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The GOPs Age of Authoritarianism Has Only Begun - New York Magazine

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posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:10 PM
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originally posted by: Advantage

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Advantage
There are so many reasons that perhaps in a very close chapter of the history of our country we need a dictator/authoritarian to get some of you and them under control... or burn the chaff.

I'm a "real" centrist.. and I like neither candidate, though I'm voting for Trump for obvious reasons, . . . .


Can you please clarify those reasons that are not obvious to me why Trump?

And BTW - - I don't necessarily disagree on the dictator/authoritarian at this time.


Sure.

I put it in the first post, but because I want to see it all burn and everyone exposed in the chaos.


Destroy America's political system, so it can be rebuilt?


These people have been raping this country, its people... and literally others.. for way too long.


How would you do things differently?


Trump is chaos.. he has a lot of the beliefs of the old Democrats.. and was only running Republican for the base votes. IMO..


I'm not sure Trump has any beliefs beyond Take Care of Trump.If anyone's gonna rape the country, I'd say it will be Trump.


Even if he accomplishes only ONE thing I will be astonished and happy : term limits.


I'm still on the fence in regards to term limits. What limit do you suggest?




posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:12 PM
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Trump made a deal with the devil. He will tire of the presidency or get impeached. Then the deal is Pence as President and I think Ryan would be the second in power then. Our democratic elections and republic are under attack.



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:15 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
Trump made a deal with the devil. He will tire of the presidency or get impeached. Then the deal is Pence as President and I think Ryan would be the second in power then. Our democratic elections and republic are under attack.


Oh YAY!

Dominions.

endtimepilgrim.org...


edit on 1-11-2016 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: MOMof3
Trump made a deal with the devil. He will tire of the presidency or get impeached. Then the deal is Pence as President and I think Ryan would be the second in power then. Our democratic elections and republic are under attack.


Oh YAY!

Dominions.



Your post (unintentionally I think) puts me in mind of the most ridiculous (and that's really saying something) post in all the Praise Trump threads ... apparently DJT is a SPIRITUAL WARRIOR who is going to do battle with all the evil principalities and powers ... (Dominions were an old medieval ranking of Angel.)

I literally had to turn off the computer and walk away from it. I would have gotten myself banned in short order.



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: MOMof3
Trump made a deal with the devil. He will tire of the presidency or get impeached. Then the deal is Pence as President and I think Ryan would be the second in power then. Our democratic elections and republic are under attack.


Oh YAY!

Dominions.



Ah, that kind of Dominionism.

Yea. At some speech today or yesterday, he repeated that he wants to get rid of the Johnson Amendment ... churches have been held hostage long enough.

It's getting absolutely surreal. And they BUY THIS CRAP from playboy-putty-grabber Donald J. Trump.



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:22 PM
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So I made the mistake of stopping back by this thread to see if it had come back down to earth and instead found you all hyping yourselves to new heights of hyperbole. Congrats! You all are jumping the shark.

1. It has yet to be determined that anything is going to happen beyond the status quo. I mean that's all electing Hillary will mean at a minimum and we can all keep griping for another 4 years about how nothing has changed.

2. Even if Trump does get elected, all I see is that your preferred ideology is going to have to stop running rough shod for a short span. Egads! You might have to acknowledge that you aren't in as large a majority as you thought you were and learn to temper your ideas some.



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:26 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
So I made the mistake of stopping back by this thread to see if it had come back down to earth and instead found you all hyping yourselves to new heights of hyperbole. Congrats! You all are jumping the shark.

1. It has yet to be determined that anything is going to happen beyond the status quo. I mean that's all electing Hillary will mean at a minimum and we can all keep griping for another 4 years about how nothing has changed.

2. Even if Trump does get elected, all I see is that your preferred ideology is going to have to stop running rough shod for a short span. Egads! You might have to acknowledge that you aren't in as large a majority as you thought you were and learn to temper your ideas some.


You've missed the point completely.

You still see this as a "Democrat versus Republican" issue.

The issue is the authoritarianism at the heart of all politics.

You think your team is winning, so you can afford to be gracious.

Here's the real deal. If we don't put this out-in-the-open love of giving an authoritarian "Great Figure" power to "clean things up" and at some future point hope that they will "give that power back" we are living through a fundamental change in the American Republic.

That's the exact logic that fuels EVERY dictatorship. And not just the political rhetoric you like to throw at folks like Obama.



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:28 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: MOMof3
Trump made a deal with the devil. He will tire of the presidency or get impeached. Then the deal is Pence as President and I think Ryan would be the second in power then. Our democratic elections and republic are under attack.


Oh YAY!

Dominions.



Ah, that kind of Dominionism.

Yea. At some speech today or yesterday, he repeated that he wants to get rid of the Johnson Amendment ... churches have been held hostage long enough.

It's getting absolutely surreal. And they BUY THIS CRAP from playboy-putty-grabber Donald J. Trump.


Yes, that kind of Dominionism

Thought I'd better put the link to clarify.

I know these 2 VP's to be - - are both Catholic - but, one is more hard core then the other.

