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Iraq not living up to Vietnam

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posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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Lets compare Vietnam and Iraq

Vietnam :



Communist State

conventional long form: Socialist Republic of Vietnam
conventional short form: Vietnam
local long form: Cong Hoa Xa Hoi Chu Nghia Viet Nam
local short form: Viet Nam
abbreviation: SRV

Vietnam War: roughly 11 years.

Outcome: Enemy government remained intact before troop pullout. Total Defeat.

Iraq



none; note - the Interim Government was appointed on 1 June 2004

conventional long form: Republic of Iraq
conventional short form: Iraq
local long form: Al Jumhuriyah al Iraqiyah
local short form: Al Iraq

Iraq War - March 19, 2003 to May 2, 2003

Outcome? Enemy government removed, Free and open relations 6 days away, Democracy in place. Total Victory




posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:45 PM
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Great comparison!

Comparing Viet Nam to Iraq is like comparing Bush to Hitler.

Desperation leads to some crazy comparisons. It truly is sad.

You get a way above vote for this one.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by Carseller4]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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People forget quickly, don't they...

Nice post.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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not quite sure i get the point of your post....

if vietnam is a failure and iraq a "total victory" why is vietnam a much nicer place to live? why is vietnam a growing economic power when iraq is an instable hell on earth? why is vietnam ruled indisputably by vietnamese and iraq ruled by insurrectionary bandits and an occupying power? i would highly recommend spending a few months in each place to experience life in real, concrete terms before defining "victory" with ideological platitudes.

-koji K.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by koji_K]

[edit on 24-1-2005 by koji_K]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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oh i don't know koji, maybe the fact that vietnam was several decades ago and has since had the time to rebuild, develope, and prosper into the country it is today while iraq is really just beginning it's development into the stable and prosperous country i hope, and believe, it will become. maybe have a little patience, give iraq a chance? something a little longer then a year perhaps?



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:50 PM
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well, we're not even two years into the current war.

let's compare again in eight or nine years.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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What? Iraq's not bloody enough for you?

You seem to be forgetting that we are taking these casualties, yet making little overall progress against the insurgents. That every single indicator (casualty rates, casualty type, # of attacks, scale of attacks, estimated # of insurgents) has been growing and continues to grow. 16 months ago the insurgents averaged 1 car bomb a week, they now average two-four a day. The insurgents now have the power to infiltrate suicide bombers past our own security, kill Iraqi officials with impunity, and are now on a daily basis beheading people in full view of public. Their bombs are becoming powerful enough to destroy Bradley Fighting Vehicles, and its only a matter of time before the Saudis & Ex-Ba'athists financing the insurgency splurge on high-tech anti-tank missiles and MANPADS.


The current situation in Iraq bears striking resemblance to Israel's occupation of Lebanon and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Both were occupations of Muslim lands that began with overwhelming military campaigns leading to a quick occupation. Both were followed soon afterwards by diverse and growing insurgencies united in the cause of Allah and the expulsion of the invading force. Insurgencies in both countries made effective use of such terror tactics as assassination, infiltration, intimidation, hostage-taking, roadside bombings, and suicide attacks. Both caused untold harm to the civilian population and occupying forces.

What makes the comparison so disturbing:

Both resulted in the bloody and humiliating defeat of the occupying force.

Both ended leaving the lands worse off than they were before.

Both guerrilla wars gave rise to the formation of the deadliest in international terrorists [Hezbollah in Lebanon, Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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[imaybe have a little patience, give iraq a chance? something a little longer then a year perhaps?



Patience? What we're dealing with is a generation of kids thats used to seeing everything wrapped up within 1 hr....just like West Wing!!

Anyhow, I read that a McDonalds opened up in Vietnam and KFC's are a big hit in China, so I guess the big food corperations are the real winners here.

Max



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:14 PM
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Bauer....you cant even compare Nam to Iraq....the body count in Nam was a crap load higher then we'll ever reach in Iraq...Like it was said earlier...in 10 years from now...Iraq will be much better off...and Bush will be praised for it...



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by RedPhoenixDelta
Iraq War - March 19, 2003 to May 2, 2003

Outcome? Enemy government removed, Free and open relations 6 days away, Democracy in place. Total Victory

total victory?
democracy in place?
you have to be joking, man!
if it is a total victory, why is there in iraq a backbone of u.s. army?
why are they still fighting everyday?
if it is a total victory, why are people still dying?
i sincerely hope that after the elections a time of peace and prosperity comes for the long suffering iraqi people, but i doubt that will happen.
struggle for power will be more violent, than peacefull.

lets look at this election situation from the patriotic iraqi point of view:

- the war and the subsequent occupation are illegitimate, and therefore every political process, including the election, is illegitimate too.

