Yeah...I'm thinking again.....and disgusted again.

Originally posted by Valhall
What I don't understand, and no Christian basher has ever made clear to me is the following:

You have rejected the Christian beliefs

Dictionary
de·gust (dĭ-gŭst', dē-) pronunciation
tr.v., -gust·ed, -gust·ing, -gusts.

To taste with relish; savor.

[Latin dēgustāre : dē-, de- + gustāre, to taste.]
de'gus·ta'tion (dē'gŭ-stā'shən) n.

Val, A-men

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Its been my experience that believers know that we revolve around the truth.

NON-believers think the truth revolves around their opinion (along with most of the universe).

The reason people constantly come at you, Mr Christian, is because you are Mr Christian.

Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.



[edit on 5-8-2005 by jake1997]

Here is the answer to the reson we need jesus. First GOD is perfect and we as humans are not. When we take the life of jesus and say yes Father i will let him live in me and through me we then try to show the light to others by the love and compassion we have for others. When i seen some one in need of food or clothing or anything that i have and they do not, i try my best to help them because it could be me and it hurts alot to see people doing with out and hurting. Here my belly is full and i have a home and transportation to get me around and they do not and a lot of time it is because they are very poor or have made bad choices in their lifes. The true faith is love and forgivness. The Father lets the sun shine on every one and gives water for all to drink. It is the church that has let down the world. Jesus was perfect and when we stand in front of the Father it is jesus he sees not us because no mater how good you are you will still fall short of the Fathers pefection and in jesus we are made perfect. When we live in the world that has so much hurting we as children of the Father should help those in need not because we will receive anything from the Father but because we truly care about our brothers and sisters. I came from a home were we were very poor and i saw other kids have things that i could not have and a lot of times i would go off and cry and i wished i could have a lot of money when i was older so i could help others. I am now 40 and when i do have somthing to give it is always with a hope that their pain will leave them even for a little while. most of churches on tv rake in the dollers and most of it comes from people that give small amounts to help those in need but the tv preachers spend a lot of this money on things for themselfs. Now it is not wrong for a man or women of GOD to make a living from the work they do in the lord but when the spend millions for homes and thousands for clothes for themselfs and their children it is a disgrace. They live way above their needs and the Father tells us it is wrong. Their are people going to churches and paying their tithes and then cannot meet their bills. I have seen this many times. Their are so many in the body of christ that are doing with out and it is a shame. jesus does not want or need a place that has to spend millions just to keep it running
All the money could be used for taking care of the suffering in a lot of lifes. It takes Benny Hinn 4 to 5 million to set up one of his crusades. Give me some loud speakers and a platform because i would not need the big tv screens for people to see me because it would be the word that was spoken that would change lifes and all the millions could be spent on all those in need. TV preachers make millions and spend it on things of the flesh and it is proven. God wants us to give to all that are in need this is the true meaning of the words of christ. A good man can never make it to heaven because he will still have sin in his life but those that have jesus are covered in the blood and that is what the Father sees. May the grace and peace be upon all that are the Father:hail uzi flamer:

[edit on 5-8-2005 by prophetseeker]

[edit on 5-8-2005 by prophetseeker]

What gives you the right to judge what people do with their own bodies? While we're at it.. what gives you the right to judge at all? Perhaps you should quote the bible [not serious], it says you are not suppose to judge others.. I'm guessing you pick and choose what you want to follow.

I judge noone. Judgement is for God alone. As a Christian I merely inform of what the Bible says on a subject. You do with that information as you will. My Bible says "Hate not the sinner, hate the sin".

(If these people are so hard down rigid on you must follow the word of god and the bible is the word of god...why do they still do things like get drunk, watch porn, lust after other woman/men when their married, lie, judge others?

Becauce we are born in a world of sin, and our flesh(body)is sin. We will always do things which god does not want. Why? Beause the body needs so many things its all lust(sin). It is not our right to judge others only god can do that. It a gamable Life after death. If you known where you may go and what hell is, you might change you mind. Poeple are so serious about God is beause God shown them something you might be blind to.

