Is it cheating?

originally posted by: Mousygretchen
a reply to: trollz


Not to mention, the possibility that she is using low self esteem as an excuse.

It does sound like an excuse.

a reply to: Assassin82

We are not children. Do not involve his family. He will come home to a wife that has thrown his $!#/ in the yard and taken the kids (if any). Next day fiance is fired because his life is now jacked and the lives even those not involved are all now ruined. This is poor advice.

She is not a child and if she cannot stand up for herself or you by saying no, then what? U find his under wear in the laundry one day and it's "but I was scared. I would lose my job." Uh no. Sexual harrasement is not taken lightly anywhere anymore especially this type. The answer is so obvious.

"She didn't cheat.... yet" uggh and omg. What would happen if she found an email of porn you sent to a coworker in such a way? Like another poster said "if you have to ask..." you already know the answer my friend .

If her professional career is so important and high up then she must have SOME level of maturity. In which case it would have never gotten this far. No this is something else.

Can it be fixed? Perhaps... in time if she does what is needed and proves it was what she said it was instead of what it now appears with this type of immature conduct.

Ok I'm ranting now. I am sorry. Take it or leave it. This isn't a subject I take lightly. Grew up in a nuclear family and had to go through the worst of the worst with no context and noway to know how to handle it. Spent over a decade picking up the pieces. My 20's were lost to it.

Best of luck my friend. I hope everything comes out ok.

a reply to: Assassin82

Sorry you are in a fix here.

Based on just what you've shared, I wouldn't call it cheating exactly, but it is surely an indication of character.

Not in a million years would I ever, ever do 'research' into porn, and send a colleague the 'results'. Not even in my young and naive days. If that was expected behavior from the boss, I'd drop my badge on his desk on the way out the door, and tell him to expect a call from my attorney.

Hell, I can count on one hand the numberof times I've had lunch one-on-one with a male colleague ... I don't even want to create a hint of appearance that I'm trying to be personal and intimate with a colleague. I don't want gossip around the office, I don't want mutual friends to say o my husband 'Hey, I saw your wife out to lunch with a dude last week'.

Yeah, I'm the office prude. It really cuts down on the drama, and I'm ok with that.

a reply to: Assassin82

a reply to: worldstarcountry

the guys in pain...

levity at this time might be misunderstood

a reply to: kibric

a reply to: Assassin82
Honestly, to me, it feels like there's more to it already. If they hadn't already seriously talked about sex she wouldn't be sending him that video.

Some of the best advice I've heard was, "If you can take my woman from me, she isn't my woman." If my girlfriend cheats on me, I don't want to be with her. So you're actually doing me a favor by bringing that to my attention so I can move on with my life and find who I'm really supposed to be with.

Life always goes on. Even if sometimes it seems like it won't.

a reply to: Assassin82

There are two main types of exclusivity to a relationship, unless one happens to be in one of these new fangled open arrangements of course, but for the purposes of this discussion, lets dispense with that facet for now.

The two main types of exclusivity in a romantic relationship, are physical exclusivity, whereby a person swears that access to their physical person is restricted to all but their partner, in the intimate and sexual sense. Essentially ones erogenous zones and amorous contact is limited to the singular individual one is in the relationship with.

The next type of exclusivity, is emotional exclusivity, whereby the partners in the relationship are under an obligation to restrict themselves to desiring emotional intimacy only with their counterpart in the relationship, and do not share the same emotional connection with anyone else. For example, there should only be one person that a relationship partner says "I love you" to in a romantic sense.

Now, the difficulties here as I see them, are that although it does not seem as if either emotional or physical exclusivity have been violated at this point, the nature of the situation your partner is facing is of a sort which complicates things rather a lot. Three letter agency...with respect, there are quite a few of them, and not all of them have structure of the sort which makes establishing personal boundaries in the work place difficult. CIA? Sure, that's a tough one, because there is an awful lot of ladder work in that organisation, those higher up being CONSIDERABLY less likely to be slapped down a peg by the management for bad behaviour, than those further down. This makes reporting and dealing with work place impropriety difficult for a person under pressure.

But in the EPA or DEA? Not so much.

Unless your partner is in an agency which deals directly with national security, her concerns and yours should be dealt with by pushing the matter up the chain and having the fellow dealt with through that method, not by pussyfooting around on your significant others part, and allowing the impropriety to continue.

