Forget Wikileaks...this is the real October Surprise that is going to stop Hillary

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: mobiusmale

Most people get their insurance through their work, the next largest segment has Medicare/Medicaid. Those that get their insurance through the exchanges, not all of them are experiencing a large premium hike.

The people you are talking about that are effected by these premium hikes are a small minority that won't tilt the election one way or another.

But go ahead and think this will change blue states to red.

But those companies are paying those premiums and each year they cover less and less of that premium and it is passed to the employee. This means an increase to your contribution. It can also lead to loss of jobs. I have said this time and again. I am in this industry and I have seen first hand in the last 8 years everything from a small business with 75 employees to a government contractor with 500 all slash jobs and eventually...fold. It is not entirely because of the ACA but it is a large component. In the past many employers would entice new employees with free healthcare. It is not feasible anymore.

You are also forgetting that those who are covered get subsidies. Where do you think those subsidies come from? Your tax dollar. Then, if you do not elect coverage from an employer or from the marketplace for 2016 there is the following

2.5 percent of your annual household income above the tax filing threshold to a cap of the national average bronze plan premium.

$695 per adult and $347.50 per child under 18 to a maximum penalty of $2,085 per family.

So if you are a family who cannot afford health insurance from your work or you do not carry it you are looking at a 'tax penalty' of 2000.

It never worked and needs to be replaced with a system to allow competition. Right now there is no reason that the same coverage should be 4000 a month in NY and 2500 in Maine. That example is my monthly premium in my home office being changed and we are now based in NYC and not Maine. 1500 a month extra. I could buy a second home or a Benz AMG...

There is a loophole for those that care. My family has double coverage with it. They are called Health Shares. I use Liberty Health Share. The loophole is they use religious exemptions to get out of ACA. It is a bit of a pain because you have to submit your claims for reimbursement, but it works great and I have yet to not have a claim go through. It is under $500 for family coverage. Individual is really low.

a reply to: lordcomac

This is exactly what I am talking about.

a reply to: Greggers

You somehow believe those with the most resources will stick around if they're forced to pay more? That's the real foundation of trickle down economics, because without it there are zero jobs.

a reply to: mobiusmale

So
...Minus those getting insurance via their employer..
...Minus those getting Medicaid
...Minus those getting Medicare
Leaves Obamacare exchanges..
...Minus those getting subsidies to cover the increase

Leaves the small number of people on Obamacare Exchanges despite making too much to receive subsidies..

And those small percentage of folks see an increase that is actually right on target for OBM estimates given in 2009 before the law went into effect and STILL DRRAMATICLLY LESS than the estimated trajectories of rate increases everyone agreed would happen absent Obamacare and it had never happened at all.

That and take away 15-20 Million peoples health insurance...

Not seeing the political advantage..

a reply to: GoShredAK

He spent an entire day on it.

a reply to: kruphix

I get insurance through my work and it's gone up a crazy amount in both my premiums and my max out of pocket.

a reply to: Greggers

Almost like it was a plan all along.

a reply to: kruphix

Most people get their insurance through their work, the next largest segment has Medicare/Medicaid. Those that get their insurance through the exchanges, not all of them are experiencing a large premium hike. The people you are talking about that are effected by these premium hikes are a small minority that won't tilt the election one way or another. But go ahead and think this will change blue states to red.

That's not how it works.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Employer sponsored rates are high too.

It's cutting into employees' pay.

Wake up voters !!!

2016 Employer Health Benefits Survey

True. I work for a large Clinical Research Organization (CRO) and here is a snippet of the company-wide email we received:

Health care costs continue to escalate at [our company] and throughout America. As a result, the cost coverage is increasing for you and the Company. Premiums paid by you each pay period are increasing at different rates for our medical plans.

The rate increases equate to 12% for our Plus plan and 6% for our Basic plan.

Mind you I just added my son (2 months old) and my wife to my insurance plan because she will not be heading back to work anytime soon because we dont trust any daycare (not to mention the daycare cost) nor nanny to raise our son. Decisions decisions!

Fun stuff!

originally posted by: Greggers

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Greggers

You advocate raising taxes on those making over 700k a year only?
And that will cover obamacare?

Yeah math and stuff........

Perhaps you'd like to present your math. What I do know is that the wealthiest one percent have socked away enormous reserves of cash at unprecedented amounts, while the rest of society gets poorer and poorer. The wealthiest handful of people have enough money to flat-out pay for the healthcare of a vast percentage of the American population.

America's wealthiest 20 people have more money than the bottom 152 million people.

www.marketwatch.com...


Incidentally, these are also the people who own our government.

My math is not in question....I asked you how raising the income taxes on those making 700k or more are going to pay for obama care. You were the one to present the raising the income taxes on the 1% as a solution.

Oh you don't mean just raising the income taxes on those making more than 700k per year. What you seem to be proposing is just having the 1% pay for obamacare? What does the amout of money the weathiest 20 people have to do with a crappy law passed by the dems?

It appears to me you just want to transfer the wealth (not income taxes) from one person to another. You just seem to be shy about calling it what it is....communism. Yeah that is always popular. I can see why you do not wish to call it what it really is.

I would love to see the dems campaign on the issues.

originally posted by: bender151
a reply to: Greggers

You somehow believe those with the most resources will stick around if they're forced to pay more? That's the real foundation of trickle down economics, because without it there are zero jobs.

Trickle down economics doesn't work. When rich people get tax breaks, they have an opportunity to save it. Often, they do. When poor people get tax breaks, they dump it right back into the economy because they have to.

But that's neither here nor there.