I'm hearing ya SLY.
I am one of the people Ladyv was refering to when she started this thread. Some people live such sinful lifestyles that the only way they can continue them and feel ok about it is to either denounce the Bible's validity or to change it to suit their own agenda. Noone wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore.
LadyV appears to be a very intelligent and caring person. I do however think that she does not understand that you do not have to accept a persons sins in order to love them. As a parent I can assure you that I have never stopped loving my children, nor will I ever, but they do things all of the time that I do not love. Things sometimes that I despise. Just because they do things that I despise doesn't mean that I love them less. You can love someone and tell them that they are wrong. I have a dear friend that is gay. He knows that I feel very strongly that his lifestyle is wrong. He asked me and I told him. If I alienated him and disasociated him then I would not truely be his friend. I only hope that when the time comes that he needs someone that he will see what I have in Jesus and he'll correct his life. The Bible hurts, it does. I am a Christian and it hurts me at times, It's hard to imagine what a Godless sinner would feel about it.

SIN.......To miss the mark!

As St. Paul writes, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23)
Our sins separate us from God (Isaiah 59:1, 2), leaving us spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1). To save us, the Son of God assumed our humanity, and being without sin "He condemned sin in the flesh" (Romans 8:3). In His mercy, God forgives our sins when we confess them and turn from them, giving us strength to overcome sin in our lives. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (I John 1:9).

Salvation is the divine gift through which men and women are delivered from sin and death, united to Christ, and brought into His eternal kingdom. Those who heard St. Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost asked what they must do to be saved. He answered, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). Salvation begins with these three steps: 1) repent, 2) be baptized, and 3) receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. To repent means to change our mind about how we have been, to turn from our sin and to commit ourselves to Christ. To be baptized means to be born again by being joined into union with Christ. And to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit means to receive the Spirit Who empowers us to enter a new life in Christ, to be nurtured in the Church, and to be conformed to God's image.

Teachings

quote/Jesus said, "Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
From its beginning, the Church has taught that the water is the baptismal water and the Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
The new birth occurs in baptism where we die with Christ, are buried with Him, and are raised with Him in the newness of His resurrection, being joined into union with Him in His glorified humanity (Acts 2:38; Romans 6:3-4).
see above link...

One is not saved by just believing in Jesus Christ.....not all will enter heaven because they are simply Christians....

IX
helen

Originally posted by deesw
I judge noone. Judgement is for God alone. As a Christian I merely inform of what the Bible says on a subject. You do with that information as you will. My Bible says "Hate not the sinner, hate the sin".

Thats a copout. You use the bible as a license to judge and abuse non christians. I'm quite sure most people know what the bible says on most issues.. and from what I remember of the may years of reading the bible.. it ecourages people to live like Jesus in kindness, compassion and tolerence. Most of his teaching were based on those ideals.. not based on condemnation. You really don't remind the of that Jesus at all.

Riley,
Ive seen you use this tack over and over again on Christians concerning Judgement. It doesnt wash..even with fellow Christians..Your position Riley is a cop out.

Christians are to judge Rightious Judgement. Meaning not thier judgement.

So many use the "cop out" that Christians are not to be judgemental in order to get them to default ..to be tolerant of anything and everything.

I have told you before Riley. If Christians dont judge..they will never know leven from unleven. New wine from olde. Good from evil. But will be tolerant of anything that comes down the "evolutionary"pipeline. And it is obvious that this is happening more and more and faster...events to judge as changes are forced upon believers ..against thier belief system.

Christians are to judge everything ..including other Christians..otherwise they will never know when to put out of the flock.

The doctrine is to "come out from amongst them and be ye seperate ..this requires judgement..in everything. It is perfectly logical and reasonable Riley.
Many Christians are ignorantly muted by a saying such as yours Riley. I am not one of them. I dont agree with Christians who do this and will tell them so. They are to have the ability to judge believers and non believers and seperate themselves from them. This cannot be done without sound Rightious Judgement.
Judgement does not mean tolerance. I dont know from whence you get this as if they are interchangable and now one can play through based on this default and neutering others on this judgement issue.

