De-programming Family Members and Friends Brainwashed by the MSM

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: littlefinch

Littlefinch,

Although I am not in America, and therefore am not thinking about who to vote for in a few days time, I am often beset by programmed people, both right and left. Even my mother has a hard time accepting that immigration is not the problem, that it is a symptom, and one which must be addressed WELL after the actual cause has been addressed, and that the cause is warmongering on the part of western powers, the creation of proxy armies to fight shadow wars with our weapons, our equipment, and our money behind it.

She has found it difficult to accept that until these proxy wars end, immigration not only will continue, but MUST, since housing the unfortunate persons who are caught up in our own nations foreign policy decisions is the only thing we, the people can do to express our solidarity with those displaced persons. She does not find it easy to understand that we, the people of Britain and the immigrants who come here, are all victims of the same evil...the greed and megalomania of a small few in the world, who seek dominion, rather than to liberate.

Finally someone that sees the big picture. To see past the left/right illusion and to realize that it is not a Trump supporter vs Hillary supporter issue or a democrat vs republican or black vs white etc. Those are all divide and conquer tactics and a distraction to make us fight amongst ourselves while the real enemy goes about business as usual unchallenged. Until the people stop fighting amongst themselves and realize it's a we the people vs the elites issue then the destabilization and plundering of nations and peoples liberties will never stop.

You can never win a war if you don't even know who your real enemy is.

Start with little things. Like say a commercial is on and an obvious logical fallacy is used. Point it out to start a conversation about recognizing logical fallacies.

Hardly anyone understands information as data. They need someone to tell them how to feel about implications of data.
...
I swore off cable news when I saw cnn doing an hour long bit on how a black hole possibly swallowed mh370. (Throwback but hey it's back in the news). They brought on a black hole expert to explain how it could happen.

a reply to: Thoren

Precisely.

When I hear friends and family worrying about Russia, or worrying about immigration, worrying about the cost of living even (which as we know, is largely a metric which is manipulated to make people less likely to rock the boat, lest their way of life become impossible to afford), and making choices or forming opinions based on those things alone or together, I have, in times past, dragged out the soap box, and explained, in some rigorous detail mind you, that things are not what they seem, that their concerns are illogical because the things which actually threaten them and their way of life are not Russia, or immigrants, or the cost of living itself, but the structures of power which are creating circumstances where we would need to worry about these things at all.

Russia actually has no intention of causing a threat to the British public, or the wider world as it happens. They are in a cleft stick, because they are surrounded with missile bases, lambasted for actually trying to solve the ISIS Crisis (a western manufactured mess), and Putin has out and out stated that most of the concerns of people like ourselves where that situation is concerned, are absolutely legitimate and on the money. Furthermore, immigration is not a threat, because it is caused by the very factors that Russia is trying to counter, that is western foreign affairs policy over the last few decades, coming to its darkly portended fruit. And cost of living here in this country, and likely in other countries in the west is only in the parlous state that it is, because of the following things:

Government mismanagement of resources

Bad contracts between government departments and the private corporate bodies which supply them goods and services

Such companies as supply government with goods and services storing their money off shore and paying improperly small amounts of tax

Such companies as supply government with goods and services overcharging government departments by upwards of three hundred percent for those goods and services

Such companies as previously described often being owned by friends of or family of government employees, offering those companies unfair advantage over more competitive companies

Large companies operating in the UK market paying improperly small amounts of tax (examples of which have been public knowledge for some time now)

Dependence on fossil fuel despite science and technology having advanced sufficiently to negate the need for such dependence, on the whole, save for in the case of transport, which is still only practically possible using petroleum or diesel.

War for resources or profit, howsoever gained

If these things were not happening, then the government would save tens of billions a year across its many departments, by only doing business with companies which are prepared to store their money in UK banks, by only doing business with the companies offering the best value for money, by only doing business with companies which are run through a valid, unbiased tendering process, and which are NOT owned by any affiliate, close associate or family member of any acting or former, or prospective member of cabinet or the shadow government.

If these things were not happening, then we would not be dependent on expensive fossil fuels, but rather on solar panels built into every home and office block in the country, on every roof, every window, hydroelectric power or wave generated power on every coastal or tidal estuary in the country. We could, in short begin the process of making our future today.

And lastly, war. War is, oddly enough, sometimes necessary. It is necessary when shots have already been fired at our soil, when our people are under direct threat of military invasion by uniformed representatives of a nation or body of nations. That has not been a legitimate threat since the 1940s. No one has dared, and with good reason. I do not count attacks by the agents of proxy armies we paid to create. I do not count deliberate and obvious population manipulation tactics like that, because our taxes paid for them, and they are the responsibility of those who organise our proxy armies to answer for. Yet we spend BILLIONS on war itself and billions more on the equipment necessary to fight it.

