Does "time" really exist?

a reply to: alphabetaone

The gravity we experience here on earth is due to everything being pulled downward.

I was honestly just thinking about this before you posted and I honestly cannot give you a legitimate answer on why that happens!

You asked for proof of my claims regarding space-time, I gave you what proof I had to prove the space-time claim, which is generally accepted in the scientific community. Not unchallenged, but hardly anything in science ever goes unchallenged.


To be fair, no I do not believe space-time is being bent when you drop your keys.

a reply to: eluryh22

Very hard to discuss without pulling out the paradox cards isn't it?

I think I understand where you are trying to go with this, but it feels like trying to explain 3D to an entity that has only ever known 2D.

Left/Right, Up/Down is all 2D guy knows. Try to explain to him how we move 3D in our world.

originally posted by: DeadCat
a reply to: alphabetaone

The gravity we experience here on earth is due to everything being pulled downward.

I was honestly just thinking about this before you posted and I honestly cannot give you a legitimate answer on why that happens!

You asked for proof of my claims regarding space-time, I gave you what proof I had to prove the space-time claim, which is generally accepted in the scientific community. Not unchallenged, but hardly anything in science ever goes unchallenged.


To be fair, no I do not believe space-time is being bent when you drop your keys.

Precisely right! The downward pull, which is not an illusion.

Honestly I got involved because I saw a statement which I will paraphrase that went something like "the fact that our feet are planted on the ground is an illusion of gravity"....To this end, is what I'm specifically addressing, it in fact is not, no more than those keys falling to the ground.

Like I said, wasn't being difficult, simply trying to sort the bad data from the good data.

I love theoretical physics though, to be perfectly honest.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: dfnj2015

Good topic.

Time does not exist literally as it is an arbitrary form of measurement.
In fact, I'd even say length width and height do not exist either.

Do meters exist?
Do liters exist?
Do grams exist?

No, they are abstract conceptualizations that we devised in order to quantify things.
It is a system we created.

Time is exactly like this. Arbitrary and abstract - though it can be applied with specificity and to be exact.
Can something be subjective and objective at the same time?

Yes time exists even before man was in the planet events happen. Time us just a measurement of events if we aply clock as a means to measure. But the events still happen. We can call them anything and set any length of these units to measure events but the events still happen. So time exists regardless of something is there to measure it.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I'm getting the hang of it here now. I believe ufo's are real I saw one 3 yrs ago, and always thought time here was in a sense manipulated by the unknown like aliens or something. There's something to the time thing.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TzarChasm

Basically if awareness is an illusion then we are not aware of ourselves.

If time and matter are illusions, then there is no "ourselves" to be aware of. Reality is a very vivid hallucination of itself, a hallucination experiencing perpetual delusions of reality.

...rabbit hole indeed.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Time, courage, misfortune, honour, pride etc. are all examples of abstract nouns; conceptual constructs which we cannot directly see, hear, touch, taste or smell. Sure, you can describe what you see using these names, but they remain intangible.

While I agree with the OP, I think member schuyler made a very important point: while time might not technically exist, we still gain many benefits when utilising time to separate and differentiate between different events and experiences in our lives.

originally posted by: NthOther
Carlin is over-quoted and excessively invoked, but sometimes no one says it better:

George was a philosopher.

I can feel time within nature, can you? Sometimes, usually during a car crash, it slows down to a snail's pace. Then during times of fun, it is fleeting.

And we skip or leap a year here and there to make it alright.

I really want to attempt to elaborate on this 4D perception idea without getting TOO far fetched... which is hard but:

Pretty much 3D is you take the 2D universe, and turn it in all directions (360* to complete the observation of 3 dimensions) Just like a circle, 3D implies infinite 2D directions. Try explaining that to a 2D entity, he will say you're bonkers.

A 4D world implies that there are infinite 3D spaces, but just like the 2D entity who says we are bonkers, we can only see one: the one we're in.


It would pretty much be like.. a panoramic of multiple 3D spaces, all infinite possibilities, all happening at once.