Thanks for everyones posts,
Orangetom

and from what I remember of the may years of reading the bible.. it ecourages people to live like Jesus in kindness, compassion and tolerence

Wrong again.
Jesus never tought tolerance. Jesus specificly stated " Hate not the sinner, yet hate the sin ". Jesus commamded that I love my neighbor as myself. He never commanded that I like or tolerate anyone.

riley quote Thats a copout. You use the bible as a license to judge and abuse non christians. I'm quite sure most people know what the bible says on most issues..


No one should But god himslef. But we all does things that God does not want. Alot of the time we judge with even knowing ( o he smells fuuny there not a good person.
quote
(Thats a copout. You use the bible as a license to judge and abuse non christians)

You make judgement just by saying that with even knowing the person.
Yes some christians judge but some dont. end the end why does it matter what others do should we not worry about our selfs?????????

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Riley,
Ive seen you use this tack over and over again on Christians concerning Judgement. It doesnt wash..even with fellow Christians..Your position Riley is a cop out.

No. It is meant to remind people that they do not have moral authority over others. I grow tired of people claiming to be delivering god's personal judgement when it is in fact their own. If I judge/critisize someone.. I don't pass the buck onto something like the bible to remove responsibilty for my own opinions.. that would be cowardly.

Christians are to judge Rightious Judgement. Meaning not thier judgement.

I see.. so if you call it "righteous Judement" it's okay? Gee.. thats quite a convenient loophole that one.

So many use the "cop out" that Christians are not to be judgemental in order to get them to default ..to be tolerant of anything and everything.

I'm remembering something about 'turn the other cheek' and 'love thy neighbour'.. must've been some eskimos who wrote that or something.

I have told you before Riley. If Christians dont judge..they will never know leven from unleven.

Now you are PROMOTING judging?

Christians are to judge everything ..including other Christians..otherwise they will never know when to put out of the flock.

:shk: gets better and better.

This cannot be done without sound Rightious Judgement.

Reminds me of "Good sound beating."
We both know everyone interprites the bible differently.. christians have NO idea what 'god' would have meant EXACTLY- if they did they would all read the bible the same way and would be sure the judgement is righetous as they'd know god's true meaning [do you know your god's mind..?]. This is probably why they aren't alloud to judge and are suppose to leave it for god to do when they die. Some christians would read your licence for 'righteous judgement' and be disgusted.

[edit on 10-8-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by slymattb
No one should But god himslef. But we all does things that God does not want. Alot of the time we judge with even knowing ( o he smells fuuny there not a good person.

It's human nature to judge.. and I actually respect the princible of not judgeing as it encourages people to have empathy for who they are judging. I don't have much respect for the bible as a whole [created another religion] but I actually love that proverb [buddha had a similar one]. I try understand the other person's perspective as much as possible [I don't walk in their shoes] ..but blind judment itself.. I have no respect for.. it nurtures biggotry and that is something that is destroying humanity.

[You make judgement just by saying that with even knowing the person.

I don't know him/her in real life. I judged his posts.. and they are biggoted and abusive.. and [if my memory serves correctly] he has been banned for making them before. In this thread he has questioned the right [as in what his god says] for people to teach evolution in public schools, be gay, practice 'witchcraft', abort pregnancies etc. when he obviously has done no research into why people do these things.. and he knows nothing of the personal life struggles and traumas they've had to go through. Are they going to hell? I'm near certain he thinks so.. but would his all forgiving god send them there? What gives him the 'right' to speak on god's behalf and tell people they answer to him and not their own god? Is this forum.. is this world multi cultural or christian? How are we suppose to put an end to wars etc. if people are going to impose their gods on others? Live and let live.

Yes some christians judge but some dont. end the end why does it matter what others do should we not worry about our selfs?????????

Wonderful sentiment.

[edit on 10-8-2005 by riley]

Before I have to shove off to other buisness you posted:

"What gives you the right to judge what people do with their own bodies? While we're at it.. what gives you the right to judge at all? Perhaps you should quote the bible [not serious], it says you are not suppose to judge others.. I'm guessing you pick and choose what you want to follow. "

What gives you the right to judge at all.

