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Originally posted by Valhall
Sorry, but that's not what it says. You can thank good ol' King James for that mistranslation.
Thou shalt not murder. < ==== In this particular instance, semantics result in a heapin' helpin' of difference.
And for the sake of logic, let's see how this could play out. Murder being the taking of another human's life based solely on anger, passion, without true cause. Where as - if God told you to - it aint murder...it's a killin'.
**
Originally posted by drfunk
That has to be the most evil thing i've heard in a long time I'll agree that the King James Translations resulted in kill, but what it means is that you shall not kill another human being unless it's for self defence. Murder is killing someone with an intent to kill previously before committing the act, if a god was to tell you to murder (which I don't believe and a lot of the old testament is crap that we don't follow and untrue) it would still be murder and a violation of our father's commandments and it would be a sin. You can't just justify murder like that, as I said that is incredibly evil and I am shocked you would say that.
thanks,
drfunk
Originally posted by Valhall
Originally posted by USER
I have to agree with DRFUNK.
THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
It doesn't say "thou shalt not kill unless it's someone of another religion"...
It just says "Thou shalt not kill".
Sorry, but that's not what it says. You can thank good ol' King James for that mistranslation.
Thou shalt not murder. < ==== In this particular instance, semantics result in a heapin' helpin' of difference.
And for the sake of logic, let's see how this could play out. Murder being the taking of another human's life based solely on anger, passion, without true cause. Where as - if God told you to - it aint murder...it's a killin'.
**
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Then you retract your earlier statement that God will find forgiveness. If you can acknowledge that you are wrong, you do so knowing in your heart that God does not want you to kill for any reason. But more than that, you do so knowing that within your very soul lies a non-describable force that tells you it is wrong. Is that no so?
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Therein lies the big issue between believing and hoping, faith and understanding....The missing parameter is the realization of: what if I haven’t thought this through properly?
Originally posted by USERIf you want to start splitting hairs, the whole bloody Bible has been changed to suit the Church and let's face it, religion is a great tool for governments to get people to comply.
Originally posted by USER
If you want to start splitting hairs, the whole bloody Bible has been changed to suit the Church and let's face it, religion is a great tool for governments to get people to comply. MURDER or KILL it's all the same. If you can do it and hold your head up high and walk down the street with no shame.....
well, quite frankly you need to read beyond the words.
[edit on 25-1-2005 by USER]
Originally posted by edsinger
So how do you explain the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Book of Isaiah for one? Enoch? Do I need to go on?
Originally posted by Amuk
Originally posted by edsinger
So how do you explain the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Book of Isaiah for one? Enoch? Do I need to go on?
Some of these are the very ones that call for the killing of unbelievers so how, in at least an OT respect, does it make you any different that the Muslims calling for Jihad?
Originally posted by edsinger
Yes it does.
Originally posted by Amuk
Is it OK to kill men women and Childern of unbelievers if it is done for the "right" God?
Originally posted by DrHoracid
As difficult as it is to understand, YES, we should do as "GOD" says. He is the "GOD" of Abraham. All other gods flow from Satan the great deceiver. Satan is confusion.
“tradition that the Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael ... only reminds us that Jews and Arabs have a common ... .”
Touche! They absolutely do, it has been planted there, just as the genetic code has been, and any excuse to do otherwise is just that…an excuse!
Nukunuku- Everybody knows it in their hearts,
I was awaiting this. Thou shalt not murder! And what defines murder? Is it the laws listed within Leviticus as decreed by God? Why yes it is. But is it where God promises to give to Abraham’s descendents all the land as far as his eyes can see, and so determine that in fact, he is not giving anything, where Moses has to enlist young men into the military, kill and be killed in order for God to ‘give” them this land? No! Gen. 12:7 & Nu.1:3. Let us not seek to find foggy bottom here and blend biblical self-importance and delusion with fact, for if God’s intention was to give, he would give, and if there was killing intended, he showed quite well that he controls the environment where a pillar of fire was but a mere thought, and where Moses needed lift only his arm and rod to part a sea.
Valhall- Thou shalt not murder.
Paul contradicted himself on the role of women.
- Valhall- The Pauline principles whether followed or not - have nothing to do with what a "sin" is. If a woman stands up and preaches, she is not sinning...she's just not following Paul's preferences.
followed by
Romans 16:1 – I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is servant of the church which is at Cenchrea…and that ye assist her (the church) in whatsoever business she hath need of you:…
There is no confusion here as to whom he addresses in Romans, unless it is the equivalent of a Biblical a boy named Sue, and to which sex Sue happens to be that he later subjugates.
Co14:34:35...for they are commanded to be under obedience…if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands for it is a shame for women to speak in the church
I think I’m missing your point here, the reason I would seek forgiveness in this case is because I knowingly committed an act that was against God’s will. I don’t see where I have missed anything. My question to you was clear I thought, in how would you feel knowing that you took the life of an innocent in your quest for vengeance, as you claimed: “I believe that you will be forgiven for your actions.” and how then, would you respond to the direct and irrefutable by God himself that he told you not to kill.
Originally posted by para
And I say once more, you seek forgiveness because you were wrong. There is no need to seek forgiveness if you know you are correct. Therefore, you either hope to deceive him with your invocation, or you acknowledge you were wrong. And did I not state this?
I think I’m missing your point here, the reason I would seek forgiveness in this case is because I knowingly committed an act that was against God’s will.
I agree, we do not. Nor do we look at animals as our intelligent equal, or as having a God. So this is irrelevant.
Animals in nature kill each other as a matter of survival, and we do not look at them as evil.
I already supplied what I believe is the answer to that, you quoted it, yet did not notice it:
And left with multiple religions all with different ways of getting to eternity, each claiming that they are the only way, how can I find a concrete answer?
But more than that, you do so knowing that within your very soul lies a non-describable force that tells you it is wrong. Is that no so?
My questions in the grand scheme of things, are just questions of someone who like you, will die.
Anyway, I hope this answers your questions.
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
In retrospect I see you actually provided an open-ended answer, such that it was: “the choice seems obvious.” Where, to me the obvious is that when faced with the lawmaker and his direct statement, there is no excuse.
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
And I say once more, you seek forgiveness because you were wrong. There is no need to seek forgiveness if you know you are correct. Therefore, you either hope to deceive him with your invocation, or you acknowledge you were wrong. And did I not state this?
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Nor do we look at animals as our intelligent equal, or as having a God. So this is irrelevant.
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
quote: But more than that, you do so knowing that within your very soul lies a non-describable force that tells you it is wrong. Is that no so?
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
My questions in the grand scheme of things, are just questions of someone who like you, will die.