A 4D entity would have an innate ability to see the world in this way. To him each sliver of 3D makes up a distance between him.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: dfnj2015

Good topic.

Time does not exist literally as it is an arbitrary form of measurement.
In fact, I'd even say length width and height do not exist either.

Do meters exist?
Do liters exist?
Do grams exist?

No, they are abstract conceptualizations that we devised in order to quantify things.
It is a system we created.

Time is exactly like this. Arbitrary and abstract - though it can be applied with specificity and to be exact.
Can something be subjective and objective at the same time?

Yes time exists even before man was in the planet events happen. Time us just a measurement of events if we aply clock as a means to measure. But the events still happen. We can call them anything and set any length of these units to measure events but the events still happen. So time exists regardless of something is there to measure it.

You have just said "Change exist without time" Time is not crucial for existence.

Time only exist when something is there to measure the change that is happening.

originally posted by: DeadCat

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: dfnj2015

Good topic.

Time does not exist literally as it is an arbitrary form of measurement.
In fact, I'd even say length width and height do not exist either.

Do meters exist?
Do liters exist?
Do grams exist?

No, they are abstract conceptualizations that we devised in order to quantify things.
It is a system we created.

Time is exactly like this. Arbitrary and abstract - though it can be applied with specificity and to be exact.
Can something be subjective and objective at the same time?

Yes time exists even before man was in the planet events happen. Time us just a measurement of events if we aply clock as a means to measure. But the events still happen. We can call them anything and set any length of these units to measure events but the events still happen. So time exists regardless of something is there to measure it.

You have just said "Change exist without time" Time is not crucial for existence.

Time only exist when something is there to measure the change that is happening.

So the universe as it exists today just happened instantaneously until we decided one day its 13.8 billion years old? Interesting concept.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: DeadCat

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: dfnj2015

Good topic.

Time does not exist literally as it is an arbitrary form of measurement.
In fact, I'd even say length width and height do not exist either.

Do meters exist?
Do liters exist?
Do grams exist?

No, they are abstract conceptualizations that we devised in order to quantify things.
It is a system we created.

Time is exactly like this. Arbitrary and abstract - though it can be applied with specificity and to be exact.
Can something be subjective and objective at the same time?

Yes time exists even before man was in the planet events happen. Time us just a measurement of events if we aply clock as a means to measure. But the events still happen. We can call them anything and set any length of these units to measure events but the events still happen. So time exists regardless of something is there to measure it.

You have just said "Change exist without time" Time is not crucial for existence.

Time only exist when something is there to measure the change that is happening.

So the universe as it exists today just happened instantaneously until we decided one day its 13.8 billion years old? Interesting concept.

Not what I said. The changes took place... but time is the unit used to measure those changes. If you aren't measuring the changes, then there is no unit of time. Only change.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: NthOther
Carlin is over-quoted and excessively invoked, but sometimes no one says it better:

George was a philosopher.

I can feel time within nature, can you? Sometimes, usually during a car crash, it slows down to a snail's pace. Then during times of fun, it is fleeting.

And we skip or leap a year here and there to make it alright.

Actually, InTheLight, you know there were theories revolving around schumanns resonance which is believed to warp our perception of time.

It was first noticed in astronauts returning to earth and how incredibly offcenter their perception of time was. More research into this went on to show there was some significance between the Schumanns Resonance (the electrical impulses that beat at a constant approximately 7.83 Hz) and the ability for that to influence our internal chronology.

The Electrical impulses take place between the Earth and Ionosphere and though the frequency varies slightly in different spots around the Globe, 7.83 Hz is pretty much the standard for it.

Just an interesting concept for why time may appear to drag at some times and be fleeting at others...it could be because we ourselves alter the electrical impulse frequency with brain activity associated with an event...for instance an accident may alter the electrical impulse in one direction while the brain activity associated with the endorphin process of "having a great time" may influence it in another direction; one a slow-down the other a speed-up.

a reply to: alphabetaone

perhaps that has more to do with daytime/nighttime cycles. the space station experiences daily rotation differently from the way we do on terra firma.

originally posted by: DeadCat

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: DeadCat

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: dfnj2015

Good topic.

