God Exists, Therefore Leprechauns Exist.

a reply to: imwilliam

That's fine. You may not be saying God exists or that you Know God exists. But others are saying that. Even saying that he is a living God. Yet they fail to give any evidence for that.

I agree that science won't find anything in the realm of the supernatural being that it is a study of what is natural or in the natural world.

But since there may not actually be a realm of the supernatural at all to begin with we can pretty much say anything we want about it and it's allowed. Which is sort of what this thread is about.

As long as we talk about what may or may exist in the supernatural world anything is allowed. Some even think that means we should just assume it all to be true. Hence, Leprechauns exist. Why?? Because they are supernatural therefore they exist because we can't prove otherwise.

But why assume the supernatural exists or that there is anything there anyway?? To do so means believing that things based on myth and assumption are just as real as things here in this reality. I don't see the point other than to create a false reality for yourself.

you only think of god in term of religion/bible. thats small minded. i was also an atheist because of what i just said. the bible is BS so god must be too. but the bible has nothing to do with reality does it. you know it, i know it.

you say your atheist and proud. so your basically saying you BELIEVE that the universe blew up out of nothing for no reason randomly. what is rational about that?

a reply to: mOjOm

Mojom,

Yet they fail to give any evidence for that.

Their testimony is a type of evidence, not scientific, and evidence that I don't fault you for not taking as proof or of viewing skeptically, I do the same. But it is a kind of evidence.

But since there may not actually be a realm of the supernatural at all to begin with we can pretty much say anything we want about it and it's allowed. Which is sort of what this thread is about.

As long as we talk about what may or may exist in the supernatural world anything is allowed. Some even think that means we should just assume it all to be true. Hence, Leprechauns exist. Why?? Because they are supernatural therefore they exist because we can't prove otherwise.

I don't think a belief in the supernatural or God requires an abdication of critical thinking or logic. It's just that critical thinking and logic is exercised within a belief in God/the supernatural. There's no reason a person who believes in the supernatural can't evaluate specific claims about the supernatural.

But why assume the supernatural exists or that there is anything there anyway??

Why assume there's not?

I don't see the point other than to create a false reality for yourself.

But if there is more than a physical dimension to reality, if there is a supernatural realm within the totality of "reality" then refusing to acknowledge that supernatural realm is creating a false reality.

I'm not trying to "convert" you or convince you that there is a supernatural dimension to reality. I'm just trying to counter some of the nonsense I've seen in this thread to the effect that a belief in God is necessarily stupid, unsophisticated, illogical or anything of the sort; or that a belief that there isn't a God is necessarily smart, sophisticated and logical.

And I appreciate you favoring me with your replies.

Now Mojom, I got a book in the mail that I've been waiting a week and a half for, so I'm off to attend to that

Take Care and have a nice night.

Billy

a reply to: BlackProject

i tend to think that anything is possible, including nothingness, not that i could experience it so well its not possible for that to exist even if it was true, it can never exist, cause it is nothing. for me im between theres a big starter god imagine the big bang before bang it was tiny, a wee tiny god to start then boom, this one god has become loads of gods, and now there are gods everywhere, the human body has appx 300 trillion cells and 300 trillion atoms consist of a cell, and see everyone of those atoms..... yip God, ............ or every atom could be an alien supercomputer, and we could all be "living" batteries for some unseen overlord............. or just nothingness...... aye the thought of nothingness is boring me, sleep time,

a reply to: BlackProject

I have to say I wasn't always the most ardent believer in Jesus until I and my family members along with nearby neighbors had multiple ghostly experiences. i had to say to myself that there was something out there that was beyond what I knew. So like doubting Thomas I was given some amount of proof to open my eyes. Keep an open mind on spiritual beings higher than ourselves.