I cannot accept this. It beggars belief, it makes an absolute nonsense of reason and rationality. Hundreds of billions of pounds escape our economy to pay for war, government corruption, and corporate level tax avoidance/evasion. These things are a far greater threat to us, and meanwhile our surveillance state moves forward, ever forward, GCHQ spending their share of ill gotten gains, on grabbing up every bit of data on the PEOPLE of the country, not the threats ranged against it. We walk on watched streets, we speak on tapped cables, we write on monitored machinery... we are not free, our government is not under our control, and we dare to come up with concerns about those who come here as a result of our appeasement of the fascism at the heart of our government?

It makes me livid. Every time I think of it, I feel the hands of my ancestors on my shoulders, their voices, screaming as one into my ears, telling me that this is not the future they fought for, that this mass ignorance and the effect it has had on the direction our nation moves in today, dishonours their memory, pisses on their grave markers, and mocks their efforts to free their descendants from tyrants.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Spot on sir. I personally witnessed the war for profit myself as I served for 6 years in the military. An ugly thing it is and has absolutely nothing to do with defending freedom or freeing people. It's all business, cold calculated and always with the bottom line in mind. All of the points you've made in your post are what people need to see but most are too blind to see the writing on the wall. They are so caught up in the entire illusion they themselves have become a part of it through social conditioning, distractions and blind fanaticism for what they have been told to believe in.

I hate to use a quote from a movie but it really hits home with the state of most peoples minds.

"You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

Said by Morpheus in The Matrix. Seems silly to most but this is the feeling I get from most people. They are so ingrained into the system the elites have built for them they will protect it even if unknowingly.

a reply to: Thoren

I think what you quoted from the Matrix pertains very much to the current situation, and you should feel no qualm about quoting from the film for that reason. Many of the points made in that film are entirely legitimate and relevant to the situation we face as a species.

And it has to be said, you are right on with your assessment, that people do unknowingly protect the system. They do this by accepting that their enemies are who they are told they are. They do this by accepting that the poor, the jobless, the sick and the downtrodden are their enemies. They do this by accepting that powerless people half a world away, are somehow less than human, which legitimises their taste for and preparedness to pay for war which will kill them, either as a direct consequence or as an unfortunate by product. They do this by taking their real enemies as champions, by throwing support behind fascists dressed as capitalists, of both Democrat and Republican persuasion, or in my nation Conservative or New Labour persuasion. It is IMPERATIVE that people stop thinking about party, and start thinking about policy, refusing particularly to vote for anyone whose ticket includes a preference for or tendency to make war on people who pose no legitimate threat, refusing to vote for anyone who demonises the poor and powerless, anyone who demonsises people based on nationality, creed or colour, sex, gender or any other superficiality, refusing to vote for those who seek dominion, and instead voting only for those whose intention and entire lifes work has been to free the people from the bonds about their wrists, from their debts, from the things which prevent them from making for themselves, the life they deserve and aspire to.

There are no such people amongst the front runners for the American presidency. Yet supporters of both are their own worst enemy. They have lost their minds to the propagandists, lost their votes to the lowest of causes, one or another flavour of tyranny, regardless of blue or red.

It is a state of affairs that is not sustainable, and only sets the species on one path. The road to nowhere.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I'll have to disagree with you on one point, it's not a road to nowhere. It leads to something but when that something rears it's ugly head in its totality the people will realize the grave mistake they've made but at that point it will be too late. Like lambs lead to slaughter believing it's feeding time again, and then when they see what the shepherd had in store for them all along it will be too late, the gate has closed behind them and they are being pushed forward by the sheep behind them that don't see what's coming.

originally posted by: littlefinch
a reply to: fractal5

here's the thing fractal

1. I have found points of agreement with my mother, but those are "trumped" by the fact that she's completely brainwashed and refuses to have a thought for herself on the matter.
2. I've told her a lot of things, I've asked her what would it take to convince her that this woman is a criminal, what if she was man, how would she feel about her? She answers with things like "I'm old", "I just don't know" and she sounds tired, very tired. And i don't blame her, she's lived a long and difficult life.
3. She thinks that anybody speaking an opinion that goes against the status quo is nothing but a "conspiracy theorist" and that's exactly what the MSM is pushing on people. Basically, if the MSM isn't talking about it, it's not "valid" information, even if it has been proven as reality.

She questions authority, there's no doubt about it, but she cant see through the film of propaganda that infiltrates every bit of information that she absorbs from the same, tired propaganda outlets.

I repeat the facts to her, she just simply does not want to hear it. I think it's a lost case with her, but I appreciate the advice anyway.

