God Exists, Therefore Leprechauns Exist.

a reply to: sputniksteve

So you're saying "You Know God"?? Is that what you're getting at???

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
But a man can't be everywhere...a man can't create the universe.

We're actually getting pretty close. But that's not the point.(Maybe later one day it will be)

The point is I definitely believe in God. However I don't commit to any Religion at this point, nor will I ever. I think that's the best way to go and God would agree.

If you know what I know, you will appreciate this next sentence but if you don't...maybe one day you will.

Yes...we are pretty close. That is the whole point.

We will very soon have cool sims to look at of us actually doing it. Not just sims of it happening.

Quantum is still new.

a reply to: mOjOm

Sometimes very well, sometimes not at all. All other times it's everything in between.

You do too, you just don't realize it.

a reply to: BlackProject

I've been in many metal bands singing and playing the typical genre songs. I've written 12 albums worth and released them. One song in particular (the name doesn't matter) had my most profound line I've ever put to words.

"My love of God dictates my hate for religion."

The religion you dislike is the same religion I dislike. It is a bastardized version of what should have been a much needed and beautiful thing. But that thing is required. You can't have a savior without an adversary. But that is so vague in itself. I don't mean to imply you are wrong or bad, but I do question your intent.

So...peace. But if I may...I have a suggestion. Take your dislike for what man made of whatever God was or should have been. Look around at EVERYTHING and maybe realize that everything you see was once one single thing that decided, or by chance, exploded into what you see today. That every single thing was once one thing, and that thing may have been called God. And some day, when everything reverts to where it started, back into what it once was...everything we did and everything we made become part of this new God. Which may again decide to explode itself and continue to grow over time-frames we can't even imagine. If you can consider something like that you answer all your questions. Do we simply die and go away? Nope. What is our meaning? To become something more.

God was never a being. God would be every being, everything and in turn...you are as much a part of God.

Give it time. It is not only simple but logical and (gasp) scientific.

PS: I'm not saying this is what I believe or know or that this is the answer...but I believe I'm getting close

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: mOjOm

Sometimes very well, sometimes not at all. All other times it's everything in between.

You do too, you just don't realize it.

Well, I think the major difference is that I wouldn't call that "Knowing". I would call that "Believing". Not quite the same thing.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: mOjOm

Sometimes very well, sometimes not at all. All other times it's everything in between.

You do too, you just don't realize it.

Well, I think the major difference is that I wouldn't call that "Knowing". I would call that "Believing". Not quite the same thing.

I would offer that believing and knowing as we are using them here, are not quite accurate. If I believe something, I'm stating that I think that it exists but I can't prove it. Knowing is stating that inside myself, I am sure it exists but I can't prove it. Knowing is (or can be) an internal thing. And I don't mean this just from a religious stand-point...there are things people can "know" but you can only understand that if you have experienced it. Love for example. Do you believe you are in love...or know you are in love?

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: mOjOm

Sometimes very well, sometimes not at all. All other times it's everything in between.

You do too, you just don't realize it.

Well, I think the major difference is that I wouldn't call that "Knowing". I would call that "Believing". Not quite the same thing.

That is only because you don't understand it. You literally know God. Sometimes very well, sometimes not at all, other times everything in between. I don't believe it I know it. You will know it to eventually, I hope it is while we are both on ATS so you can come back and say "Holy $%*^, I understand now". It truly is a glorious thing to behold, the revelation in someone else. That's why it is so tempting to spill the beans, on the off chance someone will truly grasp what is said.

The reason the people that Know don't just come out and say it, is for you and the others that don't. Not for us.

a reply to: sputniksteve

I think that is part of the problem, or one of the keys to the solution. You said "I understand now" and while I know you didn't mean it, that implies you are somewhere he is not and therefore, he is behind you. I absolute know what you meant, but words don't do it justice. It isn't that you (to the other poster) don't know it...it just hasn't clicked. We all know the same things, the same truths and realities. But there is a time that those pieces just click together. You don't learn something you didn't have before...what you knew before just makes more sense.

