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posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: Toolman18


There's no chance. Easy as that. No matter what you, your neighbor, or myself think, we cannot win. Even posting on this site means you can't win.


Then what are you doing to confront that problem. I don't think just accepting it is a valid option.



If people are wanting to vote, then I encourage it. Maybe something will happen to change my mind.


So there is a chance for the people to take back control in your mind. Opposed to what you said in the first paragraph.



This country needs leaders with integrity. The current leaders of the world do not even know what
Integrity means


I believe you could find corruption in every corner of government but I don't believe every one of them is corrupt. We are voting on a local/state/federal level. Not on a world level...yet.


Satan will never allow good people to have any real power. Our only fight is against corruption and evil. I believe this down to my soul. Good luck people of earth. The downward spiral is well established


No room for grey area?




posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 10:58 PM
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So how does your one vote change the course of the nation? It doesn't. We have already justified complete control of our lives. No more gold standard. FIAT money system. Whistle blowers get life sentences. But greed prevails. Who cares about injustice when there is so much money to be made.

Our votes do not change any of that. I would like to be wrong but I'm not. Money, corruption and self interest rules this planet. No room for honesty, integrity and being content ith what you have



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:04 PM
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a reply to: Toolman18

I wanted to address this in my OP but lost the words:

So how does your one vote change the course of the nation?


It doesn't. Really your right. Your attitude does however. Out of curiosity how many votes could be lost (no matter whom) to your statement. Then how many would those effect and so on and so on.

See, we as Americans still have that in common. America is (supposedly) of the people, for the people and by the people. Us, the people need to actually take the reigns, or take them back in this day in age.

We as a people speak louder than any individual person. We as a people are sick of the options before us (the majority anyway) and need to take steps to change the scenario.

IMO if you are deciding to not vote at all, at least a 3rd party vote would go toward changing the 2020 election paradigm.



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

I agree with most of what you say. But voting will never save this sinking ship. The people of this country need to make a stand. But no one will because it's much easier to accept the things that are wrong than to get back on track as a society.



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:24 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

3 things come to mind after reading your OP.

1. Preach on, brother!

2. This paragraph was perfect:


I've seen quite a bit of conversation of folks not wanting to vote at all. What does this prove? What is this standing (sitting) against? Your disapproval of the two party system or maybe you think the whole thing a charade? My opinion would leave me to believe that if your going to attempt to rebel against the system it would be a secure third party vote or a vote for the future so to speak.

Refusing to vote proves nothing. All it does is guarantee that actual policy makers will have one less demographic to worry about. It's like people don't realize that political insiders, their cronies, and the wealthy will always vote, donate money to candidates & parties, help write bills, and run for office. They just don't want us to do those things because those things actually get results when done together.

3. I've concluded that the people who claim they don't or won't vote are lying. I think they're still going to vote, but they're hoping to dissuade others from voting and getting involved in the system. That way, it will keep us from nullifying their own votes, as well as allowing them to keep the system to themselves.

It's kind of like the people who claim something is so bad that you should never try it. But when you try it, you realize it's actually pretty good and they simply didn't want to share any of it w/you. It's just another form of manipulation, hoping others will jump on their non-voting bandwagon.

edit on 26-10-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:30 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

You've more faith in people than I do I'm afraid. I think those that are choosing and saying that they don't want to vote truly intend on not voting. They feel like no option is good so they opt out. I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain why they think a no vote changes anything.

I could be wrong, maybe we should put it to a vote!


I agree that they want us to be silent. They want us to stay home knowing full well that those they count on voting will vote for whom they've said they would. The establishment hates surprises!! They want those polls to be accurate (so they can possibly manipulate them?), they want their next chess move to be made with assurance and a populace that is unruly will simply not do.



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:38 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Encryptor






"I didn't exhale." -President Blow




lmfao!!!



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:39 PM
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Need.. Another
... Brownie....



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:41 PM
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a reply to: Toolman18

I won't give up.www.youtube.com... YOU seem to have done so....



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:46 PM
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Voted this afternoon. Waited in line about 15 minutes. Done!



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:50 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
Lots of discussion over the past months. Who we're for or who we're against and platitudes of statements...some not so much. Whomever you decide to give your vote to honestly does not concern me nor should mine concern you. The debates, arguments and discussions are fun and generally informative. Vote for who you would, even if it takes a few hours.