If she is in an agency which deals with national security, then very often the individual segments of those organisations are laws unto themselves, as are the psychopathic, evil minded bags of pus who ordinarily gravitate toward those agencies, the promise of power and invisibility drawing them in like moths to flame. Getting things the way you want them in those agencies is very difficult.

In short, there appears to have been no break down in exclusivity, and until there has been such a breakdown, I would err on the side of supporting your woman through this issue, rather than making it all about you, though I fully understand your concerns about it.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Assassin82

There are two main types of exclusivity to a relationship, unless one happens to be in one of these new fangled open arrangements of course, but for the purposes of this discussion, lets dispense with that facet for now.

The two main types of exclusivity in a romantic relationship, are physical exclusivity, whereby a person swears that access to their physical person is restricted to all but their partner, in the intimate and sexual sense. Essentially ones erogenous zones and amorous contact is limited to the singular individual one is in the relationship with.

The next type of exclusivity, is emotional exclusivity, whereby the partners in the relationship are under an obligation to restrict themselves to desiring emotional intimacy only with their counterpart in the relationship, and do not share the same emotional connection with anyone else. For example, there should only be one person that a relationship partner says "I love you" to in a romantic sense.

Now, the difficulties here as I see them, are that although it does not seem as if either emotional or physical exclusivity have been violated at this point, the nature of the situation your partner is facing is of a sort which complicates things rather a lot. Three letter agency...with respect, there are quite a few of them, and not all of them have structure of the sort which makes establishing personal boundaries in the work place difficult. CIA? Sure, that's a tough one, because there is an awful lot of ladder work in that organisation, those higher up being CONSIDERABLY less likely to be slapped down a peg by the management for bad behaviour, than those further down. This makes reporting and dealing with work place impropriety difficult for a person under pressure.

But in the EPA or DEA? Not so much.

Unless your partner is in an agency which deals directly with national security, her concerns and yours should be dealt with by pushing the matter up the chain and having the fellow dealt with through that method, not by pussyfooting around on your significant others part, and allowing the impropriety to continue.

If she is in an agency which deals with national security, then very often the individual segments of those organisations are laws unto themselves, as are the psychopathic, evil minded bags of pus who ordinarily gravitate toward those agencies, the promise of power and invisibility drawing them in like moths to flame. Getting things the way you want them in those agencies is very difficult.

In short, there appears to have been no break down in exclusivity, and until there has been such a breakdown, I would err on the side of supporting your woman through this issue, rather than making it all about you, though I fully understand your concerns about it.

Imagine an agency that's competent at investigating emails....

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Assassin82

There are two main types of exclusivity to a relationship, unless one happens to be in one of these new fangled open arrangements of course, but for the purposes of this discussion, lets dispense with that facet for now.

The two main types of exclusivity in a romantic relationship, are physical exclusivity, whereby a person swears that access to their physical person is restricted to all but their partner, in the intimate and sexual sense. Essentially ones erogenous zones and amorous contact is limited to the singular individual one is in the relationship with.

The next type of exclusivity, is emotional exclusivity, whereby the partners in the relationship are under an obligation to restrict themselves to desiring emotional intimacy only with their counterpart in the relationship, and do not share the same emotional connection with anyone else. For example, there should only be one person that a relationship partner says "I love you" to in a romantic sense.

Now, the difficulties here as I see them, are that although it does not seem as if either emotional or physical exclusivity have been violated at this point, the nature of the situation your partner is facing is of a sort which complicates things rather a lot. Three letter agency...with respect, there are quite a few of them, and not all of them have structure of the sort which makes establishing personal boundaries in the work place difficult. CIA? Sure, that's a tough one, because there is an awful lot of ladder work in that organisation, those higher up being CONSIDERABLY less likely to be slapped down a peg by the management for bad behaviour, than those further down. This makes reporting and dealing with work place impropriety difficult for a person under pressure.

But in the EPA or DEA? Not so much.

Unless your partner is in an agency which deals directly with national security, her concerns and yours should be dealt with by pushing the matter up the chain and having the fellow dealt with through that method, not by pussyfooting around on your significant others part, and allowing the impropriety to continue.

If she is in an agency which deals with national security, then very often the individual segments of those organisations are laws unto themselves, as are the psychopathic, evil minded bags of pus who ordinarily gravitate toward those agencies, the promise of power and invisibility drawing them in like moths to flame. Getting things the way you want them in those agencies is very difficult.

In short, there appears to have been no break down in exclusivity, and until there has been such a breakdown, I would err on the side of supporting your woman through this issue, rather than making it all about you, though I fully understand your concerns about it.