As Thoren said in a recent reply, people get angry, so angry that they let their emotions get the best of them, and they don't realize that their anger is misdirected at the wrong reason.

You know what? She's right.
And the lot of you should be ashamed. You're surprised that they don't want to hear it? That their "eyes glaze over" and you can tell when it happens? They feel exactly the same way about you. Except that they are right, and you all are hopelessly paranoid and utterly mistaken.

Fake news is fake. Trump is a monster. So......

have at me, everyone - the OP's mother is correct. You all should listen to the people who are trying to talk you down from the ledge you are on. It's like watching a bunch of people take hands and walk up to the edge of a gaping abyss. And the scariest part is that you don't want us to keep you from that unspeakably horrible demise.

Heartbreaking. Leave your mother alone. All of you, stop trying to spread your ridiculous hysteria. And most of all, stop believing you know what you're talking about. You are wrong.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Let me guess you're the bastion of light and truth? One i'm not a trump supporter, you would have to be crazy to vote for Hillary or Trump. Two I never tried to force my view on anyone I only want them to stop eating the crap the msm spoon feeds them. Three if promoting critical thinking, asking questions and independent thought is wrong then I don't want to be right. If the people I talk to about the candidates can only repeat the same talking points they hear on fox,cnn,msnbc etc they are not thinking for themselves and need a wake up call.

Ah but you see your post is the perfect example of that completely predictable angry reaction. It conflicts with your belief system and what you have been taught and the natural response is to be scared and react in disgust and anger. The system relies on those mothers and fathers that do not teach their children to not accept everything they hear on the msm, to think independently,do research and come to their own conclusion. Raise good little obedient believers.

originally posted by: Thoren
a reply to: fractal5

I've tried those tactics with some friends and family, it usually ends with them getting angry. The programming is so ingrained that it seems to trigger an almost violent response if questioned too hard or presented with too much contradicting fact. It usually comes to that point at the moment they run out of talking points to repeat that the msm they subscribe to spoon fed them.

Oh I forgot a big one, humor.

In fact your mother believes it is her duty to adhere to authority, right or wrong, and not question authority. So long as she has that mindset you can forget about her changing her mind about anything.

Liberalism is a cult. See if there are ideas here you have not tried:
people.howstuffworks.com...

Personally I have allied with the Free State Project and am in the process of moving to New Hampshire. Some people consider it a cult and I consider it the anti-cult organization. I never "try" to convince anyone in my family of anything. However, these things come up and I share my views. They have yet to make much of an impact.

But I will say that the most useful thing is to make statements they agree with, and when I do they never get angry. They didn't get angry when you shared something they agreed with did they?

a reply to: fractal5

That's one of the parts that cracks me up, if it fits their belief system they have no problem with it. When I said things against Trump it was smiles and nods, mention anything against Hillary and out come the pitchforks. It's actually somewhat entertaining because they're not quite sure how to deal with someone that supports neither candidate. Totally throws them for a loop.

I guess the msm brainwashing does'nt cover on how to deal with people that don't fall for the left/right divide and conquer tactic.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Lol, a reply to you and the other poster who agree with my mother despite having no idea how the conversation went down.

First of all, nowhere in the discussion did I refer to being pro Trump. I fully agree that Trump is a scumbag, but that's not what i'm talking about. I'm focusing on Hilary's misdeeds. I tried to keep the focus solely on Hillary, and nowhere in my discussion did I say anything about race.

I was simply having a discussion with my mother on Hillary's foreign policy. That is all. No I am not wrong that she wants a no-fly zone of Syria. No I am not wrong that she wants to push us deeper in the middle east.

How in the bloody hell does that make me sound like a Ku Klux Klan member for taking an anti-war stance? Hundreds of thousands of people have died in the middle east, written off as collateral damage, and I'm somehow a racist because I think we have no business being there? Either you're an idiot or you trolling dawg. No I never tried to assert that my claim was right, all I did was explain what Hillary said and why I think it's a bad idea. My mother agreed with me, but she downplayed the importance of what's going on in the middle east, just like the majority of Americans seems to be doing.

No I'm not trying to reprogram anyone. I just want people to think outside of the box, be more openminded, and not blindly accept everything the media tries to cram into our brains.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Truebrit and Thoren, thanks so much for providing your input. I'm glad to see people are willing to think with their own minds, do their own research, and are doing what they can to help people see through the lies and deceit that invades every aspect of our society. Keep on fighting the good fight.

a reply to: Thoren

That's exactly how it goes I'm afraid, it's either black or it's white. If you are anti-Hillary, then you're pro trump, and vice versa. The smear pieces on the mainstream media are all about calling out other Republicans or Democrats, but make no mention for the people that are undecided, for the people that have accepted that both candidates are trash.