I've seen quite a bit of conversation of folks not wanting to vote at all. What does this prove? What is this standing (sitting) against? Your disapproval of the two party system or maybe you think the whole thing a charade? My opinion would leave me to believe that if your going to attempt to rebel against the system it would be a secure third party vote or a vote for the future so to speak.

We as Americans need to take back our power over Government. There is more than just the Presidency at stake and to me I would think that not voting at all is a contribution to the apathy that has us in the situation we are in.

Whether it be Trump or Drumf or Hillary or Shillary or Stein or Johnson or Joe Blow, I would urge you to vote!

If you are not voting at all, would you please elaborate as to why?


Here’s what possible fellow pedophile Trump had to say about Epstein, in 2002:

I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it, Jeffrey enjoys his social life.


www.buzzfeed.com...

www.dailywire.com...


www.bluedotdaily.com...

exerpt of a sworn testimony

On the fourth incident, she says Mr. Trump tied her to a bed and forcibly raped her, in a “savage sexual attack,” while she pleaded with him to stop. She says Mr. Trump violently struck her in the face. She says that afterward, if she ever revealed what he had done, Mr. Trump threatened that she and her family would be “physically harmed if not killed.” She says she has been in fear of him ever since.


In another deposition, Epstein’s brother Mark testified he once flew on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane with both him and Trump, who were “friends.” Asked why Trump was on board, Mark Epstein replied, “You’ll have to ask Donald."

www.documentcloud.org...



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:51 PM
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a reply to: bluerabbit7788

Yea, you've pasted this on about 10 threads now. Have anything to the topic?



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: JinMI
Sure, I'd be happy to elaborate. Yeah, I think it's a charade. In election years, you can track the agendas with the crimes reported to support certain agendas. I truly believe the military industrial complex, or even some other unnamable, unknowable entity, has all that planned out long before that election takes place, and those candidates are nominated.

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely detest being that cynical. I used to be a patriot in the very best sense of the word. But why are our veterans amongst the highest homeless and illness statistics in our society? What's up with the suicide rate amongst active and retired military?


It doesn't seem to matter who holds that office, the same things happen over and over....
Why should I vote for a representative in a representative republic that has never, ever represented my personal interests in any way shape or form? Voting, to me, has just become another way of identifying your belief system in order to sell you more stuff, make more money off you, or manipulate you in all those attendant ways. Cause that's all that seems to matter anymore: who has the most money and the most toys.
regards,
tetra



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

Here's why I see it a bit different. I was born and raised in the South. My grandparents couldn't vote until they were old because my people literally weren't allowed to. They also couldn't serve on a jury against a "white" American or run for office. This was during the forced Racial Segregation period which lasted until the mid 1960s.

Both of my parents and their siblings were raised during the Civil Rights Movement, with my Mom and her sisters telling us the stories of how their Mom would take them to the polls when she was finally able to vote. There were always crowds yelling at them, spitting on them, and intimidating them the entire time, doing everything they could to dissuade their Mom from voting. But I can virtually guarantee those crowds voted.

Both of my parents had similar tales from when they met in college, being among the small group of African Americans allowed into that historically "white" university. Police were there to simultaneously stop their Civil Rights protests & prevent the local Klan from instigating violence against them. The entire time, local and state govts and their constituents were doing everything possible to suppress my parents' generations' votes (this was after the "Southern Strategy" had been implemented). But I can virtually guarantee those people voted.

And even now, I see how screwed up my local and State politics are. I won't name the specific State I'm in, but there are only maybe 5 or 6 counties that have large minority populations. We're a deeply Republican State and people here will do nearly anything to keep it that way. They intentionally reduce the amount of polling places in minority districts, and then call elections before those districts have completely voted (among other things).

That brings me to my initial point. For all the talk about not voting, it's funny how the anti-progressive measures always get overwhelmingly voted down out here. People claim they're not voting, especially not for this or that "corrupt" politician, but that candidate always mysteriously gets voted in with huge majorities. Even when my Dad & his associates are either building a mosque or helping other groups build a mosque, the county sponsored hearings are always packed with people who claimed they weren't voting or participating in the system.