Whether they will stay here is a question worth asking. It depends upon how their assets are tied up. Some things are easier to move than others. It also depends upon to what extent globalization has eroded our ability to prevent them from moving all their capital out of the country sans taxation, which of course is one of the reasons why the wealthy elite pushed for globalization to begin with.

Globalization allows the elite to move their capital freely without consequence without any regard for the welfare of those in the country where their money was earned.

So it might not be as easy as simply levying a new tax.

Unraveling 30 years or runaway power/money consolidation is harder than that.

a reply to: mobiusmale

You'll notice the rates didn't become "official" till after the debates.

..... Probably just a coincidence, right?

originally posted by: shooterbrody

My math is not in question....

Then please show it.

I asked you how raising the income taxes on those making 700k or more are going to pay for obama care. You were the one to present the raising the income taxes on the 1% as a solution.

That's your definition of 1%, not mine. I personally do not define the upper 1 percent by the amount of income they made last year.

Oh you don't mean just raising the income taxes on those making more than 700k per year. What you seem to be proposing is just having the 1% pay for obamacare?

My thesis is that the wealthy elite should be paying for a lot more than they are, and for the past 3 decades they've essentially stolen the government from us, as it no longer represents We the People. There's more than just income tax. Many taxes primarily effect the super wealthy, or effect them disproportionately, but of course those taxes have been lowered by their concentrated efforts to stick regular folks with the bulk of the responsibility for sustaining the society that made them rich.

What does the amout of money the weathiest 20 people have to do with a crappy law passed by the dems?

It has to do with my original point that the wealthiest Americans have managed to take over our government and to consolidate money/power at unprecedented rates, and any solution must involve greater equality between the super rich and regular people.

It appears to me you just want to transfer the wealth (not income taxes) from one person to another. You just seem to be shy about calling it what it is....communism. Yeah that is always popular. I can see why you do not wish to call it what it really is.

We already have a socialist system. In fact, our socialist policies benefit the wealthiest Americans more than any other group.

Of course, the wealthy elite have spent a lot of money indoctrinating Americans to vote against their best interests.

As stated earlier to you all The sh##s want a single payer system ONLY and OBAMACARE was designed to create that .
www.activistpost.com...

originally posted by: GoShredAK
I don't understand why Trump hasn't been all over this opportunity. He should stop with the nonsense shooting himself in the foot crap and focus on this news to sway more voters to his side.

Instead he has been babbling about his awesome golf course. It is times like these that make me think he must be taking a dive on purpose.

What you say makes sense, but I think Trump is just overly confident at times. Which is probably a yuge reason that he became a billionair. I think America needs that type of leader right now to fix the mess.

soulwaxer

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
As stated earlier to you all The sh##s want a single payer system ONLY and OBAMACARE was designed to create that .
www.activistpost.com...

The medical system is racing headlong toward single payer irrespective of the ACA.

And I'm not a shill.

The individual mandate and the exchanges were REPUBLICAN policies that the 2010 Dems FOOLISHLY included in this law trying to "reach across the aisle" and then had the Republcians screw the deal over 100%

Obama hid in the White House while all this was going on, rather than going after his promise of single payer.

Aside from that, health insurance premiums have been going up annually FOR DECADES. You're deluding yourself if you think increases are only the result of the ACA.

But, I'm all for scraping the ACA and going to a single payer plan. Perhaps offer the Cadillac plan that Congress and Federal Employees have access to.

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: mobiusmale

Most people get their insurance through their work, the next largest segment has Medicare/Medicaid. Those that get their insurance through the exchanges, not all of them are experiencing a large premium hike.

The people you are talking about that are effected by these premium hikes are a small minority that won't tilt the election one way or another.

But go ahead and think this will change blue states to red.

Not true.

I work for a multinational multi billion dollar company who pays for our insurance. Year before last, my insurance premiums went up as well as our plan. We paid a minimal flat fee and everything was taken care of.

Last year, this changed. Now we pay a fee and 20% and a premium.

This year... here shortly, that premium has gone up again!

Now, as with last year... It's pointless for me to even have insurance (but I pay a fine if I don't) or even bother going to the doctor for anything because I certainly can't afford the premium PLUS the 20%. Now an even higher premium!

Here is how it goes now...

Go to the doc for an issue: 25$

Not bad huh? But wait...

That doctor sends me to another doctor... Now I pay a specialist fee: 35$

That doctor sets an appointment for whatever needs doing: Premium: 500$ then 20% of the total cost including all facility costs and procedure.

what's the friggin point now...


So you can't tell me it only hurts the lil guy. It's across the board. In the last 2 years, our company went from Signa to Blue Cross now to even higher premiums and a slight increase in initial visit cost.

Obamacare hurts everyone! Unless you make nothing, hardly nothing or on welfare!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
The individual mandate and the exchanges were REPUBLICAN policies that the 2010 Dems FOOLISHLY included in this law trying to "reach across the aisle" and then had the Republcians screw the deal over 100%

Obama hid in the White House while all this was going on, rather than going after his promise of single payer.

Aside from that, health insurance premiums have been going up annually FOR DECADES. You're deluding yourself if you think increases are only the result of the ACA.

But, I'm all for scraping the ACA and going to a single payer plan. Perhaps offer the Cadillac plan that Congress and Federal Employees have access to.

The main selling point of the ACA was that it was going to provide better coverage for most Americans at a savings of 2,500 a year per family. It was also supposed to Slow the growth of the cost of health insurance. Obama setup the ACA to last through a second term by front-loading money into it the first few years. Ir was always destined to fail unless every thing worked out perfectly. It has been on this course since the start, once millennials didn't purchase, the writing was on the wall......