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The GOPs Age of Authoritarianism Has Only Begun - New York Magazine

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posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Why not point us to the master plan discussed in the OP? So far there is nothing in this thread to support the views of the article. All I can see are partisan claims dressed up as a giant conspiracy of Christians to lead the GOP into persecuting and oppressing. Just craziness.




posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:34 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Gryphon66

As you well know politicians constantly flip flop or if you are bring kind, refine. We all know the other candidate has changed her positions many times, so why not take Trumps last position?
You need to move on and debate the actual positions being taken.


Clinton is not the topic of this particular discussion. It's not a matter of "moving on" it's a matter of the alt-right beliefs and policy positions that Mr. Trump has adopted (sadly).

The position that he would stop all Muslims from entering this country was intentional. It was not a slip of the tongue. You and the other apologist can claim differently but as seen in multiple arguments the alt-right position is that it's okay to discriminate against non-Christians in a Trump America.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:35 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Indeed. As much as I would like to think that things can't get any worse, I am afraid the reality of the situation begs for thoughtful discourse. And partisan? So what? As the saying goes, you can't be neutral on a moving train.

I think that in this case, correcting the author's mistake actually makes his argument even stronger.

Just to add a bit more. Most people are unaware of the Council for National Policy. A NYT article from 2004:

THE 2004 CAMPAIGN: THE CONSERVATIVES; Club of the Most Powerful Gathers in Strictest Privacy


Three times a year for 23 years, a little-known club of a few hundred of the most powerful conservatives in the country have met behind closed doors at undisclosed locations for a confidential conference, the Council for National Policy, to strategize about how to turn the country to the right.


Fast forward to 2016

The two political operatives chosen earlier this month to lead Donald Trump’s presidential campaign after two former managers departed have been members of the secretive Council for National Policy


Bannon and Conway.


“At a time of extreme political polarization in our society, in the middle of an ugly presidential contest which has featured an almost unsurpassed record of ethnic, racial and sexual insults and lies, Americans deserve to know who their ostensible leaders are mixing with as we collectively decide our country’s future.”


The GOP will in effect give political power to those in their base who are John Birchers, white nationalists/supremacists and right wing anarchists.

Party establishment will deceive themselves into thinking that they can control this attack dog, but I'm afraid they will be as helpless as the local man who thought he could control his viscous watch dog that ended up tearing off part of the scalp of a young visitor.
edit on 3-11-2016 by desert because: grammar



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:38 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Gryphon66

Why not point us to the master plan discussed in the OP? So far there is nothing in this thread to support the views of the article. All I can see are partisan claims dressed up as a giant conspiracy of Christians to lead the GOP into persecuting and oppressing. Just craziness.


Perhaps because you're fabricating the argument that the OP describes a "master plan" of any sort?

All you see is what you want to see. You've ignored multiple facts brought in support what I claimed, to wit, that the current path of the GOP is one of greater open authoritarian policies based on a history that has grown ever more authoritarian.
edit on 3-11-2016 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I see, so hypocrisy it is then. Gotcha.
The point is relevant. All politicians change views. You framing an argument based on an old position is weak.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:42 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Why not try and show some evidence of this great authoritarian take over? So far all you have are some scary stories. We may as well be sitting around a campfire fire.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

The problem is that Trump goes agains the tide on a few crucial issues of our times:

Globalisation
Immigration
Corporations over states
Trade deals / Commercial blocks
Nationalism / Patriotism

Those in charge now, the Corporations, the Media have an opposite vision to Trump on all these subjects so they try to paint him as a reincarnation of past dictators.

Trump is not a dictator, is a stiff guy who knows that his path is lonely or eventually with the a few uncorrupted military generals and that many will have to be killed in order to revert the Globalist agenda of the so called NWO

This reminds me when Putin came into power, many criminals, crooked businessmen, corrupt had to be shot, for about a year these news were recurrent, then, after the purge, normal people could have a small business again free from the mafia free from being threatened and beaten by extortionists.

If Trump wins and does this, you can only be thankful because men like these don´t appear many times in a century and when they do they almost always start by doing a great job. In time they tend to degenerate and that´s when we have to replace them for a new republic.

But I don´t think Trump goes that far.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:43 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Gryphon66

I see, so hypocrisy it is then. Gotcha.
The point is relevant. All politicians change views. You framing an argument based on an old position is weak.



Now you're lying. I won't play your straw man game and now you're going to leave all pretense of cogent argument.

I'll be ignoring you unless you say something relevant.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

OK, I will leave you to your wing nut conspiracy theories.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: CrapAsUsual

It's not a matter of Trump (or the movement he is capitalizing on) facing opposition from the corporate media. That's merely a logical cop-out.

The OP and many others in this thread have given multiple fact based arguments for the similarities between Trumps policies and many historical authoritarian regimes.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:48 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Gryphon66

As you well know politicians constantly flip flop or if you are bring kind, refine. We all know the other candidate has changed her positions many times, so why not take Trumps last position?
You need to move on and debate the actual positions being taken.



