I'm voting Trump because I care about women

a reply to: Advantage

My Grandpa and a bunch of others from Wind River went and heckled her. I never thought that man would leave WY, but they went to Denver just to shout her down. It worked. LOL.

originally posted by: Advantage
Erm, stop being so damned sensitive.. this is a message board. No one was bashing you, trust me.

Well, you took my benign comment and tried to turn into something you could condescend me about. Most would take offence to that kind of misrepresentation and attitude.

This is a forum, where discussions are held. Discussions require logic and reasoning so when people make comments that are illogical and unreasonable, I call them out. I wish more people on here did that, but then again, I just wish more people on here were logical and reasonable to begin with.

Anyway, if you wish to contribute to the thread I would be more than happy to discuss the topic with you.

a reply to: scojak

"Any and all of her failures will be nationally known, so if she does not do a sparkling job with the presidency, there will be a skyrocket in stereotypes that say woman are unfit for official positions. "

Alrighty, this is too rich, will try to contain myself. The President of the United States represents all americans. So, when Bush crashed the economy, does that mean just men were to blame? You have really shown the mind of Trump and his supporters about women with that statement. Keep talking til Nov 8.

a reply to: scojak

let's say he did grope every one of those women who recently have come forward, is he really that bad of a guy?

Okay, let's say he did.

So this depends on if you think sexual assault is really bad or not, right? Of course it is. Of course he is.

As for Hillary ultimately being a giant set back for future female presidents. Isn't that making a hell of a lot of assumptions about her presidential run since it hasn't even started?

originally posted by: scojak
Absolutely. It shouldn't exist for men or woman. But it does, and it really should be taken into consideration in regard to this election and how it will likely hinder women more than help them.

What needs to be taken into consideration is the fact that such an idea is BS in the first place and needs to be disregarded as meaningful. We both agree that it's a false concept. A failed idea built upon some double standard that has been ingrained in our culture and has no credibility to it.

If Hillary fails it's because she failed and nothing more. It has nothing to do about being a woman. It doesn't reflect upon women in general at all. Never once has anyone ever suggested that because some other president screwed something up that it was because he was a man and that it should reflect upon other men. So to entertain such an idea being used against women because of Hillary is nothing more than continuing that same line of incorrect thinking.

I've seen the same kind of thinking being used with Obama too and it's just as bad. Only with him it's because he's Black. So his failures are said to reflect against other Blacks which is false. Obama's failures have nothing to do with him being black any more than they have to do with him being Male. They belong to him alone and don't mean anything at all in regards to Black People, just like it means nothing at all toward all other Males either.

That kind of thinking needs to be thrown out like the garbage that it is.

a reply to: mOjOm

The fact that it's taken this long for a woman to seen as capable of holding the highest office is a disgrace

Truly is. Hell, even ancient Egypt had female rulers. My mother was reminding me earlier today that women in the USA couldn't even serve on a jury in every state until the 70s O_o

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

It's pretty embarrassing actually too. Here we are supposed to be this great Nation of advanced thinking built from Enlightened thinkers. The shinning light on the hill and all that BS and some people are still trying to push ideas like this.

It's ancient knuckle dragging superiority BS that has no basis in reality. It has been forced and nurtured within our culture through Oppressive Religious Lies about women being mandated by God to serve Men and being blamed as the cause of original sin just to name one example. Regardless of how many times and how many ways that concept is proven false there are some that simply refuse to accept it though and continue to push it within our culture.

You'd think the hypocrisy of it all would be enough to shake sense into people. Like how we condemn some Middle Eastern and Eastern cultures for how they subjugate their own women and here we are using that same mentality and doing it ourselves. It's reeks of insecurity and a false sense of superiority by weak little men who are scared of the opposite sex so they use a false set of ideas to force dominion over them to try and make themselves look strong. But to anyone with any bit of reason at all it's clear that it's not coming from a position of strength but a position of fear and weakness.

a reply to: scojak

I think it's bad for feminism as the message is "Stay with your man and you can achieve anything".

I'm not sure if what she "may" do and how people "may" react can really be held against her however.

originally posted by: mOjOm
If anything she is THE most qualified WOMAN to run for President. That doesn't mean she's the best possible Representative of Women, nor is she the best choice for President. However, currently, as in right now at this time, there isn't any other woman I can think of who has the experience of being a politician and knowing how to fight within that arena.

I have a very over active imagination!!

