read page 4

Thats not a bad idea really...actually quite thought provoking.

Once the US gets hold of it, they will end up making it a probably better than it is.

I agree with their reasoning...the F-14 is still a formidable aircraft....geez, the Pheonix system alone was revolutionary, but it is a old, aging and like all excellent aircraft....a over worked 'workhorse'. This may very well be a possible 'quick' solution. I don't see it as a threat to US national 'pride' nor security. It's the IDEA that this is even being considered thats going to cause the 'waves'.

The SU-27 is a outstanding piece of aviation engineering but alot of Sukhov(sp) designs are quite outstanding.


regards
seekerof

Its diffently a 'fine lady'. Very beautiful and eye pleasing aircraft.


regards
seekerof

" recent unofficial quote from a Russian source says that Su-27s can be bought for about $8 million apiece. " and " Obtain a license to build Su-27s in the U.S. without export rights. ".

I bet they'll cost 80 million USD if these Su-27 are build in the USA.

Ok, now, let's be serious one second.

1) When you buy your airplane from another country, it's true that you can save ( may be ) a lot of money. But you'll lose your ability and technicals competences in that matter ( building aircrafts ).

2) Also, it's very dangerous. If there is a war between the US and Russia ( it's allways still possible ), I wonder what will do the US and Russians pilots. In the both camps, pilots will shot down their own friends, thinking they were ennemies Su-27.

There is a lot of others problems, but it would take too much time and space to speak about them. So, may be it's funny for some peoples to think that the USAF and USN pilots would have to fly with Russian aircrafts, but it's stupid. Some years ago, the Germans thought to buy Mig-29 ( the EuroFighter was looking too much expensives ), but they finally changed their minds for the same reasons that I wrote above. But the Luftwaffe pilots are flying now with some old Mig-29 from the former East-Germany.

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

1) When you buy your airplane from another country, it's true that you can save ( may be ) a lot of money. But you'll lose your ability and technicals competences in that matter ( building aircrafts ).

2) Also, it's very dangerous. If there is a war between the US and Russia ( it's allways still possible ), I wonder what will do the US and Russians pilots. In the both camps, pilots will shot down their own friends, thinking they were ennemies Su-27.

I don't see it as a problem for a number of reasons.

Firstly - we are smart enough to adapt their technology to our own ends. As long as we don't rely 100% on their systems we will not suffer from a brain drain. In fact quite the opposite.

Secondly - I honestly believe Russia is never going to be a military threat to the West again. The Cold War is over and they are on our side now. You buy from allies already.

Thirdly - We are gaining information on their best weapons systems.

Finally - This will result in a crossover of technology and ideas. It will bring us closer together rather than push us further apart.

[Edited on 22-6-2003 by Leveller]

Originally posted by Leveller
Secondly - I honestly believe Russia is never going to be a military threat to the West again. The Cold War is over and they are on our side now. You buy from allies already.

Ok. And their new ICBM's ? What are they targetting ? Pyongyang ? Peking ? Islamabad ? I don't think so.

I know we are not in the cold war anymore. But it's not a reason to act like if everything was ok. When I have an ennemy, I'm sleeping with one eye opened. When I " think " that I've no ennemy, I'm sleeping with my 2 eyes opened.

Ya gotta love Flight Journal. Great aviation magazine.

It won't happen: if only for domestic economic and political reasons.
And I believe the Luftwaffe has manged to dump the MIG's it inherited on the Poles.
Russian planes very good: Russian quality control very bad.

Sounds like a good idea, we just modify them to ur specs and we will have a darn good plane.

that might be the problem, jet-s. much the same was the case with soviet-era commercial aircraft. On paper, they looked wonderful; but to maintain them to Western standards of safety would have been prohibitively expensive.

sounds like a good idea. but i dont entierly trust ivan giving us navel aircraft. if we could make it better than it orginaly is sure then id be fine with it but no lets not do it. i think ivan is planning something. something big

Not bad. We could use them for real life training against Soviet aircraft.