That would involve a level of honesty not seen in the left for decades.




posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:49 AM
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a reply to: burgerbuddy

True that.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 07:54 AM
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From the original source

Republicans won’t necessarily need to moderate their plans to beat her in 2020. To compete, they may only need Trumpism with a human face (and, perhaps, human hair as well).


Just who is the Council for National Policy, and why isn't it paying taxes?


Most Americans – even many self-professed political junkies – probably have never heard of CNP or would confuse it with countless other groups with similarly unremarkable names (including the Center for National Policy, a liberal group). But conservative activists would know what Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has referred to as "the heart of a great conservative movement that helped to make America strong and prosperous in the 20th century – and is now helping to ensure she remains free and secure in the 21st century," or what Indiana Republican Congressman Mike Pence has called "the most influential gathering of conservatives in America." But because CNP has been so successful at maintaining its secrecy – flouting the law for more than two decades – it has managed to obscure the depth of its reach in conservative political organizations, political fundraising, the conservative media, and even the Bush administration itself.



Other conservative elected officials continue to speak at CNP meetings and go unnoticed by the media. Congressman Mike Pence, an Indiana Republican who recently was named a "Hero of the Taxpayer" by Americans for Tax Reform, the anti-government group led by Grover Norquist, who has for years served on CNP's board of directors, was the keynote speaker at CNP's March 2004 meeting in San Diego. Pence posted his speech on his web site in March, but currently only has a press release about the speech. In the speech, Pence announced, "I am a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican – in that order ... I am deeply humbled to address CNP, the most influential gathering of conservatives in America!" The speech, which was filled with biblical references, contained thinly veiled hints that Bush ought to pay attention if he wanted to have the support of true conservatives come November. While he battered the president for expanding government and government spending, he hailed him for his stand on tax cuts, national defense, and same-sex marriage, concluding that "our cause" is "to stand with our captain as he leads us well, to right the ship in that where she is adrift, and to support his every effort to set her right."



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




The OP and many others in this thread have given multiple fact based arguments for the similarities between Trumps policies and many historical authoritarian regimes.


I know but you could also find all those policies on democratic regimes and you can find some dictatorships with better human rights records than some democracies...

Things are not black and white and as history has proven regimes get corrupted and forms of government tend to replace each other.

If we the people are aware of this we will accept that we need strong fist dictators once in a while to clean the house and then replace them with a democratic open regime to live life a bit.

This will happen until mankind does not invent the perfect form of government which in my opinion should be something like a mix of comunism/, popular democracy, anarchy.

Sharing material stuff
Not electing people but choosing ideas
Not having leaders because we decide the policies ourselves.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 09:38 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: UKTruth

No, I have not lost my mind. I live in a state run by republicans and their different gods. Our elected officials are colluding with other elected officials from another state, Utah, to take our public lands and have special auctioned hunts for the rich. Against the wishes of the Idaho citizens. I think they will pay a price at the polls.



Idaho? Poor you.

Right Supremacist and Fundamental Mormons.

A shoe-string family member moved there for a short time. They left before they got forced out.

Seems there's a type of "Controlled Kingdom" going on - - - that don't want outsiders sticking their noses in.

I always feel for the "good" people, like yourself, that want to live normal lives.




Sounds like an anecdotal story. Controlled kingdom, come on now.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Kandinsky

We don't have as much religious influence over here and I'd feel just like you if we did. I don't think religion (any of them) should have a place in the business of local politics and budgets.



I don't think "outsiders" truly comprehend the extreme influence and control of the Religious Political Right and the dominance of Christianity as a whole in America.

Look to the facts of the Puritans of England, and you get an idea of how serious it is.

They'd make America a Christian Theocracy in a second, if they could.

(No, not all Christians).







How are Christians oppressing you? It sounds very serious...


As I stated.

Outsiders don't comprehend it.


I see. So try and explain it to an outsider to America. It must have changed a lot since I was there. I didn't realise the Christians were oppressing people in some extreme ways...It sounds really horrific.


I've had good conversations with you before.

But, you have Tunnel Vision IMO. You've made up your mind to see things in a certain way.

You didn't realize the Christian religion was oppressing people in America? Really? Are you Christian?

--------------------------------------------------

And now I need to go watch a new way of killing pigs in Minecraft.

Life goes on




I am asking you for an example pertinent to the thread.
I grew up as a Catholic in a mixed marriage (father was not Catholic). I did not get confirmed mainly due to having to stomach being 'taught' by Jesuit priests. I know all about Christian fundamentalism, which exists (as it does in all religions). But I am quite shocked at the accusation that the Republican party is governing based on extreme view of Christianity with authoritarian enforcement, and I would like at least one example.


Hobby Lobby.

There you go.


Please explain how Hobby Lobby uses authoritarian enforcement.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: CrapAsUsual

Authoritarianism and "democracy" are not necessarily opposite.

No things are not "black and white."