Notice I said Rightious judgement. ....not rightious judgement..this is not a cop out. Capital R..
Nice to overlook this in favor of your settings on your dial. All one has to do is open the Book and see if it is so in judgement. There are people on this board who know the difference.

Another poster stated that people judge lots of things..I agree with them. I will judge lots of things and even people. If I disagree with them I will tell them so and why. I'm not going to force myself on them. I will however reserve the right to seperate from them and not commune with them anymore. This requires judgement...the very thing this world does not want people to do. To get them to admit and take on any nutty thing or useless concept that comes down the pipe next week. Like a changing wind. Sorry not intrested once I judge a thing not worth the time.

Your lack of insight into this concept cuts out Christians from your belief system and tolerance. That is your buisness..but I will point this out.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Nicely put Orange. Feels good to finally see someone else on here that is not far left wing liberal minded.

orangetom1999/Riley
It seams to me your judgeing each other by what each is saying. The greatest commandment coming out of Jesus's mouth(MATT 22 v 34-40) " love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." second he said " LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

you should be helping each other more than judgeing each other. Your both right to a point, but end the end we should not judge each other, even if it is rightiness judgement we should not judge. But what we should do is know what is right and wrong. IF someone brakes the commandments who is to say he's going to hell.Jesus didnt come for the rightness, but for those that sinnith and are sinners. Even if he kills, god will know his heart.We cannot say one is wrong and is forever wrong, because god and jesus alone knows the hearts of men. Plus god will save whom he wants to save.You can only see what is on the out side and not know what is on the inside, therefore we should not judge. We sometimes judge a person on he actions according to what is wrightin in the bible. WE ALL MAKE MISTAKE. Some of you think you have good children, but dont they do things that are bad sometimes?? Does that make them not a good person, and does it make them comdemn.

We all do things that god does not want sometimes, but he forgives. All we need to know in this situation is yes people go to hell, yes people are sinner and stay sinning,yes there are those comdemned. But how are we going to save souls rightlly if we judge them?????????????

End the end God loves you both and you are both equally bless.


[edit on 10-8-2005 by slymattb]

Good post,
I understand what you are saying. My main point in judging is to know whether at thing is leven or unleven, new wine or olde. My understanding is to not mix the two. I am not here to extoll my "human virtues"as I know that my human virtues are rubbish/dung.
I do not tell people that they are going to hell etc ..which seems to be a bone of contention...with folks like Riley. I dont have a problem with this contention. I do understand this point. I cannot send Riley or anyone else to Hell or damnation..that is not my job to do so. Most Christians who do this seem to not understand this concept.
My knowlege and understanding is that all of us deserve hell and damnation..especially me..and the God I know would be perfectly just and rightious in sending men there...but it is still not in my power or authority to send anyone to hell and damnation. Christians also cannot save Riley or anyone else. Not possible.
I wont spend time with Riley quoting scripture as I am sure it would be a waste of time....not intended to insult you Riley. Skymattb ..I think also that Riley would also prefer that I not do so. Logic and reason are his baillywick as I understand his postings.
Nevertheless I pass judgement on certain things for the above stated reasons. Christians should know this but are often misled for the very reasons stated by Riley and others. Ignorance in many things..including Christianity. I do agree with him on this.

Thanks,
Orangetom

you posted:

"Nicely put Orange. Feels good to finally see someone else on here that is not far left wing liberal minded. "

No,I am not far left or liberal minded. I am also not republican. I am instead a conservative. I do not believe that the republican party is conservative.

There was a time however when I was very left wing and liberal minded. I would get all excited over any and every new thing to come down the pipe. Not so anymore. I used to live alot in what I call the "Fast Food Lane" High speed ,low drag.

