RCC Symbolism and it's meaning

The First Image:
The Wheel could be reference to the cycle of time with no beginning and no end, she is holding a symbol of what represent Christ. The Alpha and the Omega.

The Second Image:
Note the Upright Cresent she is standing on as well as the snake with the apple. It is representative of priestesess and female divine energy, and could have been a type of pagan inheritance in art to make them feel more at home in Christian themed Churches.

Phae

Has anyone else seen the overpowering references to Mary in the proceedings surrounding the Pope's illness and death? As a Christian, it's quite disturbing to me.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Has anyone else seen the overpowering references to Mary in the proceedings surrounding the Pope's illness and death? As a Christian, it's quite disturbing to me.

Havn't been looking that hard. Describe to us what you have noticed..

Well during a lot of the chanting etc. outside the Vatican was centered on Mary with just a few mentions of Jesus or God. I also have learned that the Pope had embroidered on his robe "Mary, I'm All Yours" in Latin. As they've been going over his life on the news channels, they've quoted him as praising people and groups around the world for being close to Mary. I think they said when he was dying "Jesus was opening the doors for him to enter heaven and into the embrace of Mary" or something...I mean it's just everywhere.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well during a lot of the chanting etc. outside the Vatican was centered on Mary with just a few mentions of Jesus or God. I also have learned that the Pope had embroidered on his robe "Mary, I'm All Yours" in Latin. As they've been going over his life on the news channels, they've quoted him as praising people and groups around the world for being close to Mary. I think they said when he was dying "Jesus was opening the doors for him to enter heaven and into the embrace of Mary" or something...I mean it's just everywhere.

There you go. Read my other post on this page: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Interesting regarding his robe. I didn't know that. Seems like it is worse than I thought! Just goes to support my theories.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well during a lot of the chanting etc. outside the Vatican was centered on Mary with just a few mentions of Jesus or God. I also have learned that the Pope had embroidered on his robe "Mary, I'm All Yours" in Latin. As they've been going over his life on the news channels, they've quoted him as praising people and groups around the world for being close to Mary. I think they said when he was dying "Jesus was opening the doors for him to enter heaven and into the embrace of Mary" or something...I mean it's just everywhere.

They were praying the Rosary. As you are not Catholic I would not expect you to know that while praying the words of the Rosary they were meditating on the life of Jesus.

I did not hear those words you are quoting about "Jesus opening the doors for him to enter into the embrace of Mary" but I could believe it if the words were reversed. That Mary was opening the doors for him to go to Jesus. Mary always points to her Son, Jesus. Don't you believe that Jesus had a love for his mother and would want us to honor her?

Originally posted by Mahree
The Catholic Church does not regard Mary as divine. We do honor her as the Mother of our Lord. She is not adored as the Holy Trinity is. I suggest you get hold of a copy of the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" if you want to tell us what the Catholic Church believes.

Well that’s not it seems. His holiness John Paul decreed in his Universi Dominici

Indeed, following the example of the first Christian community spoken of in the Acts of the Apostles (cf. 1:14), the universal Church, spiritually united with Mary, the Mother of Jesus, should persevere with one heart in prayer; thus the election of the new Pope will not be something unconnected with the People of God and concerning the College of electors alone, but will be in a certain sense an act of the whole Church.

And in the Fidei Depositum

At the conclusion of this document presenting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I beseech the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Incarnate Word and Mother of the Church, to support with her powerful intercession the catechetical work of the entire Church on every level, at this time when she is called to a new effort of evangelization.

Maybe I am wrong, maybe he has not given her reverence of anything more than being the mother of Jesus, and maybe what he means by the church universally united in Mary is really united in her son, and in beseeching her support he really means her son’s support.

What do I know though, I am just learning what it means to be a Roman Catholic. I defer to those with absolute knowledge.

Originally posted by Mahree

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well during a lot of the chanting etc. outside the Vatican was centered on Mary with just a few mentions of Jesus or God. I also have learned that the Pope had embroidered on his robe "Mary, I'm All Yours" in Latin. As they've been going over his life on the news channels, they've quoted him as praising people and groups around the world for being close to Mary. I think they said when he was dying "Jesus was opening the doors for him to enter heaven and into the embrace of Mary" or something...I mean it's just everywhere.

They were praying the Rosary. As you are not Catholic I would not expect you to know that while praying the words of the Rosary they were meditating on the life of Jesus.

