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The GOPs Age of Authoritarianism Has Only Begun - New York Magazine

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posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: underpass61
So...... the party whose central tenets are LESS government, LESS regulation, and LESS taxation are now ushering in a new "Age of Authoritarianism" ? How did I miss this?


Indeed. I have become very wary of any Democrat making accusations as they nearly always turn out to be a tactic to blame others for the very practices they themselves engage in. In fact if you listen to all the accusations and understand them for what they are, you being to get a clear picture of the entire Progressive movement, which is still very much rooted in the ideology of Hitlers pre-war Germany.




posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I've been seeing the stirrings of Authoritarianism for a long while now and not as a feature of US politics. It's a rising political perspective that's being driven by socio-economic factors and the sheer, delightful usefulness of Middle East migration.

It's a zeitgeisty world-view I suspect appears periodically throughout the world and it's, once more, the West's turn. People are defensive as ever that the 'GOP' is implicated in the article. I'm less sure it's a GOP thing and rather a slow accretion of vested interests who accrue political and grassroots weight in response to circumstance. I also suspect a few media portals are fanning the flames to introduce more division.

UK's new leadership have the traits of authoritarianism and post-Merkel Germany will possibly be the same. Sweden's traditionally moderate political climate is leaning right and the Russian neighbours are heading in that direction out of self-preservation. No, I wouldn't say these nations are all 'authoritarian.' My broader point is how the political landscape of the West is becoming fertile for an authoritarian power. If it's the UK that becomes authoritarian, it'll have no opposition from a Clinton or Trump POTUS. Likewise, the UK wouldn't challenge a similarly authoritarian Germany...or Sweden.

If political partisans choose to focus on the GOP, they'll be overlooking the other signs of approaching authoritarianism.

The first thing I thought of in your OP was Hofstadter's 1960s article. You can imagine the smile when I saw it referenced down in the article.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

I'm interested in why you think the current UK govt. has traits of authoritarianism. Can you explain further?



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

I don't disagree with a thing you said. Thank you for a valid, valuable on-topic post.

To me, any politician and all politics is in some way more or less authoritarian (usually more).

The problem is, in my mind, that in the last decade or so the Republican party has taken on the mantle of the "smaller government" party, which is just plain hooey. They only want "smaller government" when they're not in power, when in power, we see creations like the Patriot Act a new Department of Homeland Security, trillions of new spending on war and corporate perks, etc. etc.

NEITHER "side" in American politics is truly libertarian (not the party Libertarian) or focused on the rights and value of individuals rather than the government.

And whether the opposite of "authoritarian" is "libertarian" or "revolutionary" or "anarchist" remains to be seen.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: underpass61
So...... the party whose central tenets are LESS government, LESS regulation, and LESS taxation are now ushering in a new "Age of Authoritarianism" ? How did I miss this?


Indeed. I have become very wary of any Democrat making accusations as they nearly always turn out to be a tactic to blame others for the very practices they themselves engage in. In fact if you listen to all the accusations and understand them for what they are, you being to get a clear picture of the entire Progressive movement, which is still very much rooted in the ideology of Hitlers pre-war Germany.


All government is authoritarian. American Democrats, in general, don't lie about it; Republicans do.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

Except the people who live in small towns and cities see it happening. I live in a state that 90% of the legislature is conservative republicans. We are closing homeless shelters and buying military style weapons for the police in towns with less than 25k population and peaceful. They have shifted the tax cuts and burden to homeowners and seniors that is killing them. They refuse to help 78,000 uninsured Idahoans who work but can't afford premiums. They have made numerous abortion laws against women and their doctors in the past five years. Then they just passed a law that give people the right to let their sick, living children die because of faith. What do you call that?



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Kandinsky

Except the people who live in small towns and cities see it happening. I live in a state that 90% of the legislature is conservative republicans. We are closing homeless shelters and buying military style weapons for the police in towns with less than 25k population and peaceful. They have shifted the tax cuts and burden to homeowners and seniors that is killing them. They refuse to help 78,000 uninsured Idahoans who work but can't afford premiums. They have made numerous abortion laws against women and their doctors in the past five years. Then they just passed a law that give people the right to let their sick, living children die because of faith. What do you call that?



Nothing like Authoritarianism.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: underpass61
So...... the party whose central tenets are LESS government, LESS regulation, and LESS taxation are now ushering in a new "Age of Authoritarianism" ? How did I miss this?