So every time I see Hillary ... I can't help see Bill's hand up her back moving her

mouth and limbs!

I really believe its Bills third crack at the white house.(first time in history?) He

is managing to do it through Hillary.

But looking strictly at the question of "Who is the most experienced Woman right now with the Male Dominated arena of Politics??" It would have to be Hillary.

She doesn't need to be qualified experienced or know how to fight ...Bill's hand

is on the tiller

If for no other reason than I can't even think of any other woman who's been as involved as her anywhere in politics.

In 4/8 years time I bet Michelle Obama gets wheeled out!

Hillary's already been fighting this battle for years. To get where she's at now has taken her more work and more sneaky double dealing, back stabbing and double crossing

Yes .... Its got to the point (in the manner of El Cid) where she is medicated,

made up, strapped onto her horse and sent out to lead the government and

country.

I'm voting Hitler because I care about Jews.

originally posted by: MOMof3
The President of the United States represents all americans.

I absolutely agree

So, when Bush crashed the economy, does that mean just men were to blame?

No, when I said, "no matter how bad he (Trump) is, he will not taint anything for the American male populous" I was saying exactly this. It shouldn't put blame on anyone except the President.

However, Hillary will be held to a different standard. She is a woman, and if you don't think Americans will view her and judge her differently because of that, then you live in a fantasy world. In the real world, sexism and stereotypes are real and run rampant, and many Americans will have their views enforced by any failures of Hillary.

You have really shown the mind of Trump and his supporters about women with that statement. Keep talking til Nov 8.

This thread is about women equality in the long-term. Unfortunately, most Americans are focused on the short-term. The short-term (getting her elected) gets women equality a small boost. But I'm looking at the long-term, the next four years. In becoming President, she would be taking over a lot of failing systems and she will be expected to fix them. She is set up to fail. And since she would be President, the highest possible position, her actions will become the standards for stereotypes against women.

So thank you, I hope Trump supporters have minds like mine because it shows they actually look at the future, the long-term effects instead of what's dangling in front of them now.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
So this depends on if you think sexual assault is really bad or not, right? Of course it is. Of course he is.

Ugh, this was a tactic to show that it doesn't matter if he is good or bad guy or president, her will not taint the perception of men in our society.

As for Hillary ultimately being a giant set back for future female presidents. Isn't that making a hell of a lot of assumptions about her presidential run since it hasn't even started?

Have you seen her campaign? Have you seen the mess that Obama has left her to deal with? She is set up to fail and I would expect any nominee to have a lot of problems moving forward. Yes, she may in fact rise to the challenge, but the cards are stacked against her.

originally posted by: mOjOm
What needs to be taken into consideration is the fact that such an idea is BS in the first place and needs to be disregarded as meaningful. We both agree that it's a false concept. A failed idea built upon some double standard that has been ingrained in our culture and has no credibility to it.

I agree, but you and I disregarding it doesn't make it go away. It will always be a part of our society as it is now. Since it is part of are society, it becomes a variable that needs to be considered.

If Hillary fails it's because she failed and nothing more. It has nothing to do about being a woman. It doesn't reflect upon women in general at all. Never once has anyone ever suggested that because some other president screwed something up that it was because he was a man and that it should reflect upon other men.

Yep. I've said I agree with this thinking a few times now.

So to entertain such an idea being used against women because of Hillary is nothing more than continuing that same line of incorrect thinking.

It's actually a lot more that that. Refer to my first response a few lines up. Ignoring it does not make it go away. It will still have an impact.

I've seen the same kind of thinking being used with Obama too and it's just as bad. Only with him it's because he's Black. So his failures are said to reflect against other Blacks which is false. Obama's failures have nothing to do with him being black any more than they have to do with him being Male. They belong to him alone and don't mean anything at all in regards to Black People, just like it means nothing at all toward all other Males either.

Again, I agree. It shouldn't, but it does. Do you really think racism doesn't exist in America? It absolutely does. And the effects, no matter how much you don't like them, are still there.

That kind of thinking needs to be thrown out like the garbage that it is.