Time does not exist literally as it is an arbitrary form of measurement.
In fact, I'd even say length width and height do not exist either.

Do meters exist?
Do liters exist?
Do grams exist?

No, they are abstract conceptualizations that we devised in order to quantify things.
It is a system we created.

Time is exactly like this. Arbitrary and abstract - though it can be applied with specificity and to be exact.
Can something be subjective and objective at the same time?

Yes time exists even before man was in the planet events happen. Time us just a measurement of events if we aply clock as a means to measure. But the events still happen. We can call them anything and set any length of these units to measure events but the events still happen. So time exists regardless of something is there to measure it.

You have just said "Change exist without time" Time is not crucial for existence.

Time only exist when something is there to measure the change that is happening.

So the universe as it exists today just happened instantaneously until we decided one day its 13.8 billion years old? Interesting concept.

Not what I said. The changes took place... but time is the unit used to measure those changes. If you aren't measuring the changes, then there is no unit of time. Only change.

does an inch stop being an inch just because no one is there to call it an inch? a rose without a name is still as sweet - or sharp, depending on your perspective.

originally posted by: DeadCat
I really want to attempt to elaborate on this 4D perception idea without getting TOO far fetched... which is hard but:

Pretty much 3D is you take the 2D universe, and turn it in all directions (360* to complete the observation of 3 dimensions) Just like a circle, 3D implies infinite 2D directions. Try explaining that to a 2D entity, he will say you're bonkers.

A 4D world implies that there are infinite 3D spaces, but just like the 2D entity who says we are bonkers, we can only see one: the one we're in.


It would pretty much be like.. a panoramic of multiple 3D spaces, all infinite possibilities, all happening at once.

A 4D entity would have an innate ability to see the world in this way. To him each sliver of 3D makes up a distance between him.

so...every possible action or inaction all happening concurrently? like that episode in rick and morty?

a reply to: dfnj2015

To me time is merely the measurement of something, maybe entropy in our world

Though time is an illusion like many things in our world matrix


So Time has a relative existence

Of course time exists and no it is not a "construct of human blah blah" . If humans existed or not...it would still take time for things in the universe to happen. The universe has an age. It takes time for planets to move through 3 dimensional space. Light travels at a certain speed. You can't have speed without TIME. I could go on and on really.

originally posted by: OpenMindedPhilosopher
Of course time exists and no it is not a "construct of human blah blah" . If humans existed or not...it would still take time for things in the universe to happen. The universe has an age. It takes time for planets to move through 3 dimensional space. Light travels at a certain speed. You can't have speed without TIME. I could go on and on really.

But do time and speed exist without an observer? Think about it. If there is no subject around to measure it, does it exist?

Hmm, while time itself might be an illusion in its true form, I think that it is very real from our own perception and understanding. If there were no time, all the concepts of physics would be wrong. I`m not saying they are or aren`t, but more like that it is possible it`s all an illusion in the first place in which these rules apply.

How do we percieve time? That`s a very good question. Is it truly linear like it is supposed to be? Or is it cyclical where you are born to live and then die and are born again? And are the stars moving away from the center of creation on constant basis or are they merely shifting its position folowing a scheduled pattern? Who knows, but time in universe surely appears to be both linear and cyclical.

Moreover, regarding our perception of time, have you ever considered that you may be living a whole life from your perspective, while the same time frame can be seen as a matter of seconds from an outside observer? In my opinion, that is entirely possible. We human beings always thought and some still do think that we were the centre of the universe and therfore our perception is holy and the truth from which we move forward. Basically I`m saying that we don`t know # where exactly do we fit in, some just think that we do. That`s all

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: alphabetaone

perhaps that has more to do with daytime/nighttime cycles. the space station experiences daily rotation differently from the way we do on terra firma.

I would agree with that too, except I would imagine it would affect sleep cycles and not time perception. For example, the issue reported by some of these astronauts were that time was moving more quickly than they remembered...if what you think believe were true, then a lot of people from Alaska would also experience the same affects, which they didn't or never have shown to.