So in short, talk is cheap (not your talk, theirs). I like to judge these types of things by results and the results out here are pretty obvious. Anytime there's a "threat" on the ballot, they always show up to vote whether they admit it or not. But they just don't want the rest of us to vote because it would nullify their own power. Otherwise, there would be no need for all of their voter suppression tactics (as in, why work so hard to suppress the vote in a system that you don't care about?).



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 12:00 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant
How right you are. The drawing of districts, the electoral college superseding the public vote, all add up to a big 0. In the end, it doesn't seem to matter much whom you vote for. Unfortunately, it's the same crap, different day. But you elucidated it quite well, and I thank you for that.
tetra



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: tetra50

First, thank you for a well thought out reply.

So you feel that your vote as part of the whole has no value. Do you believe it to be from not being counted or the whole not being counted? Even if there is a grand show taking place and we all see it, does that mean that voting is as well?
Do you also feel this way about your local/state elections?

I can't argue with the marketability of someone knowing your voting angle. Surely you see that there is a greater chance in your vote not counting if you don't vote compared to suspicion that your vote doesn't count.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Given your families history and your experiences I can see how you came to that conclusion. In my area and among the people I've seen as not voting they share the same outlook on the government as the folks here in this thread. Doom and gloom. No way up or out so why bother or try. That's what I'm seeing around me and why I was curious as to the thoughts of it on ATS.

You bring up a very valid point and that is that generations of Americans have put quite a lot on the line to have their vote cast and count. Around the world the stakes are higher.

I have a cynical side as well. Could the votes be rigged? Could it all be a dog and pony show and it's already been decided? Sure, it could, but watching the various polls and world wide interests has me leaning more in the direction that it's best guess at this point.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 12:11 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: tetra50

First, thank you for a well thought out reply.

So you feel that your vote as part of the whole has no value. Do you believe it to be from not being counted or the whole not being counted? Even if there is a grand show taking place and we all see it, does that mean that voting is as well?
Do you also feel this way about your local/state elections?

I can't argue with the marketability of someone knowing your voting angle. Surely you see that there is a greater chance in your vote not counting if you don't vote compared to suspicion that your vote doesn't count.


Thank YOU, JimJI, for treating my reply so delicately. I realize my feelings about this topic are not particularly popular. There's that justified sentiment if you aren't voting, you shouldn't be a bitching about it, either.

The truth is , for me, my vote doesn't count. Because I could vote any way, all day long, but if the electoral college votes differently with their appointed, chosen delegates, my vote would be negated, anyhow. And that's just the start of what I'm saying.

It's pure theater, at this point. A distraction, an inculcation angle to make us feel we have some power and responsibility over our existence. If things don't go well for you, maybe it was because you made the wrong voting choices, for example. That's just the cynical way I see things, these days.

I believe in a control loop system. I've lived long enough, experienced enough, that I can no longer deny it. And please understand, I used to be the one in the intellectual party atmosphere debating that life was random, and there wasn't, in fact, a reason for anything......

Because of my age and certain personal events in my life, I think it's been shoved down my throat that it's indeed not random at all. I rarely reply or participate in political threads, so it's unusual that I would show up here and say anything at all, such is the depth of my dismissal of this as anything that truly matters.

Nevertheless, I care more than I can express for all people, what they struggle through and for, the sacrifices they make for what they believe in, against all odds that they can prevail within current paradigmic, cognitive dissonant circumstances far beyond their control, while everyday, it's shoved down their throats that their lot in life is entirely their personal responsibility, when it probably really isn't at all....because whatever they think, vote for, sacrifice for or believe in, doesn't really matter....

I wish I believed differently. It would make life a whole lot easier. But that's it, in a nutshell, and along those lines, don't take me too seriously, as I'm that nut in that shell....LOL
Good vibes to you, my friend.
tetra



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 12:18 AM
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a reply to: tetra50




“The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.” -Albert Einstein


I asked the question hoping to get a response(s) like yours. Your stance is backed up by reasoning that's not difficult to identify with. So, my question is, does it make sense to you, feeling strongly that your vote will not make a difference, to at the very least put a vote in for a third party as at least a middle finger to the system your sure works against you.

I've got to believe that on some level the votes count. I've not see enough evidence to the contrary. Some part of the system must still work.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 12:31 AM
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I can't wait to Vote for Trump,

The Day of Reckoning!

edit on 27-10-2016 by Encryptor because: (no reason given)




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