Sorry for not being direct....im hoping being subtle will help it keep a low profile. Im sure they have programs that pick up on key words and what not. I don't know if I'm being discreet about it or not...but it makes me feel like I am.

a reply to: Assassin82

Get a plan mate. To leave. Cut your feelings off. Move on. There are persons out there in the big wide world that will appreciate you and assist in your life's plan.

Just leave, look after yourself and get your head together. Be selfish.

Kind regards,

bally

a reply to: Assassin82

I fully understand what you are getting at, and your preference for discretion.

All I would say, is that the organisation she is working for is not structured around right and wrong, or even legality or illegality. It is centered and constructed around power and possession of or access to information. Depending on who, precisely is involved, it could be more than her job is worth to make an issue out of this, and while I would personally never sacrifice principle for a pay packet, I can understand why someone might be pressured to do so, especially if any significant resources of training have been expended, and expertise have been gained in pursuit of the career path she is on.

That does not make things any easier for you necessarily, but it would explain why there is no wish on her part to make a noisy display of things in the workplace, or push a complaint up the chain. The only thing you can do, is make a decision for yourself at the end of the day. If you value your partner and trust her, and know that no matter what the intentions of her superior at work, she will remain faithful to you in the emotional and physical sense, that any reluctance on her part to make issue of the behaviour of her higher up has to do with the fact that nothing will be done and it will make her life unreasonably difficult at a job she has trained long and hard for, then you need to suck it up, be there for her and understand that the circumstances probably put her under more strain than they do you.

If that is not what you believe, if you do not trust your woman that well, if you suspect with good reason that far from being worried about repercussions of any remedial action she might take, she is quite happy with the situation and does not mind the attention she is getting from this pest, then perhaps hitting the bricks would be an idea.

In short, its about trust. Do you trust her motivations.

Trust is the most important part of any relationship!

Every woman has her own personal line in the sand that she not prepared to cross

and every one of them different.


I can empathise with the situation in the OP as I have been in the same situation

as the fiancee (due to various positions I have held) many, many times.


Having said that .... i bantered, flirted and used everything to my advantage

never crossing my personal line or allowing anyone over it, I cant tell you how

many hands I have removed from my person and how many lunges ended up in

anothers embarrassment.


On one occassion at a conference of approx 100 salesman and five or six females

(of which I was one) I walked into the after dinner entertainment which was a

film...what I saw was.... porn! ... I walked straight out, that was part of my line

that I was not prepared to cross, to compromise my integrity.


I have lost/left jobs to keep my line in the sand and integrity intact.


Every woman sets her own standards.

originally posted by: JinMI
Absolutely not.

Support your partner and go after the problem (the boss). Nail his scummy arse to a wall. No reason this dbag should come between you and your soon to be spouse. She clearly bent around his whims to keep herself gainfully employed. She was sent some crap and denied none of it.

Lets say you signed up for a purchase offer or a survey or some other random internet thing that required your email address. Then they sold your address to some other company that in turn sent you an offer to a porn site? Is that cheating?

Quick tip. You being her fiancé is her biggest help to her self esteem.

I just had to repost this response, cause I find it so succinct and relevant. Especially the last part I bolded.
Her boss makes uninvited moves on her, and somehow she needs a life coach and lacks self esteem? Her boss is a friggin predator taking advantage of his position, and her lack of position, seniority and frankly, that's she's a young, beautiful woman......

Maybe it's just me. I'm a woman, used to be somewhat attractive when I was younger. When all this stuff started coming out about Trump, a powerful, wealthy mover and shaker, and his behavior with women, I didn't doubt it for a second. I could easily see all that happening, and not because I dislike Trump or anything. But because when I was a certain age, the same kinds of things happened to me with bosses, or men in positions of power and influence greater than mine. I don't think that's rare at all for women, in general, to experience. Recently, in fact, someone I repeatedly rebuffed advances from physically by moving their hand away from my body, literally, then began to show me porn on his cell phone he claimed he couldn't get off his cell, and would I help him get it off. Obviously, the goal there was thinking he could get me turned on somehow by watching this crap on his phone while ostensibly trying to "help" him get rid of it.....LOL Absolutely ridiculous.

She hasn't lied to you. The fact she was even honest that she might have secretly and slightly enjoyed that attention from a powerful man is huge, imho. She's facing the realities, and her reality as a woman in that particular career field, as you describe, is quite different than anything you'll ever have to deal with.