Well...I'm outta here. I'll leave you with this...and just remember this has nothing to do with God

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: sputniksteve

I think that is part of the problem, or one of the keys to the solution. You said "I understand now" and while I know you didn't mean it, that implies you are somewhere he is not and therefore, he is behind you. I absolute know what you meant, but words don't do it justice. It isn't that you (to the other poster) don't know it...it just hasn't clicked. We all know the same things, the same truths and realities. But there is a time that those pieces just click together. You don't learn something you didn't have before...what you knew before just makes more sense.

Precisely. It was meant to convey the reality that all one needs to also Know is already available to them. Hell it is just short of spelled out in this thread if you know how to look. It isn't that I am somehow better or elevated or beyond anyone else. I was told exactly what the answers were many times before I had my epiphany but I didn't have the context or base to understand what it was I was being told. It wasn't until I found it on my own that I realized the profoundness of the knowledge I already had.

It really is so simple that we tend to overlook it. All of that and this is by design. If we were born with or just given the inherent understanding to begin with we wouldn't be playing the game the way it is intended to be played. In order to to fully appreciate the game it is best to come from the opposite spectrum, and climb all of the metaphorical mountains on the way.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: BlackProject

If you can consider something like that you answer all your questions. Do we simply die and go away? Nope. What is our meaning? To become something more.

God was never a being. God would be every being, everything and in turn...you are as much a part of God.

Not to cut up your quote just wanted to reply to this part being clearer to just snip it from your last reply.

This is the problem I often suffer with when regards to learning what is right in this world. That most people would deem we are here for something more, something greater and to as you stated, to become something more.

How about we are not so special, how about we are here only for the sake of chemicals and atoms clashing together and that in our universe there is hundreds, no thousands, no millions no billions more lifeforms just like us all thinking the same thing because in our big world ( small to the rest of the universe ) we are alone, silent, individual and thus should be special.

I say often, we are special only in one context. That we should respect the life we have been given and no ponder death and beyond but what life is now. Understood life sometimes is cruel to some and horrible and thus some people feel, I should have a better life then this. I know, I shall have a better afterlife.

I say spend your life pushing to live the life you wish for not for the life you are not promised.

a reply to: sputniksteve

What makes you so sure whatever it is you think you know is all that profound anyway???

What makes you think I haven't thought the same thing before but to me it isn't as profound as it was to you???

Just because you're ok with that as an answer, what makes you think that's the answer for everyone else too???

That seems a bit arrogant to me to think that.

a reply to: BlackProject

That is more important than I think you realize. It isn't at all about what happens next, it is only about what is happening NOW.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: BlackProject

That is more important than I think you realize. It isn't at all about what happens next, it is only about what is happening NOW.

Sorry I am not sure to which post you are referring to in regards to your response. If you could reply again to me with what it is that is more important and what is happening now.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: sputniksteve

What makes you so sure whatever it is you think you know is all that profound anyway???

What makes you think I haven't thought the same thing before but to me it isn't as profound as it was to you???

Just because you're ok with that as an answer, what makes you think that's the answer for everyone else too???

That seems a bit arrogant to me to think that.

You're so close...your "answer" may be completely different and way, way, way more than likely, you have already thought it, thought about it and considered it. When it clicks...then you know. It isn't something I or anyone else has that is a secret, it isn't words or a thought...it can't be conveyed to others. But one day, usually when you need it most...it will click.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: sputniksteve

What makes you so sure whatever it is you think you know is all that profound anyway???

What makes you think I haven't thought the same thing before but to me it isn't as profound as it was to you???

Just because you're ok with that as an answer, what makes you think that's the answer for everyone else too???

That seems a bit arrogant to me to think that.

The only way I can answer that is that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now you and I.

I know that won't be sufficient, and it seems patronizing. Trust me I get it. It's not my intention to piss you off or start any kind of argument. I am not having this discussion for my sake, other than I think it is a very interesting thread compared to most on this topic.

I could very plainly spell it all out right now, as has already been done in this very thread. As we can see that doesn't do anything for anyone though. I urge you to try and not be angry or upset about any of this. I am not trying to treat you badly or pretend that I am better. I am not better, by any means. I am probably not happier, richer, more loved, healthier, or any of those things.