a reply to: BlackProject

Why care so much what others believe? Some people believe in faries, elves, gnomes, Santa Clause, but who cares man. Whats the point in the forum posts on it? Why waste your time on something that you find pointless, stupid and a waste of time. Let people believe what they want and just move on and keep your circle of friends faith free if it bothers you to that extent. I have a saying i apply to everyone who does or things dumb things (atleast what i consider dumb). "If people want to live in sh*t, sell them shovels." Apply this to life and those who dont believe as you do my friend.

originally posted by: Kingj56
a reply to: BlackProject

Why care so much what others believe? Some people believe in faries, elves, gnomes, Santa Clause, but who cares man. Whats the point in the forum posts on it? Why waste your time on something that you find pointless, stupid and a waste of time. Let people believe what they want and just move on and keep your circle of friends faith free if it bothers you to that extent. I have a saying i apply to everyone who does or things dumb things (atleast what i consider dumb). "If people want to live in sh*t, sell them shovels." Apply this to life and those who dont believe as you do my friend.

I think it is pretty natural. I used to get upset and think that anyone that had faith was an idiot, couldn't think critically, were weak and needed crutches in life. Even the most ardent defenders of Atheism and Agnosticism are usually deep down searching for answers. A lot of time they reach their conclusions because they fail to find what they think they are looking for. Deep down I was just unhappy and was mad that other people seemed to have what I didn't.

Turns out we are usually looking for the wrong things in the wrong places. In fact it was right in front of us the entire time but sometimes the most simple and blatant answers are the most elusive. Turns out faith wasn't needed, and the physical proof or Saul/Paul type event just isn't going to happen. At least not for me, for me it was quite different.

Thing is I think everyone is actually avoiding the elephant in the room the cheeky Leprechauns. I mean what of their pot of gold? has anyone been to the end of the rainbow or caught one of the buggers?.

originally posted by: TheKnightofDoom
Thing is I think everyone is actually avoiding the elephant in the room the cheeky Leprechauns. I mean what of their pot of gold? has anyone been to the end of the rainbow or caught one of the buggers?.

Provoking the Fae is not advised. And the Fae have been around far longer than any saint or messiah in Judaism.

a reply to: BlackProject

Well Elon Musk and some other billionaires are funding research into the concept that this universe is indeed a "simulation", a concept that is gaining heavy ground amongst quantum mechanics theoretical physicists.
IF THIS turns out to be somehow proveable, then the next question would be...
WHO created the simulation....
There's a great Rick and Morty episode on it that I highly recommend.

originally posted by: prevenge
a reply to: BlackProject

Well Elon Musk and some other billionaires are funding research into the concept that this universe is indeed a "simulation", a concept that is gaining heavy ground amongst quantum mechanics theoretical physicists.
IF THIS turns out to be somehow proveable, then the next question would be...
WHO created the simulation....
There's a great Rick and Morty episode on it that I highly recommend.

Ha...that series is great. Season 3 comes out in a couple months, I hear. Should be pretty entertaining.

a reply to: imwilliam
Interesting comment. Here's some more to think about:


Textformat (with additional links): Is Belief in God Reasonable? Awake!—2010

Some related evidence:

A Professor Emeritus of biology on the subject:

Young and old can be reasonable about the evidence and do their own personal research (certain other types can't when they're too busy stating or claiming that there is no evidence as if they can know things and as if that's a fact/certainty concerning things they sometimes even claim to know nothing for certain about, also young and old):



Those sticking their heads in the sand won't make the evidence go away or the logical conclusions many* have drawn from them any less reasonable.

*: that would include those that are quoted in the videos working in various fields of science/knowledge studying the evidence in question when working in those fields of science/knowledge (or otherwise referred to as "the sciences"), talking about the evidence they discovered when working in those fields.