Agreed, but it's far from being that easy.

a reply to: scojak

but you are not considering just how far back trump could take women's rights back, with the help of his ultra conservative religious right fanatic as a vp and the republican backing...
like you said, the sexism and stereotypes are real and run rampant. you don't have to tell women that, they know it, they've encountered it, they had their lived made more difficult because of it. they've fought it, our foremothers had eggs thrown at them at they marched to the polling place, they were thrown in jail for trying to vote and trying to teach other women how to avoid pregnancy. for people to just say that even if trump did sexually assault women, it's not that big a deal, or worse, to invoke god's name to convince women to support him, is kind of offensive! and don't go pointing your fingers at poor ole bill! haven't you notice how defeated and brow beaten poor ole bill looks? he's paid his price for his indiscretions while some seem to be saying that they want to reward trump for his when they say things like so what if he did these things, it's nothing!!!

a reply to: dawnstar

well, god must be shaking his head in disbelief! 

God started shaking his head in disbelief when the church across the street from me started advertising "come for the Pokemon, stay for the word!" if not way before that.

To the OP, neither of these candidates represent anyone in the right kind of way. But I agree that Hillary is most definitely the wrong woman to be the first woman president. Or, maybe she's the perfect. She shows that women are in fact equal to men in the way that they can make just as many terrible decisions. Gender doesn't matter. Women wanted equality to prove they can do anything a man can, right? Well...

a reply to: scojak

Same can be said about blacks and Obama. After Obama, a lot of people wont want a black man in office again. With Hillary, not many will want a Woman in office again either. The Libs/Dems are shooting their entire wads with these two candidates and spoiling perceptions going forward.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: scojak

but you are not considering just how far back trump could take women's rights back, with the help of his ultra conservative religious right fanatic as a vp and the republican backing...
like you said, the sexism and stereotypes are real and run rampant. you don't have to tell women that, they know it, they've encountered it, they had their lived made more difficult because of it. they've fought it, our foremothers had eggs thrown at them at they marched to the polling place, they were thrown in jail for trying to vote and trying to teach other women how to avoid pregnancy. for people to just say that even if trump did sexually assault women, it's not that big a deal, or worse, to invoke god's name to convince women to support him, is kind of offensive! and don't go pointing your fingers at poor ole bill! haven't you notice how defeated and brow beaten poor ole bill looks? he's paid his price for his indiscretions while some seem to be saying that they want to reward trump for his when they say things like so what if he did these things, it's nothing!!!

Finally!

I really appreciate your comment. I'm actually not voting for Trump for the reasons in this thread, but I think it is still an important point to be considered and I wanted to bring it to attention.

People think getting Hillary elected is all that matters to make a change, but her actions over the next four years will make waves for stereotypes of women, both positive and negative. It's a subtlety that I think most are overlooking. They see what's in front of them and realize how her presidency could extremely benefit the way women are looked at in America, but they don't look at both sides of the coin. If she struggles to fix things, stereotypes will strengthen that women aren't fit for positions in power. And with the current state of our country, it's going to be a tough road for her.

I really just wanted to make a point that while her getting elected could be great for women, it could also completely backfire, and women should be prepared for that to happen. A vote for Hillary should not be because you want to see a woman president, but because you believe she is the best candidate and will improve our country.

So to respond to you comment, I agree, Trump will be terrible for women's rights, but given the campaign he's run, I would hope people already know that.

a reply to: dawnstar

Do you really think sexism will ever stop? The stereotype of the poor ole man broken by his wife that you put forward isn't exactly progressive. But your free to have your thoughts even if they are sexist.

Your foremothers won and the western world is a much better place for it.
If you want to continue the fight now look at your sisters in the middle east.

Think of all the awful things said about Hillary just on here. Can you see anyone saying she shouldn't get the job because women can't do the job? The feminist movement won, there's absolutely no risk of it turning back and the very thought is an insult to those foremothers you speak of.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
I didn't say that poor ole bill was broken solely by hillary, did I?? what I said was he paid the price already. he's been humiliated on nationwide tv, gone through investigations, had every sordid detail aired on national tv, and, now he gets to watch his wife get insulted, demeaned, accused because of actions he did years ago... by a bunch of people who seem to be saying that they don't care if what is being said about trump is true or not, he should get a free pass....

no risk of it being turned back huh??? obviously you chose to be blind to the constant assault on women's reproductive rights (not just talking about abortion here) and just how much of an influence women having the power to chose when and how many kids they have has had on their advancement.

as far as my sisters in the middle east.... tell me, just how did polluting the land that they are living on with our depleted uranium ammunition help them??? now instead of having to care for the kids they have till they are adults, they are giving birth to children who are gonna need their care all their lives!!!

Unlike the dems here, I'm voting Trump because I care about the United States. IT/WE need help, and Hitlary is not going to get it done. She never has and she never will.