This is all a game, all of it. With one single objective. The game was made specifically to be difficult to play, and difficult to achieve the objective. You personally are in the best position to achieve that objective though. I urge you to just continue to think about what is being said here.

a reply to: BlackProject

Again...this isn't something anyone knows including myself. It will click when you know yours. But again...if you look at everything from the dirt to the fire to the outer reaches of space and consider it all one single thing, it helps. Consider everything your body. If one little piece goes wrong, you die. Without that one piece (atom you said), you aren't here anymore. That which makes you...as unimportant as you may believe, so important that NOTHING exists without you. And him...and her...and that...and this.

As it once was it will be again. The space...the distance makes people feel alone. It makes people afraid. But it is required to continue to grow. One day it will all come together again. Everything will once again become one. And that one...is what some call God. That being back together with everything...is what some call Heaven. And then...again...that will choose to expand, separated, integrate space to grow some more...and become more than it was the next time. And so on...and so on.

a reply to: BlackProject

If you click on your name above my post, it shows which of your posts I was replying to.

OK...really...I gotta go. One more suggestion. Scroll back up to the video I linked and watch/listen all the way through. Remember I said that it had nothing to do with God? That song is about one person...maybe you...talking to themselves.

a reply to: mOjOm


Sorry for the delay Mojom, getting to bed early enough last night to be worth a damn at work today, work today, dogs etc.


The problem is you don't understand the metaphor I used.

All you're seeing here is people that believe that their inability to find a fish in the desert is proof that fish don't exist.

The desert is the natural/physical world and fish represents a supernatural entity, for example God. The people looking for fish/evidence of fish, (supernatural entities), conclude that there are no fish, (supernatural entities), because they can't find any fish/evidence of fish in the desert, (natural physical world).

In other words, they're like people that conclude that God or any other supernatural entity doesn't exist because there isn't any physical evidence.

That's not what I see here. What I see are people who say there are no fish in the desert because they've looked and find no fish in the desert so that is their conclusion.

No, that's not what's being said here when someone says, "There isn't any scientific proof of God/supernatural so it doesn't exist". What's being said is that since they find no evidence of fish, (the supernatural), in the desert, (natural physical world), there are no fish (God/Supernatural) and that alone and specifically was what I was addressing.

Meanwhile there are other people who claim "to know" for sure that there are fish in the desert but either can't or won't show anyone those fish. They cannot show you the fish. They cannot even agree with each other what those fish look like or where they are or anything else. But they all say for sure they are there.

If you say so. But I haven't said those things here. And again, the above shows that you don't understand how I've used the metaphor. You're still asking for a fish/evidence of a fish in the desert. I'm saying it's not unreasonable or stupid or illogical and etc. to think that there isn't going to be any evidence of fish (the supernatural/God) in the desert (natural world) and that the lack of evidence in the desert (natural world), doesn't preclude the existence of fish (God/supernatural).

I haven't claimed that God/the supernatural exists, I've only questioned the logic of demanding physical proof for a supernatural entity. I've also asserted that believing that the supernatural/God doesn't exist because there is no physical evidence, is metaphysical naturalism, which is a belief on par, logically speaking, with a belief in the supernatural/God. No proof positive of a physical nature either way. Metaphysical naturalism, which is implied when someone says, "There isn't any scientific evidence for God/supernatural so there is no God/supernatural" isn't, at best, any smarter, logical or sophisticated than a belief in the supernatural/God.

At to Science. Science doesn't concern itself with the supernatural and doesn't comment on it, and I think rightly so. Scientists can form opinions about the supernatural and they can comment on it, but when they do, they step outside of the realm of science to do so. Sort of like a Movie star giving political opinions.

Ok, so on to your metaphor:

Let's me put it a different way so you'll see what I'm saying.

You're saying that aliens exist. That you know they exist. Yet you cannot show us aliens. You cannot even agree with other people who allegedly know aliens either on what aliens are or how they look or speak. You have no way of demonstrating aliens do in fact exist. But you expect others to believe YOU when you say aliens exist.

Assuming aliens equal God/the supernatural in your metaphor, No I haven't claimed that aliens, (God/supernatural) exists here, that I know they exist and etc. I do note that you're asking for physical proof of a physical being (s). Those are questions science is designed to a explore and provide answers for. You're demands for physical proof are reasonable, prudent and etc within your scenario. But it's not an apt metaphor for what I've said here, because your aliens are physical creatures.