The Political Christian Right is primarily Southern Baptist (in voice) - - who are, in part, descended from the original Puritans. And I assume you know the real truth about their "religious freedom".

They'd just love to get hold of the presidency.

edit on 1-11-2016 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I know more than I could ever want to know ... first hand ... I was "raised" in that crap.

I have spent 40 years ridding myself of it.



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:33 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Annee

I know more than I could ever want to know ... first hand ... I was "raised" in that crap.

I have spent 40 years ridding myself of it.


You poor thing.

My mom was Catholic - - but, believed in everyone finding their own path. Lucky Me



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

The GOPs Age of Authoritarianism Has Only Begun , while Obama's is going on 8 Years of it Right Now ....


Weak sauce.

Stick with the good stuff you had going earlier! Tell me how Trump is going to clean up all the nastiness ...



He Ignores Congress , Files Numerous Unconstitutional Executive Orders , Helps Pass Obamacare Knowing Full Well it was a Ponzi Scheme , Intentionally Not Securing U.S. Boarders , the List could go on . Authoritarianism , the Man is a Living Breathing example of it . Mr. Trump is Not a President yet , but it is OK for you to Make Something Out of Nothing . FAIL



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Congress should be ignored when they refuse to do their Constitutional duty.

Name one unconstitutional Executive Order. ONE.

Actually, he did very little to pass the ACA, and it's based on Republican concepts (individual mandate, etc.)

He's deported more illegal aliens than any President in recent history.

The list could go on, but it would still be as ridiculous as this one.



posted on Nov, 1 2016 @ 11:49 PM
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I think the problem is that, because Trump has become the galvanizing rally point if you will for the right and all its platform issues (and that includes things that, despite being very liberal, I actually don't always totally disagree with... for example, that we could probably negotiate better trade deals, or that we can probably save some tax revenues through greater efficiency... just not to the extremes Trump et al advocate, but I digress...) any time Trump is criticized, those who support even some of those values feel, en mass, attacked. And therefore ever more willing to defend their "side" or "team."

This is obviously a very simple concept that doesn't need explained, and it happens on both sides. Just watching how sports teams' fans act towards one another displays the basic psychology involved. I'm not saying anything particularly deep or revelatory. But when those massive group dynamics and personal adherence to a platform come into play, you end up with people being willing to overlook even things they profoundly disagree with (such as Trump's statements about women, and/or Clinton's email issues and weather-main statements over the years by both) in order to support what has become the "only hope" in your mind for the parts you do agree with.

That's how people who advocate some imo truly horrifying things can end up getting elected. Not because people agreed with all of it, or maybe even most of it, but because when every choice is far less than ideal, choosing the lesser of two evils from each side's point of view can mean choosing someone really... well... evil. (I'm speaking rhetorically, I'm not labeling either candidate evil myself. Lamentable and extremely troubling? Absolutely.)

I say all of this as mere preface to my real point, which is one I've repeated throughout this election process, and is this: for all the reasons this article in the OP describes, and others, while this election is indeed worrying, I'm not as worried about this election as I am - by orders of magnitude - about what comes after it. Two, three election cycles from now, if all these trends continue. *Shudders*

Right now, while congress is worrying as well, they're still likely to place limits on the most extreme proposals by either party's candidate, believe it or not. Even conservative analysts for example don't think a republican controlled congress would pass a spending bill, even one tied to hopes for some sort of miraculous trade deal with Mexico to help offset those costs, for a wall. And that's just one example, and applies equally to both sides. Like all candidates, they promise a lot, but once in office, congress holds the purse strings. All a president can do is negotiate, and veto. (And executive orders, but not in regard to the kinds of things we're talking about.)

But if this sort of sentiment becomes the norm - If it becomes the general attitude of a large enough portion of the electorate, if congressmen and women start dropping like flies and getting replaced over the next few cycles because they "don't go far enough," then... well... then we have a horrible scenario on our hands, and whoever is president three or four or five terms from now, might be who we really need to worry about.

And again, just so no one assumes otherwise... I'm not voting for either of them. Nor am I saying either side are saints. Especially not this year.

Peace.
edit on 11/1/2016 by AceWombat04 because: Tipetoe through the tulips... I mean typos.

edit on 11/1/2016 by AceWombat04 because: *tiptoe. I typo'd my note about typos. "D'oh"



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 02:09 AM
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a reply to: AceWombat04

Your point is well-taken.

This isn't going away on November 9th.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 02:12 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

"The party has grown increasingly reliant upon white identity politics to supply its votes, which has left an indelible imprint on not only the Republican Party’s function but also its form. Right-wing populism has had the same character for decades "

Great propaganda piece. Literally Hitler!

I love the people that use weaponized identity politics accusing others of using identity politics. It's like we are living in gd bizarrro world.

This crybaby "racism" screaming is over. It is a big fat lie hand delivered by your master George Soros, destroyer of nations and engineer of crushed societies.

You should go get a job with Media Matters, you would fit right in over there.

RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 02:16 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Congress should be ignored when they refuse to do their Constitutional duty.