- the election is meant to legalize the occupation by bringing on an Iraqi parliament and government with one clear goal: to prolong the occupation.

- this election aims to legalize and institutionalize the religious and ethnic quota system in Iraq, which will promote ethnic and religious divisions of Iraq.

- the armed Iraqi resistance is the only legitimate representative of the Iraqi people.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by BasementAddix
Bauer....you cant even compare Nam to Iraq....the body count in Nam was a crap load higher then we'll ever reach in Iraq...Like it was said earlier...in 10 years from now...Iraq will be much better off...and Bush will be praised for it...


I wasn't comparing it to Vietnam, I am comparing it to the Israeli occupation of Lebanon and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Both of which were, in the end, far greater strategic losses for Israel and the USSR than the American loss in Vietnam ever was.

There is no sign whatsoever that the insurgency will let up, in fact today they assassinated a top Iraqi judge, 11 cops, and are threatening to kill another American hostage.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 06:51 AM
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can I ask a question?

what are/is MANPADS? Is it like a male version of sanitary towels ?


oui

posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
People forget quickly, don't they...

Nice post.


I agree. Very nice post. I wanted to post more, but I fear anything I post will get me flamed, and labeled as a conservative war mongering george bush lover. Even so... kudos to the topic starter... he really did get my above top secret vote, because the thread just happened to touch me that way. GJ



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:09 AM
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A MANPAD is a MAN Portable Air Defence weapon. A shoulder launched anti-aircraft missile. Examples would be the Soviet Igla and the American Stinger Missile. One of these suckers brought down a Chinook helicopter in November of 2003, killing 15 American soldiers and wounding dozens more, and another around that same time was used to take out an engine on a DHL cargo plane.

My fear is that (in addition to the thousands of missing SA-7s once hoarded by Saddam) the rich Saudis or others financing the insurgency will buy hundreds of advanced MANPADs such as the Russian SA-18, rumoured to be almost as lethal as the American Stinger, with a kill rate on even protected aircraft of about 40-60%.

Perhaps a bigger fear though is the fact that so few of these things have actually been used by the insurgents, despite the fact that they are so easy to use and easy to find. Such weapons could easily bring down Civilian airliners, and Al Qaeda has used them in the past for terrorist attacks.

During the 1990s the US tried to buy back all the Stingers left over from the Soviet-Afghan war. A ridiculously stupid idea because we were offering so much money for them that any drug-runner, arms dealer, or Afghan warlord could sell a Stinger back to the US and then use the money to buy several almost-as-good Russian missiles on the black market.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:14 AM
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Ahh..thanks for the explanation.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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Souljah....

I thought you started off with quite a good post there but then the last three statements let it down badly......




the election is meant to legalize the occupation by bringing on an Iraqi parliament and government with one clear goal: to prolong the occupation.


I dont think that the population of the countries, whoose armies are involved and are currently in Iraq, will allow them to 'occupy' for longer than is needed. IMHO they will want to get out of the country as quick as is possible after the democratic elections. I would imagine that there will be bases established by the 'Occupying forces' and that they will withdraw to these gradually as the Iraqi government establishes itself and law and order takes hold.




this election aims to legalize and institutionalize the religious and ethnic quota system in Iraq, which will promote ethnic and religious divisions of Iraq.


There are currently ethnic / religious divisions in Iraq, which the democratic elections are trying to redress. The Sunnies are in a minority to the Shia, but hold all the power, this will be redressed in the elections. THIS IS WHAT ALL THE KILLING AND MURDERING IS ABOUT. The Sunny leadership wants to stay in control by destabilising the country.



the armed Iraqi resistance is the only legitimate representative of the Iraqi people.


The 'armed Iraqi resistance' is made up of foreign fighters and Sunnies, fighting for control of the power vacuum that Saddams downfall has created, it makes no odds whether the Americans or other nationalities are there, the attacking of foreign troops is just an excuse and a diversion for violence.

IMHO the average Iraqi wants peace, yes they want all the foreign troops out, who wouldnt?

I understand that you posted these under 'the patriotic iraqi point of view' and these are 'not your view's, but I think they're wrong.

Spacemunkey



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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People the social structure and the religious believe in the middle east is totally different, only when the people is willing change will come.

Theocracy in the middle east will always be the ruling class, regardless of what any of you may said.

And they will never be totally democratic because that will mean Christians in their land worshiping the Christian god, muslins in the middle east will never allow that.

That is the differences here, the middle east conflict is seen by the middle east people as a fight against their religious believes.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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Iraq War - March 19, 2003 to May 2, 2003



Dang, so all those war images and video's we see on the news are 2 year old reruns??????????????????



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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im not sure if your being sarcastic...but no...they arent re-runs...the "war" is over...thats why the people now are being described as "insurgants"....



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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you can use the offical terms if you want I call what is going on there WAR



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