She doesn't need a life coach for her self esteem. She needs affirmation from the man she loves that he has faith in her and understands her situation, and appreciates her honesty. That's why she'll continue to be honest with you. Otherwise, there will just be resentment for your lack of understanding, and succumbing to climbing the career ladder in other ways than talent and hard work, and looking for someone who appreciates you in every possible way will overtake your relationship. I think you'd know if she physically cheated on you, but I'm not gonna go into the obvious details and physical giveaways that would tell you that. And looking at another reply, id she use you and then discard you? Really? I didn't get that out of your OP at all.

A career life for a woman is a whole different situation than it is for a man, even today. If someone else is finding her that attractive, you are a lucky man, indeed. Appreciate her for her mind, her psyche, her integrity, her sexuality and her body, and support her and provide understanding and compassion, and I can almost guarantee you, you'll never have a single worry about her cheating.

The best part of this is it sounds like you are both keeping an honest, though difficult and sometimes painful, dialogue going on. That improves your chances at a successful and long lasting relationship exponentially. Even when we love someone with all our heart, it doesn't mean we stop being attracted to other people. That isn't cheating, though. Flirting and enjoying the fact that you are attractive to other people, still, than just your mate, is a necessity imho to keeping a healthy sexuality alive and well in your committed relationship.

Hang in there. You clearly love her. But understand that a lot of this issue hasn't a single thing to do with her or cheating. It's just the landscape of being a career woman in a man's world, quite bluntly. If the dude is resorting to sending her porn, it's pretty pathetic. In my experience, porn isn't what trips a woman's trigger, usually, That visual aspect of sex is much more male engrained..... He probably sent her the porn because she was constantly rebuffing his advances....

Without going in to detail, I've been through almost exactly the same thing. My sincere advice is this : You are being lied to. Period. You may think you know what she will or won't do, as in "She'd never cheat on me", but I'm here to tell you, you don't. This IS a big deal and more than likely, she is/has been cheating with her boss.

Here's the key to the whole problem : If she doesn't go through with the sexual harassment complaint and looks for excuses not to, you know she's in it far more than you thought. She needs to show you copies of the complaint she files.
I hate people who cheat. I mean a serious, despising, spit it their face hatred for people who do that to others. Only you know the details and what's going on as far as the harassment claim... but watch your back. This may get a lot worse, before it gets better.

I was searching for an email we sent to a vendor when I found an email she sent to her boss. The email was part of a "homework assignment" he gave her. It included a link to a pornsite with a video of a Boss/Secretary scenario. It was personal. It was done with intent. I consider it cheating.

It's easy for me to say this from outside of the situation, but that would be more than enough for me. If she's not cheating already, she most certainly will. No doubt about that.

She claims that because of his high rank, she couldn't turn him in for harassment, she couldn't ask him to stop, and she didn't know what else to do but play along in his fantasy.

Here she's just making up excuses. She wants to f%#k the boss, and wants you to be okay with it. Honestly, I'd save myself from a lot of suffering and end this now.

you have blinders on dude.
she is banging her boss, will bang her boss, has banged her boss, or wants to bang her boss.
you just dont want to believe it.

she took the time to find a specific type of porno vid and send it to another guy and you are being supportive.
come on man.....you have to see what is happening and just dont want to believe it.

if she was not or will not bang the dude she would have come right to you with the 'assignment' for you both to work out together. instead she sent him a vid.

do you not wonder about what happens when you are not around? that # would be driving me crazy.

everyone deals with this stuff in their own way but if i found a porno video my wife sent to another guy her # would be all over the front yard like right now.
yeah, it would destroy me and i would be an emotional wreck but we would be basically finished from that moment

originally posted by: tetra50
I just had to repost this response, cause I find it so succinct and relevant. Especially the last part I bolded.
Her boss makes uninvited moves on her, and somehow she needs a life coach and lacks self esteem? Her boss is a friggin predator taking advantage of his position, and her lack of position, seniority and frankly, that's she's a young, beautiful woman......

Maybe it's just me. I'm a woman, used to be somewhat attractive when I was younger. When all this stuff started coming out about Trump, a powerful, wealthy mover and shaker, and his behavior with women, I didn't doubt it for a second. I could easily see all that happening, and not because I dislike Trump or anything. But because when I was a certain age, the same kinds of things happened to me with bosses, or men in positions of power and influence greater than mine. I don't think that's rare at all for women, in general, to experience. Recently, in fact, someone I repeatedly rebuffed advances from physically by moving their hand away from my body, literally, then began to show me porn on his cell phone he claimed he couldn't get off his cell, and would I help him get it off. Obviously, the goal there was thinking he could get me turned on somehow by watching this crap on his phone while ostensibly trying to "help" him get rid of it.....LOL Absolutely ridiculous.
She hasn't lied to you. The fact she was even honest that she might have secretly and slightly enjoyed that attention from a powerful man is huge, imho. She's facing the realities, and her reality as a woman in that particular career field, as you describe, is quite different than anything you'll ever have to deal with.