Indeed. I have become very wary of any Democrat making accusations as they nearly always turn out to be a tactic to blame others for the very practices they themselves engage in. In fact if you listen to all the accusations and understand them for what they are, you being to get a clear picture of the entire Progressive movement, which is still very much rooted in the ideology of Hitlers pre-war Germany.


All government is authoritarian. American Democrats, in general, don't lie about it; Republicans do.


Hmm. Are we talking about any form of authoritarian policy here or a guiding principal of govt. as described in the article you linked to frame the debate? If the former, then yes every society on Earth is authoritarian (not just govt.), which negates the entire commentary in the article. If the latter, then no, not all government is authoritarian.
edit on 2/11/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

So making laws that will place one gender in jail or denied medical services and giving the same freedom to choose to a different group, what is that?



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: underpass61
So...... the party whose central tenets are LESS government, LESS regulation, and LESS taxation are now ushering in a new "Age of Authoritarianism" ? How did I miss this?


Indeed. I have become very wary of any Democrat making accusations as they nearly always turn out to be a tactic to blame others for the very practices they themselves engage in. In fact if you listen to all the accusations and understand them for what they are, you being to get a clear picture of the entire Progressive movement, which is still very much rooted in the ideology of Hitlers pre-war Germany.


All government is authoritarian. American Democrats, in general, don't lie about it; Republicans do.


Hmm. Are we talking about any form of authoritarian policy here or a guiding principal of govt. as described in the article you linked to frame the debate? If the former, then yes every society on Earth is authoritarian (not just govt.), which negates the entire commentary in the article. If the latter, then no, not all government is authoritarian.


No, the prevalence of authoritarianism in one form or degree in most human hierarchical systems does not automatically negate the entire article I posted in the OP. That's merely a generic rhetorical attempt on your part.

Yes, every government, religion, social club, and even Little League teams are authoritarian to some degree. That's just a basic fact.

The degree of authoritarianism being decried in the OP is different than merely a hierarchical system of organization/management.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:20 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: UKTruth

So making laws that will place one gender in jail or denied medical services and giving the same freedom to choose to a different group, what is that?



Again. Not authoritarian in the context of the article in the OP.
Your argument seems to be that not forcing others to pay for free health care and implementing laws to protect human life is somehow authoritarian in nature (by the way Idaho law seems pretty reasonable to me in terms of abortion).
statelaws.findlaw.com...
Or not forcing people to pay for the homeless is somehow authoritarian.

It seems an authoritarian govt. would be fine to you, given your examples, as long as someone else was on the receiving end of that authority, like forcing other people to pay for homeless shelters and medical care.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: underpass61
So...... the party whose central tenets are LESS government, LESS regulation, and LESS taxation are now ushering in a new "Age of Authoritarianism" ? How did I miss this?


Indeed. I have become very wary of any Democrat making accusations as they nearly always turn out to be a tactic to blame others for the very practices they themselves engage in. In fact if you listen to all the accusations and understand them for what they are, you being to get a clear picture of the entire Progressive movement, which is still very much rooted in the ideology of Hitlers pre-war Germany.


All government is authoritarian. American Democrats, in general, don't lie about it; Republicans do.


Hmm. Are we talking about any form of authoritarian policy here or a guiding principal of govt. as described in the article you linked to frame the debate? If the former, then yes every society on Earth is authoritarian (not just govt.), which negates the entire commentary in the article. If the latter, then no, not all government is authoritarian.


No, the prevalence of authoritarianism in one form or degree in most human hierarchical systems does not automatically negate the entire article I posted in the OP. That's merely a generic rhetorical attempt on your part.

Yes, every government, religion, social club, and even Little League teams are authoritarian to some degree. That's just a basic fact.

The degree of authoritarianism being decried in the OP is different than merely a hierarchical system of organization/management.


I agree with this, so let's stop using the authority prevalent in every society in the same context as the premise of the OP and the article it references.

My "generic rhetorical attempt" was a an option for an answer to the question I posed. You answered it as option 2 (the latter)
edit on 2/11/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

One of the things that might give us perspective is the 1980s. I'm guessing you're old enough to have lived through them and the West was living in 'interesting times.' There was economic growth and yet we had Cold War jitters and could see the world bleakly if in the right mood. Others might focus on the prosperity and 'we won the Cold War' and they'll be missing out some of the genuine anxieties and dreams.

I remind myself of that because we're on the threshold of 'interesting times' again. It's reminiscent of the 1930s where not just one notorious leader arose, but a handful of them across the world. Maybe we're heading that way and we can only hope that sense will prevail in the long run.