I did not hear those words you are quoting about "Jesus opening the doors for him to enter into the embrace of Mary" but I could believe it if the words were reversed. That Mary was opening the doors for him to go to Jesus. Mary always points to her Son, Jesus. Don't you believe that Jesus had a love for his mother and would want us to honor her?

I think you will find that Mary holds more authority than Christ in the RCC church. Look at this picture taken from www.ourlady33.com...




Tell me how the devotion of Mary starting with Jesus points us to any one apart from Mary.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by Mahree
The Catholic Church does not regard Mary as divine. We do honor her as the Mother of our Lord. She is not adored as the Holy Trinity is. I suggest you get hold of a copy of the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" if you want to tell us what the Catholic Church believes.

Well that’s not it seems. His holiness John Paul decreed in his Universi Dominici

Indeed, following the example of the first Christian community spoken of in the Acts of the Apostles (cf. 1:14), the universal Church, spiritually united with Mary, the Mother of Jesus, should persevere with one heart in prayer; thus the election of the new Pope will not be something unconnected with the People of God and concerning the College of electors alone, but will be in a certain sense an act of the whole Church.

And in the Fidei Depositum

At the conclusion of this document presenting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I beseech the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Incarnate Word and Mother of the Church, to support with her powerful intercession the catechetical work of the entire Church on every level, at this time when she is called to a new effort of evangelization.

Maybe I am wrong, maybe he has not given her reverence of anything more than being the mother of Jesus, and maybe what he means by the church universally united in Mary is really united in her son, and in beseeching her support he really means her son’s support.

What do I know though, I am just learning what it means to be a Roman Catholic. I defer to those with absolute knowledge.

I'm sorry if I come across as having "absolute knowledge". I didn't mean to do that.

As a member of the Roman Catholic Church I have tried to explain, in my small way, some of events in the Catholic Church which you have questioned.

We do believe that Mary helps us, prays for us, and only leads us to her Son.

Originally posted by shmick25

Originally posted by Mahree

Originally posted by djohnsto77

I think you will find that Mary holds more authority than Christ in the RCC church. Look at this picture taken from www.ourlady33.com...




Tell me how the devotion of Mary starting with Jesus points us to any one apart from Mary.

All devotions to Mary are about Jesus. I do not believe that Mary holds more authority than Christ in the RCC church. Mary is the mother of God and so deserves our honor, not worship. She always tries to help us worship and follow her Son.

I am not so good at expressing my thoughts and meanings so please excuse me if I am giving a wrong impression.

Hi Mahree,

No one can tell you what to believe, you have to figure it our yourself. At the end of the day, we need to walk in both spirit and in truth. Uncovering the truth should be priority though. Why acknowledge Mary anyway? Do you need her for your prayers to be heard by Christ or God?

Jesus states quite clearly that noone can get to the father except through him. This has not changed.

Originally posted by shmick25
Hi Mahree,

No one can tell you what to believe, you have to figure it our yourself. At the end of the day, we need to walk in both spirit and in truth. Uncovering the truth should be priority though. Why acknowledge Mary anyway? Do you need her for your prayers to be heard by Christ or God?

Jesus states quite clearly that noone can get to the father except through him. This has not changed.

Again perhaps I will express myself badly. I believe what Jesus has stated: "no one can get to the Father except through him" But, I believe that Mary helps us in different ways to be closer to her Son and follow His Word.

No, I don't believe that I need Mary for my prayers to be heard by Jesus or God. Whenever I pray the Rosary I am meditating on some part of the life of Jesus. I understand that I do not need to pray the Rosary to meditate on the life of Jesus, but to me it is discipline and help.

I think they said when he was dying "Jesus was opening the doors for him to enter heaven and into the embrace of Mary" or something...I mean it's just everywhere.

Well, I'm not Catholic or anything but I don't exactly see the problem with that. After all it is John who wrote:
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Think of it as a metaphor for, Christ being the Doorway or Path which is the only means of getting to Heaven and what could be more Heavenly than the Loving Embrace of The Primortial Mother, Mary.

Think about it.
Virgin Mary...Mother to Jesus "Spirit of God in Man Form"...Jesus "The Christ" being the Door to the Kingdom of God...

Don't view it like traditional Dogma or Literal Translation. Think of it in an Esoteric or Gnostic kind of way. What other meaning can you think of that also fits in to what is being said here???