They probably do but they fall in the category of demons coming as an angel of light.so it means God does exist.you atheist are funny you guys don't even understand the Bible yet you dismiss everything in it to understand the things written in the Bible you need to pray hard for understanding and to ask God to reveal things which are hidden in those words the Bible is his word he is the creator of every thing and only those who seek will find dismissing and embracing ignorance doesn't give you more knowledge admitting you are ignorant is the 1st step to learning.his words are way beyond religion and religious leaders and their interpretations.you need knowledge straight from God through the name of Jesus who died for your sins.may you pray and find peace with Jesus

originally posted by: BlackProject

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: BlackProject
"Let's imagine that we have a conversation one day and I say to you, "I believe in Leprechauns. You cannot prove that Leprechauns do not exist, therefore they exist." You actually have heard of Leprechauns. There are lots of books, movies and fairy tales dealing with Leprechauns. People talk about Leprechauns all the time. Leprechauns even have a popular brand of breakfast cereal. That does not mean that Leprechauns exist."

First you declare that Leprechauns exist in literature, movies, thoughts, language...
Then you declare, oddly, that this evidence of Leprechaun existence does not mean that they exist.
You are as confused as any atheist/believer.

That is not evidence. You miss the point.

If I write a book about, oh I do not know lets say a boy called harry potter and his magical wand. If I write enough books and talk about him enough does that make it evidence?

What a joke.

Your erstwhile sense of humor aside, yes.
If you open a book and see a picture and description of the character and his adventures, that is evidence for the literary and artistic EXISTENCE of Harry Potter and his adventures.
It's not that difficult a concept.
Something can only 'not exist' in the truncated tiny confines of your arbitrary set of rules.
If my rules say that only white things can exist, then an apple cannot exist!
Without the (schizophrenic) arbitrary rules, everything, ultimately, exists!

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: namelesss

That makes no sense though.

How can you say that "everything exists" while at the same time say there is no Things/God that exist at the same time.

It boils down to 'Heads' and 'Tails'. Two opposite Perspectives of the same One Coin. Both Truth. For one, Heads' doesn't exist, for the other, 'Tails'.
Perhaps it is also definitional;
Existence = that which is 'perceived'.
If it is perceived, it exists, if not, there is not anything to not exist!
All is perceived/experienced, Known!

When talking of 'things', people usually refer to that which has (measurable) 'qualities'; hard, soft, weight, mass, velocity, color...
But, ultimately, there is not anything to have such qualities, Reality is 'undifferentiated potential'.
Ponder that a moment/decade.
Quantum shows how because we perceive these 'information waves' (Mind), the 'appear' (collapse) as a particular feature of the Universe/Reality, an autonomous feature, at that.
That is an appearance, a mirage, a dream, what is left when we are incapable of perceiving the rest of the Universe at this moment, rather than this keyboard.
The more opposite Perspectives arise to Consciousness, the more that our Universe winks out or being.
The more that 'existence' vanishes, like the momentary dream that it is.

You can't be agnostic about everything. There are some things that we can show exist and things that we can't show exist based on our definition of existence.

That which we can 'show' is no more or less 'imagination/Mind' (through a glass egoically) than that which we cannot.

But saying everything exists is saying you do know.

All the evidence, ever, supports the theory that everything exists, is equally Real!
There CAN BE NO evidence to the contrary!
Ever!
So, that being the case, I am willing to tentatively use that as a heuristic, a given premise of existence/Reality, because it also fills the requirements of a 'theory'; explanatory, predictability...
And people get less stressed when you are willing to accept their favorite monsters and Gods!
It seems .. healthier.

I ... confused about what those words mean.

Have I helped you understand where I'm coming from?
Peace

The most abstract concept which cannot be explained and falls into the realm of the supernatural, albeit somewhat dismissed every day, is consciousness. Certainly, the mechanics and biology are understood to a great extent however there is no satisfactory explaination as to what defines who each of us truly are or when we came to be. I know myself, distinctive from any other creature or being and have an experience of life which is dependent on my senses and a combination of a multitude of separate cells, electrical and chemical impulses and yet. I am singular, I feel singular.