I dont know exactly when this began to change but it changed in a manner of which I tried to stop and turn around and go back into the fast food lane ...again and again. Though I knew at some point the fast food lane was wrong and bad for me. I fought hard to stay in the lane. I began to know more about right and wrong ...Gods way..but the fast food lane called me..I tried many ways to escape obedience/conversion. I kept looking for one corner after another to escape into. I finally ran out of corners.
You know deesw...I do believe that some of the folks at work saw some of it before I fully realized what it was. Not believers so much but the unbelievers with whom I used to run in the fast food lane..the life of excesses. They noted that I didnt run with them anymore...or as was in times past. Somehow that life lost its attraction to me. It was not a sweet savor anymore. Its not that I was not civil with them anymore ..it was just that I didnt react to them as was before and this began to be noted by them. I dont miss that life anymore and I save alot more moneys and have things to show for the moneys I spend.
I think deesw that you understand what I am saying and why it is this way for I can certainly assure you .it was not my doing ..this change.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Before I have to shove off to other buisness you posted:

"What gives you the right to judge what people do with their own bodies? While we're at it.. what gives you the right to judge at all? Perhaps you should quote the bible [not serious], it says you are not suppose to judge others.. I'm guessing you pick and choose what you want to follow. "

What gives you the right to judge at all.

When I start judging women I don't know who have had abortions, homosexuals, pagens etc. let me know.

Notice I said Rightious judgement. ....not rightious judgement..this is not a cop out. Capital R..
Nice to overlook this in favor of your settings on your dial. All one has to do is open the Book and see if it is so in judgement. There are people on this board who know the difference.

Oh.. so if you put a capital R in 'righteous'.. it makes judging okay? Yep.. that changes everything.

Another poster stated that people judge lots of things..I agree with them. I will judge lots of things and even people. If I disagree with them I will tell them so and why. I'm not going to force myself on them. I will however reserve the right to seperate from them and not commune with them anymore. This requires judgement...the very thing this world does not want people to do. To get them to admit and take on any nutty thing or useless concept that comes down the pipe next week. Like a changing wind. Sorry not intrested once I judge a thing not worth the time.

I actually agree.. everyone judges to some extent.. the difference is you seem to think your judgment is scanctioned by god so must be superior than other peoples.. I take it you think you know the personal inner workings of your god's mind then? If you claim to have 'Righteous' judgement' you must think like him correct? Seems a little vain.

Your lack of insight into this concept cuts out Christians from your belief system and tolerance. That is your buisness..but I will point this out.

I totally understand the concept.. you would rather point the finger instead of offering a helping hand of compassion and empathy. My insight does not stop me tollerating chritians.. my insight accepts everybody.. what I do not tolerate is individuals that preach things that create biggotry- sometimes this happens to be christians who have interprited doctrine to suit themselves. I'm sorry if your own lack of understanding cannot see how it is affecting the world.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I understand what you are saying. My main point in judging is to know whether at thing is leven or unleven, new wine or olde. My understanding is to not mix the two. I am not here to extoll my "human virtues"as I know that my human virtues are rubbish/dung.
I do not tell people that they are going to hell etc ..which seems to be a bone of contention...with folks like Riley. I dont have a problem with this contention. I do understand this point. I cannot send Riley or anyone else to Hell or damnation..that is not my job to do so. Most Christians who do this seem to not understand this concept.
My knowlege and understanding is that all of us deserve hell and damnation..especially me..and the God I know would be perfectly just and rightious in sending men there...but it is still not in my power or authority to send anyone to hell and damnation. Christians also cannot save Riley or anyone else. Not possible.

I admit I haven't seen you post "You are going to burn in a lake of eternal fire." [as far as I remember] but you have agreed with Deesw on the sentiment. If you agree with him.. and in his naivity doesn't understand why it's wrong to judge people blindly.. you encourage him to spout more hatred because he can now turn and parrot you with "But it's Righteous judgement so I'm alloud".. you've given him a loophole out of actually appreciating the wisdom of the 'judge lest ye be judged' wisdom making them interchangable. If you have someone who has an intollerent mind.. they should be disuaded from this way of thinking.. not [even if unintentially] encouraged.

[edit on 12-8-2005 by riley]