Originally posted by mOjOm

I think they said when he was dying "Jesus was opening the doors for him to enter heaven and into the embrace of Mary" or something...I mean it's just everywhere.

Well, I'm not Catholic or anything but I don't exactly see the problem with that. After all it is John who wrote:
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Think of it as a metaphor for, Christ being the Doorway or Path which is the only means of getting to Heaven and what could be more Heavenly than the Loving Embrace of The Primortial Mother, Mary.

Think about it.
Virgin Mary...Mother to Jesus "Spirit of God in Man Form"...Jesus "The Christ" being the Door to the Kingdom of God...

Don't view it like traditional Dogma or Literal Translation. Think of it in an Esoteric or Gnostic kind of way. What other meaning can you think of that also fits in to what is being said here???

I think the general belief is that the RCC is suppose to be christian, not Esoteric or Gnostic. I'm not denying they have theology like this but it seems to be the wolf in the sheeps clothing type of thing.

The state of the dead in religion is a major component to the faith, however, I believe the bible indicates that when we die, we do not go straight to heaven as the majority are inclined to believe. We simply cease to exist until judgement. ( or sleep like we did before we were born) The Bible makes reference to the fact that 'the dead no nothing'

Besides, even IF you did go straight to heaven when we die, what guarentees that the Pope will go there anyway. Simply because he has an man made title of Vicar of Christ does not guarentee salvation. Man does not do the judgeing. Seems to me like mere superstition.

I'll make my contribution as a knowledgeable ex-Catholic:

intercession: a prayer to God on behalf of another person

That guy, Bob, across the street, can be an intercessor. The only difference between him and Mary is that Bob is still alive, and very much real.

As I've said in other threads, criticize the RCC using truth, not misconceptions. The truth is that Catholicism, and all of Christianity for that matter, suffer from plurium interrogationum.

Originally posted by shmick25
I think the general belief is that the RCC is suppose to be christian, not Esoteric or Gnostic. I'm not denying they have theology like this but it seems to be the wolf in the sheeps clothing type of thing.

Perhaps I should clarify when using the words Esoteric and Gnostic in that I'm not talking about Herecy or Gnostic Peoples themselves. I'm using it in the basic meaning which would be Esoteric (knowledge which is unknown except by a small group of people) & Gnostic (possessing spiritual knowledge). So from my perspective and I think most people would agree, that Christianity as well as all other Religious Knowledge is very Esoteric Gnosis (Largely Unknown or Misunderstood Spiritual Knowledge). If that wasn't true then there wouldn't be so many conflicting versions which divide the majority of people on this planet. You see what I'm saying???

Besides, even IF you did go straight to heaven when we die, what guarentees that the Pope will go there anyway. Simply because he has an man made title of Vicar of Christ does not guarentee salvation. Man does not do the judgeing. Seems to me like mere superstition.

I won't argue with you there. Maybe the Pope is sittin' on a flaming pitchfork as we speak, I couldn't tell ya either way and like I said earlier I'm not Catholic so who'd believe me even if I could. In fact I would say that anyone who regards the Vicor as anything but a man is very much mistaken and a lost sheep, so again I'd have to say I'm in agreement with you. However, all these interesting points and factual references aside, you still haven't said anything in regards to my question.

That question being, "Without the traditional Dogma or Literal Translation. What other meaning can you think of that also fits in to the following phrase?"

"Jesus was opening the doors for him to enter heaven and into the embrace of Mary"

mOjOm: are you saying that the pope and mary are going to get it on?

Originally posted by shmick25
mOjOm: are you saying that the pope and mary are going to get it on?

No.......

Although I suppose in a strange way you did answer my question without using the Standard Literal or Dogmatic methods, which was what I was asking you to do.

But I was trying for a slightly more creative, deeper, metaphoric kind of idea than that one.

Originally posted by shmick25

Originally posted by mOjOm

Besides, even IF you did go straight to heaven when we die, what guarantees that the Pope will go there anyway. Simply because he has an man made title of Vicar of Christ does not guarentee salvation. Man does not do the judgeing. Seems to me like mere superstition.

You are correct. We don't know if the Pope has gone to heaven. We will still pray for him. But, being Catholic, we do believe in Purgatory.

Could you fill me in on the story of purgatory, I sill do not understand where it came from (as it isnt in the Bible). Why do you believe in it?

[edit on 3-4-2005 by shmick25]