They don't want us to think that there is any other option than red or blue, and that's how we got into this mess. I'd say the programming is working pretty damn well, seeing as how a vote for anybody but the two major candidates is considered a waste, or a vote enabling the "greater evil."

Lesser of two evils. Lesser of two evils. I hear this thrown around a lot. But how easily is something like evil measured out when we have two candidates that are both confirmed liars, involved in shady deals, and flip flop on decisions whenever they get heat? How are we supposed to trust these people? Good vs Evil (evil vs evil?). Red vs Blue. There is no middle ground apparently.

I think OP's basic problem is to assume that everyone is somehow capable of seeing things the way OP hopes they would. The average person is very stupid, and half the population is even stupider than that*. But more importantly, most people just fundamentally do not give a button what ill is done in the world, so long as it doesn't affect them.

Even Jesus recognised that some people just wouldn't listen to him and weren't worth bothering about.

And that's not a dreadful position to be in. If I stopped to care about all the bad things that I could help fight or raise awareness about, I would soon be so overwhelmed as to be incapable of any action at all.

Pick your causes, but more importantly pick your fights. Do what you can, when you can do it, and five minutes spent focusing your energy where it will be most effective is worth ten years of arguing with stubborn NORPs.

(* = Logically speaking, this cliché is not correct, it's just a handy phrase)

a reply to: audubon

Well for the most part, living at home, I try to bite my tongue when I hear my parents go on about how hard Hillary has it. When they regurgitate information that they don't fully understand or is just sometimes completely factually wrong, I feel as if I should speak my mind, sometimes just to play devil's advocate.

It's one thing to think about changing the rest of the world, but when the people you have to live with are so locked up in the programming by the media, and I mean like always on their computer reading through CNN, always tuning in at the daily television news, it really is a drag to be around.

I'm living at home so I don't have to accumulate debt while I go to college. For now I've decided I'm going to do my best just to smile and laugh it off whenever I'm put in these situations, because I really don't appreciate being called names by my family just for sharing my opinion. But I disagree, it is dreadful and it feels effing terrible dude lol. I wouldn't mind if it were strangers, but I have to be around these people everyday, hence why I made the title focusing specifically on family members and close friends.

The sooner the election is over the better.

a reply to: littlefinch

Well for the most part, living at home, I try to bite my tongue when I hear my parents go on about how hard Hillary has it. When they regurgitate information that they don't fully understand or is just sometimes completely factually wrong, I feel as if I should speak my mind, sometimes just to play devil's advocate.

Ah. So --- you live "at home" with your parents.

And your mother doesn't like the stuff you're saying.
Is your mother mentally challenged? Is she literate? Is she "online"?

Go out and live on your own, bubba. Then come back and tell us how awesome Trump is.

So, littlefinch...how old are you? Thirteen? Fifteen? Thirty-five?

Do you have enough to eat? Is the roof leaking? Has your house been bombed or have you been 'gassed' out of it?






no?




*wags head*

a reply to: Thoren

Let me guess you're the bastion of light and truth? One i'm not a trump supporter, you would have to be crazy to vote for Hillary or Trump.

No, I'm not.

I am not a bastion of light and truth. You asked "you're the bastion of light and truth?"
I don't think so. That's up to your sensibilities and critical thinkiing.

But if you insist on expressing your side of the story, then go right ahead.

I didn't tell you what or who you supported. Why are you taking this personally? I didn't ask you, nor did I tell you that I was "a bastion of light and truth."

Thanks for noticing, though.

a reply to: littlefinch

Your best bet, then, is to find some instance in which their perception of CNN (if that's their preferred outlet) is flat-out, knock-down, in-their-faces wrong, and rub their noses in it. This is a matter of luck and the 'right moment' arising, but if you could prove the point beyond argument, without making them feel silly, you would probably find them a little more tractable.

It would be difficult, because CNN didn't gain market dominance by being easy to debunk, but it is do-able. That recent incident with Andrew Cuomo and Wikileaks would have been an entry point if I'd been looking for one. Doubtless others will arise, and you'll have to pounce. You won't be able to shatter their illusions, but you could put a significant crack in them.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
Lol yeah I think you're trolling me, either that or you don't know how to read.

Nowhere did I say I supported Trump. As a matter of fact I said I think he's a scumbag, but that obviously went over your head. Yes I live at home and I'm not ashamed of it. I'm not sure if I should tell you anymore information, my mommy told me not to talk to strangers.

a reply to: audubon

Eh, even If i were to find an instance of CNN caught dead lying, i'm not sure if it would have much of an impact, but thanks anyways.