was past but seeing and hearing only ever happen presently.

Yes, I may be mistaken there due to the now being physically present and the past and present not at all. The recall may be a memory or an illusion, it is difficult to determine.

originally posted by: Wang Tang
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Even if time cannot be felt, that does not entail its non-existence.

Just because humans invented something that does not mean it doesn't exist. We invented English. English exists. Why can't time exist?

That is an interesting interpretation of existence.