Originally posted by Freddie
Not bad. We could use them for real life training against Soviet aircraft.

we already do that. during the red flag training operations sometimes german pilots are brought in and use their mig-29's

Yeah, I saw that on Discovery Channel or History Channel or one of those. But this could be year-round training. Oh, whatever happened to the MiG's we found in Iraq intact? I assume they weren't destroyed, but flown back to America, or at least to Europe.

[Edited on 19-7-2003 by Freddie]

so. they bringem back and use em as areial targets. we want the new stuff. stuff right off of ivans production lines

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
" recent unofficial quote from a Russian source says that Su-27s can be bought for about $8 million apiece. " and " Obtain a license to build Su-27s in the U.S. without export rights. ".

I bet they'll cost 80 million USD if these Su-27 are build in the USA.

Ok, now, let's be serious one second.

1) When you buy your airplane from another country, it's true that you can save ( may be ) a lot of money. But you'll lose your ability and technicals competences in that matter ( building aircrafts ).

2) Also, it's very dangerous. If there is a war between the US and Russia ( it's allways still possible ), I wonder what will do the US and Russians pilots. In the both camps, pilots will shot down their own friends, thinking they were ennemies Su-27.

There is a lot of others problems, but it would take too much time and space to speak about them. So, may be it's funny for some peoples to think that the USAF and USN pilots would have to fly with Russian aircrafts, but it's stupid. Some years ago, the Germans thought to buy Mig-29 ( the EuroFighter was looking too much expensives ), but they finally changed their minds for the same reasons that I wrote above. But the Luftwaffe pilots are flying now with some old Mig-29 from the former East-Germany.

they probally wont shoot down there own "comrades". there's a thing called IFF identify frend foe. therefore taregts in ivans radar have an x over them if they are friendly and no x if they are bandits.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
" recent unofficial quote from a Russian source says that Su-27s can be bought for about $8 million apiece. " and " Obtain a license to build Su-27s in the U.S. without export rights. ".

I bet they'll cost 80 million USD if these Su-27 are build in the USA.

Ok, now, let's be serious one second.

1) When you buy your airplane from another country, it's true that you can save ( may be ) a lot of money. But you'll lose your ability and technicals competences in that matter ( building aircrafts ).

2) Also, it's very dangerous. If there is a war between the US and Russia ( it's allways still possible ), I wonder what will do the US and Russians pilots. In the both camps, pilots will shot down their own friends, thinking they were ennemies Su-27.

There is a lot of others problems, but it would take too much time and space to speak about them. So, may be it's funny for some peoples to think that the USAF and USN pilots would have to fly with Russian aircrafts, but it's stupid. Some years ago, the Germans thought to buy Mig-29 ( the EuroFighter was looking too much expensives ), but they finally changed their minds for the same reasons that I wrote above. But the Luftwaffe pilots are flying now with some old Mig-29 from the former East-Germany.

they probally wont shoot down there own "comrades". there's a thing called IFF identify frend foe. therefore taregts in ivans radar have an x over them if they are friendly and no x if they are bandits.

iff? just like your patriot system that takes down your own aircraft?

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by Leveller
Secondly - I honestly believe Russia is never going to be a military threat to the West again. The Cold War is over and they are on our side now. You buy from allies already.

Ok. And their new ICBM's ? What are they targetting ? Pyongyang ? Peking ? Islamabad ? I don't think so.

I know we are not in the cold war anymore. But it's not a reason to act like if everything was ok. When I have an ennemy, I'm sleeping with one eye opened. When I " think " that I've no ennemy, I'm sleeping with my 2 eyes opened.

*cough*
Keep your allies close, keep your enemies closer.

i take back what i said earlier. upon further review of the article it does sound like a good idea. i would like to see them bult in the US, or have our stuff put in them. but yeah upon further review it does sound like a good idea. now ivan has to worry about better pilots in one of his best aircraft.