Sure my perception of reality can be changed and influenced by a whole host of environmental factors, drugs, illness and mental state and these are all explainable in terms of physiological science. However, amongst all of this the chemicals which compose my physical self are not capable of consciousnessness as far as my understanding. There's a division between myself and another being, I cannot be sure in effect of being the only consciousness amongst a world of automata, the only thing I can be sure of is that I believe I exist. I think, therefore I am.

So, I have every right to be sceptical of everything around me. From the seen to the unseen. From the natural to the supernatural. Yet, I also have to consider that being unable to have what I am satisfactorily explained, being composed of a supernatural element of consciousnessness, self awareness and existence I have a duty regard to the outside world with similar consideration. I am not the only being in the world, I owe the right to others to exist. To fellow men, animals, insects, plants and whatever other forms sentience may manifest.

Where this existence begins or ends, I do not know. What defines life, I do not know. Whatever life forms exist whether perceptible or not should not be condemned by my ignorance of it and whilst I don't believe a rock is alive or debate with a glass of water, I will be open to the idea of life 'strange' because in the scheme of things we are all equally as odd. So fairies, elves, leprechauns, deities and Gods - why not? Do they conform for our understanding 5 years ago, 50, 5000 or 50,0000 years? Perhaps not, and yet still as illusive as the human 'self' itself.

To question and ponder is a right and to dismiss is short of ignorance. I wouldnt say that the answers lie in a singular book, view or belief but in the comprehension of many things great and small.

What can you use to, if not prove, at least strongly suggest G(g)od(s) are in operation these days?

Follow the history of the stock market. That's some magic show!...

Anyone familiar with technical analysis of stock charts? Many professional money managers / gamblers use it, and it is a very superstitious endeavor...

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: BlackProject

Be prepared for the whole "how can you compare god to leprechauns?" argument.

As for the actual thread? Loved it. Very well thought out and a well earned star and flag from me.

1 to 14

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
you only think of god in term of religion/bible. thats small minded. i was also an atheist because of what i just said. the bible is BS so god must be too. but the bible has nothing to do with reality does it. you know it, i know it.

you say your atheist and proud. so your basically saying you BELIEVE that the universe blew up out of nothing for no reason randomly. what is rational about that?

I love answering people like yourself because you seem to think everything is for a reason, why?

We are not here for a reason just like every life form on this planet is not here for a reason. It one life form died off tomorrow (granted it does not mess with the balance of life for other lifeforms here) it would not be noticed. However even if we died off tomorrow, all of us all died. Nothing would happen, the highest in the food chain after us would continue to live and thats that. There is probably (rational realistic thinking) thousands and millions of variations of life like us throughout the universe but the point is, non of it is important. We are not here for a reason, we have no duty, the only beautiful thing about our life is that we are here, so enjoy the party.

There is no higher power as it would have shown itself already and it has not. It has no duty to show us any evidence. Just as I said in other posts throughout history there is no evidence or proof of any deities throughout history. Fact. Just ramblings of old men.

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
a reply to: BlackProject

I have to say I wasn't always the most ardent believer in Jesus until I and my family members along with nearby neighbors had multiple ghostly experiences. i had to say to myself that there was something out there that was beyond what I knew. So like doubting Thomas I was given some amount of proof to open my eyes. Keep an open mind on spiritual beings higher than ourselves.

I agree that there are things we do not understand or fathom however, just because we cannot explain it does not instantly point to God or anything of the kind.

At one time the tides were an act of God and only God could explain this wondrous momentum. Now science tells us its due to the moon and that makes perfect sense. Sense over the absurd should always reign the more plausible option in any mind. Considering there is scientific proof to prove those things empirically. However still to this day religious folk still hold onto their last playing card. ''Well explain this!!'' I am sure if someone would do the leg work, we would see there is probably thousands if not millions of answered God like questions over the God like answer we once had. Where does that leave us.

Our world is a magical place but ill leave you with this. It is known our eyes only see certain spectrums of light, thus if someone or a group of people saw something unexplainable then maybe what anyone has ever experienced is being privy to those spectrums in which we do not see.