Name one unconstitutional Executive Order. ONE.

Actually, he did very little to pass the ACA, and it's based on Republican concepts (individual mandate, etc.)

He's deported more illegal aliens than any President in recent history.

The list could go on, but it would still be as ridiculous as this one.



So what's the big deal about Trump deporting people?




posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 02:20 AM
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a reply to: Winstonian

There are similarities between all authoritarian systems, yes. We've discussed several between Trump's proposed governance style and Hitler's, acknowledged the logical issues with that ala Godwin, etc. etc. Your critique is noted.

You argue that identity politics exists but deny that white identity politics exists.

That seems absurd on its face.

The point-of-view in the article is not to decry racism; you either missed the point, or more likely, went off the comments of others here.

You missed the point almost completely.
edit on 2-11-2016 by Gryphon66 because: De snarked



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 02:23 AM
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originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Congress should be ignored when they refuse to do their Constitutional duty.

Name one unconstitutional Executive Order. ONE.

Actually, he did very little to pass the ACA, and it's based on Republican concepts (individual mandate, etc.)

He's deported more illegal aliens than any President in recent history.

The list could go on, but it would still be as ridiculous as this one.



So what's the big deal about Trump deporting people?



The Obama administration is doing it legally?

Obama hasn't insulted millions of Americans by offhandedly comparing them to rapists and drug pushers?

Obama hasn't suggested that we trample the First Amendment by applying a religious test for entry and immigration?

That'd be a few guesses to start.



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 08:29 AM
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Having read through the article this morning, all 13 pages of it, I have the following observations.

To start with, the author discredits himself from the get go, with a stream of ad hominem attacks against Trump. No matter, ignoring the authors' disqualification as a serious journalist, I wanted to understand his points.

The opening is somewhat contradictory... if the 'Great man Theory' has been deposed with better understanding of the social forces that really shape society, then why is the author falling back on it to set up the article. He doesn't really explain it with anything more than some character assessments of Trump.

One of the things discussed after the opening relates to Trumps' 'fluid' ideas on policy, which does not really sit well with a crazy dictator and authoritarian. Fluidity, at least to me, seems like a positive attribute and sets Trump apart from the dogma that usually resides in the mind of a dictator.

The idea that the GOP is uniting around a set of authoritarian principals also rings hollow. The GOP has been changed by the people supporting Trump. Many of them have no affiliation to the more extreme forms of right-wing politics that the author discusses. Indeed, Trump has significantly shifted the party away from some of the extreme views on subjects like abortion and gay rights. Trump is more centre-right than the party of 2012. The idea of the author that there is now no difference between republican and conservative is plainly wrong, clearly evidenced from the wide spectrum of people who have joined the movement Trump is spearheading.

I still can not reconcile the idea that the GOP is moving in an authoritarian direction when Trump's stated aim is to devolve power back to the states. The author seems to suggest that people are voting for Trump in the hope they can grab power and that somehow this is authoritarian. It's actually the opposite. The people should hold power, not a huge centralised government that dictates policy.

The authors' link between Republicans and White Supremacy is a clear inversion of reality. It's not Republicans with a history of White Supremacy, its the Democrats. Similarly, accusing Republicans of identity politics seems like the mother of all deflections. The country, in fact the West generally, has been ravaged by identity politics for the last decade. The Democrats have unashamedly used the black community and immigration to foster an ideology to ensure continued support.

The authors injection of Russia into the debate and an association to Trump also left me feeling that the whole piece really didn't deserve my time to read and comment - but, oh well, I did anyway. Russia is not the big bad wolf on the world scene the same way as the USSR was and we're yet to see even a modicum of evidence that Trump or anyone in the GOP is colluding with Russia to influence the elections or indeed any shred of similarity between the proposed policies of the GOP and Russian governmental practices.

Finally, I saw through the 'wealth redistribution' argument related to tax cuts. Of course tax cuts are going to give more to the millionaire, but the man on welfare also gets more. But, this fact is dismissed in favour of a faux battle between the millions on welfare and their money being given to rich people. It's a fallacy, of course, but it makes a dramatic point. No discussion on taxes can be taken seriously without a related discussion on the economy. Ultimately, I believe people care about impacts on their daily lives and their ability to live well and support their families. If a constant struggle to pay the bills is replaced with a god job, more income and greater ability to reward oneself (as opposed to being given a hand out) then I do not believe that anyone worries too much about someone else who might have got more. There is also the undeniable fact that under the 'big govt' control of the last decade the gap between the rich and poor has become wider than ever. It has not happened because of conservative principals.

In summary, the article is a well written piece by a person unable to separate the emotional reaction to someone who holds different views. That emotion has led him to make false claims and associations, invert reality, and wrap the whole work of fiction up into an authoritarian headline to invoke the very image that he is scared of. It's an image in the authors mind, not the reality of the world.






edit on 2/11/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2016 @ 10:23 AM
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So...... the party whose central tenets are LESS government, LESS regulation, and LESS taxation are now ushering in a new "Age of Authoritarianism" ? How did I miss this?



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