No, I reject that we ever "need" a "strong fist leader" in the United States. Strong fists don't like to return power.

Communism per se has never been tried; I personally believe it's a philosophical ideal at best.

The closest system I can devise to a "perfect" government is our own constitutional republic, admittedly, with a reduction in bureaucracy and corporate interference (lobbying, etc.)

The US Constitution describes a system that allows a people to thrive striking a balance between National power, State and Local power and individual rights and freedoms.

I admit my bias, but I just can't imagine a much better system.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 10:08 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



Taking that masque off for a quick minute ... I literally cannot believe that Hillary Clinton (who I know to be an intelligent, gifted politician, although not very likable and certainly not "honest") was "dumb" enough to pull this stunt with the emails, then make half-true (though politically viable) public statements that have been challenged ever since.

Neither can I - believe it. I just can't. I've thought about this a lot. I mean - over and over

Not honest - versus secretive? Or, not honest and secretive? Any way we look at it she's problematic. Also, not charismatic - which is what we all crave, and makes her problems easier to attack. Apparently

I have a point - honest :-)

There are reasons for everything. Was this a choice or lazy carelessness?

There's either a bigger story here than we're all willing to consider, or, outside of partisan politics it's a really lame story and meaningless. Since she was Secretary of State and not unintelligent - I'm thinking bigger story

Like everyone, I've been watching this story not so much unfold as be replayed over and over until we're all hypnotized. I keep going back to the beginning - why?

Since your OP is about the GOP and growing, predatory, purposeful authoritarianism, I have to wonder if her not playing by the rules was tactical. Authoritarianism isn't exactly known for playing by the rules in the first place



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 11:31 AM
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I wondered about this the other day, when Thiel made another public speech. The same OP author says it well....


Thiel demonstrates one of the major points in my argument about Trump and the rising authoritarianism of the Republican Party: Its behavior arises out of the growing conviction on the right that conservative economic policies no longer stand much chance of winning democratic majorities. The conventional wisdom sees the party as deeply and irrevocably split between its elite Paul Ryan wing and its Trump wing, probably headed toward civil war. My argument holds that the two wings are closely related. Ryan, Grover Norquist, the Wall Street Journal editorial page, the Koch brothers, and other advocates of the traditional party economic agenda have given him at least muted support. Economic libertarianism contains an intrinsic fear of the majority using the ballot box to redistribute resources from the few to the many. That terror is the basis of Ayn Rand’s novels, which inspired Paul Ryan’s career in public life.



To be sure, many libertarians oppose Trump. The most anti-Trump libertarians are the ones who place the least emphasis on economic policy — who are, naturally, also the libertarians with the weakest attachment to Republican politics in the first place.

My argument that the party is lurching toward a synthesis of libertarian (economic) ends harnessed to authoritarian means may sound at first blush like a contradiction. But Thiel is a helpful illustration of the reality that right-wing libertarianism is far more comfortable with authoritarianism than you might presume.


Peter Thiel and the Authoritarian-Libertarian Alliance for Trump

more on Thiel's Republican advice....

Peter Thiel wants America to take Trump seriously, but not literally. That’s dangerous.


For people who want a single ruler, without the checks and balances of democracy, the lack of policy details is appealing in itself. Without the accountability of specific proposals, the leader is unconstrained by policy, decency, or even logic. The public in general doesn’t need to know policy details for democracy to function. But a democracy that has no regard for literal truth won’t be a democracy for long. That’s a reason to take Trump’s candidacy even more seriously, perhaps, than Thiel is willing to do.


Two things. One, too many voters (of any political persuasion) are currently unaware of their party's platform, preferring the personal narrative about an opponent. (Current Libertarian candidates do not even understand their own party platform!) Two, the particular way of self-governing our founders gave us (via the Constitution and tradition) no longer exists; Compromise is out, obstructionism is in.


For people who want a single ruler, without the checks and balances of democracy, the lack of policy details is appealing in itself. Without the accountability of specific proposals, the leader is unconstrained by policy, decency, or even logic. The public in general doesn’t need to know policy details for democracy to function. But a democracy that has no regard for literal truth won’t be a democracy for long. That’s a reason to take Trump’s candidacy even more seriously, perhaps, than Thiel is willing to do.


I will add, however, that there are Trump followers who do take him literally. There WILL BE a wall, mass deportations, and whatever else Trump says he wants done. Literally.



posted on Nov, 3 2016 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

The only things I come up with are

a) Hillary's "culture" ... Hillary and the founder of my company were the same age. It took me years to get her to use email. She never conceived of it as anything other than "like talking to someone on the phone."

b) Hillary knew just how weak the email protections were in State (and Defense, etc.) and chose her own security.

c) As you say Something Other than we know about or can guess.

On the other hand, I also know that the "private email thing" was simply not an issue until brought up as a political attack on Clinton, vis-a-vis, the Bush White House, Powell, Rice, Chaffetz, Gowdy etc. using non-government emails ... but still, it boggles the mind that we just "leave the doors open" like this at the national level.




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