NEITHER "side" in American politics is truly libertarian (not the party Libertarian) or focused on the rights and value of individuals rather than the government.

And whether the opposite of "authoritarian" is "libertarian" or "revolutionary" or "anarchist" remains to be seen.


God yes. No more heroes any more. It's been a fascinating couple of years watching political terminology being revised, reinvented and sometimes devalued. People could find themselves nitpicking qualities and terminology and fail to see the 'Emperor's New Clothes.' Is it possible that Post-modernism in PR and politics has helped to make discussions very knotty?



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Why would we stop stalking about authoritarianism? That's the topic. Granted, we're looking at the innate authoritarian responses becoming more and more clear in the Party of Trump ... but as Kandinsky said ... this is not a US only phenomenon nor is it a "Republican only" phenomenon ... but that is the discussion. The indeterminate argument that "both sides do the same thing" is relative and not the focus here.


edit on 2-11-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




you either missed the point, or more likely, went off the comments of others here.


Your entire set of opinions are based off of George Soros social engineering, so I think it is you that "went off the comments of others."



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

I don't mind paying taxes to live in a town with services and schools and taking care of the poor. Don't care to live in the bush. Your response is authoritarian in that you don't believe laws should be applied equally. Just according to your own philosophy, which is the only right one according to you.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

Yep. I'm 50 this year.

Cycles. Yes, overall that's the way I see what the OP is pointing toward (which, as stated is one-sided, and as was further stated, was my point-of-departure for discussing the innate "Movement" toward a more authoritarian world-view (coupled with political violence).

Interesting that you call out Postmodernism as the forebear of our current post-fact political milieu. Sadly, since I never take the opportunity here to do much more in discussion than challenge the factual nature of many "right-wing" generic fallacies, folks have a skewed version of my beliefs, particularly since honesty requires me to state that I'm registered Democratic and consider myself a Constitutional leftist.

Taking that masque off for a quick minute ... I literally cannot believe that Hillary Clinton (who I know to be an intelligent, gifted politician, although not very likable and certainly not "honest") was "dumb" enough to pull this stunt with the emails, then make half-true (though politically viable) public statements that have been challenged ever since.

Beating Donald Trump should have been virtually a NO BRAINER for any Democrat. Yet, at this point, they're within spitting distance of each other.

(Conversely, beating Hillary Clinton should have been virtually a NO BRAINER for any Republican. I mean, come on.)

Politics, to me, is the human science of the distribution of power. On the spectrum between tyranny and anarchy, there are many places at which we could all live comfortably, if not in complete alignment with every single aspect.

I tend more toward individual freedom. That has in the past set me against the party of the War on Drugs, War on LGBT Americans, War on Alternate Religions, War on non-White Races, etc.

That doesn't mean that the other Party is my preference ... just that it's less dangerous to me and mine (at the moment.)
edit on 2-11-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Hiya MOM, I noticed that Gryphon's thread had gone the way of defence versus attack and wanted to add something that wasn't party political. It's more important in my world that international politics could be becoming more authoritarian. It's politically 'nobody's friend' and offers fake security at the cost of individualism and liberty. I fear for the world when such ideas take precedence again. They didn't work in the 20th Century and won't work in this one.

Even though I'm moderately political, I don't want to get drawn into right versus left sides. That's why I wasn't specifically aiming criticism at the GOP or saying the Dems would never become Authoritarian. Plus I'm UK and try hard not become aligned with the US political groups.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: Winstonian
a reply to: Gryphon66




you either missed the point, or more likely, went off the comments of others here.


Your entire set of opinions are based off of George Soros social engineering, so I think it is you that "went off the comments of others."


1. You have no idea of my "entire set of opinions."

2. You're obsessed with George Soros; this causes you to deny reality.

3. Your argument is the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I."



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: UKTruth

I don't mind paying taxes to live in a town with services and schools and taking care of the poor. Don't care to live in the bush. Your response is authoritarian in that you don't believe laws should be applied equally. Just according to your own philosophy, which is the only right one according to you.



So you do think it is authoritarian to not force other people to do what you want. Interesting.
Why should the fact that you don't mind doing something, like pay extra taxes, mean that everyone should?

Everything you mentioned, except the argument on abortion, are the very opposite of authoritarian. They all remove obligation. What you want is to oblige others to adhere to your way of thinking through the implementation of laws and taxes.

As for the abortion debate, well as I mentioned, the Idaho laws seem like a pretty reasonable balance and do not represent an authoritarian approach at all.




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