She doesn't need a life coach for her self esteem. She needs affirmation from the man she loves that he has faith in her and understands her situation, and appreciates her honesty. That's why she'll continue to be honest with you. Otherwise, there will just be resentment for your lack of understanding, and succumbing to climbing the career ladder in other ways than talent and hard work, and looking for someone who appreciates you in every possible way will overtake your relationship. I think you'd know if she physically cheated on you, but I'm not gonna go into the obvious details and physical giveaways that would tell you that. And looking at another reply, id she use you and then discard you? Really? I didn't get that out of your OP at all.

A career life for a woman is a whole different situation than it is for a man, even today. If someone else is finding her that attractive, you are a lucky man, indeed. Appreciate her for her mind, her psyche, her integrity, her sexuality and her body, and support her and provide understanding and compassion, and I can almost guarantee you, you'll never have a single worry about her cheating.

The best part of this is it sounds like you are both keeping an honest, though difficult and sometimes painful, dialogue going on. That improves your chances at a successful and long lasting relationship exponentially. Even when we love someone with all our heart, it doesn't mean we stop being attracted to other people. That isn't cheating, though. Flirting and enjoying the fact that you are attractive to other people, still, than just your mate, is a necessity imho to keeping a healthy sexuality alive and well in your committed relationship.

Hang in there. You clearly love her. But understand that a lot of this issue hasn't a single thing to do with her or cheating. It's just the landscape of being a career woman in a man's world, quite bluntly. If the dude is resorting to sending her porn, it's pretty pathetic. In my experience, porn isn't what trips a woman's trigger, usually, That visual aspect of sex is much more male engrained..... He probably sent her the porn because she was constantly rebuffing his advances....

I applaud your post .....

Much like I was trying to explain in my post above yours.

An attractive woman learns how to use a males stupidity to survive in a male

orientated work place by using his egocentric immaturity against himself!

originally posted by: eletheia

Trust is the most important part of any relationship!

Every woman has her own personal line in the sand that she not prepared to cross

and every one of them different.


I can empathise with the situation in the OP as I have been in the same situation

as the fiancee (due to various positions I have held) many, many times.


Having said that .... i bantered, flirted and used everything to my advantage

never crossing my personal line or allowing anyone over it, I cant tell you how

many hands I have removed from my person and how many lunges ended up in

anothers embarrassment.


On one occassion at a conference of approx 100 salesman and five or six females

(of which I was one) I walked into the after dinner entertainment which was a

film...what I saw was.... porn! ... I walked straight out, that was part of my line

that I was not prepared to cross, to compromise my integrity.


I have lost/left jobs to keep my line in the sand and integrity intact.


Every woman sets her own standards.

I've been in teaching positions and managerial positions. I've seen how low some people will go to get attention, stand out from the crowd, go the extra mile to get a leg up. I understand that a little flirting can get a woman far up the totem pole...and how attactiveness will more times than not, supersede talent. And when a woman has to compete with mostly men...i imagine it's even harder to fine the super thin line of standing out and being looked at like an office tramp. The simple perception that a woman is using the wrong talents to get ahead can destroy her chances at meaningful career. I absolutely get that.

I have never been seduced by students or subordinates...but they're efforts don't go unnoticed. I have seen what happens to people who succumb to the weakness and put their livelihood, families and careers on the line for a little thrill. Unfortunately it's far to common in today's society.

Saturday morning we're going to sit down and go over some things. She's going to fill me in on the equal opportunity/sexual harassment complaint she's submitting, so hopefully I'll get a better sense of the truth to that claim. And I have more questions...one of which is going to be..."where was her line in the sand...how far would she have taken this", among many other questions.

Thank you for your honest feedback.

a reply to: tetra50

He probably sent her the porn because she was constantly rebuffing his advances....

You got it wrong. SHE sent the porn video to her boss.

a reply to: eletheia

An attractive woman learns how to use a males stupidity to survive in a male orientated work place by using his egocentric immaturity against himself!

Nope. She's banging the boss. Simple as that.