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Is it OK to murder in the name of God?

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posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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Firstly.. MURDER is unjustified killing. If we kill for a just reason such as to save a woman from being raped, then it is merely 'killing'...i got more scriptures which can be applied to modern day society, especially since we are racing toward a new world order....well its already here....just not as open as it wants.......yet.

Anyways if God (Jesus)says it in the Bible (his word), then we should obey it as that what Christians are supposed to do....follow his commands and his word(the bible).....God isnt unjust...he knows what hes doing...just because it may SEEM ujust to us doesnt mean it is...we have aan incredibly puny mind...w can never begin to contemplate the complexity of Gods reasons. But here are the scriptures i have compiled to help my Fellow Christians in difficult situations.....and to help them with probably one of the top 5 most dificult situations a Christian has hard times dealing with because they ge ttold so much we should be pacifists by the very enemy who wants to enslave us via the new world order....for easy takeover. Im sidetracking again, sorry about that...see my website on my profile for more info on what im ravin on about .......but here is my piece;

Gods followers (Abraham, Joshua, Gideon, Samson etc) have been involved in Wars/fighting, political and military life throughout history. The fact that Jesus NEVER told his disciples that they could no longer be involved in these areas is again proof he approved of such things. After all God in the Old Testament was the very same God they were following in the New Testament except God this time came in Human form as JESUS just as prophecied!!(John chapter 1) God doesnt change, his word stands FOREVER meaning the Old Testament applies as much today as it did in the past.

Genesis 14: 14-20;

Here Abrahams brothers son Lot and others were abducted by the Kings of Sodom and Gomorrah along with their possessions and so Abraham raised a small army of just 318 men and crushed the enemy forces despite being outnumbered as God was on their Side. Afterwards God blesses them through his priest Melchizedek who brings bread and wine to celebrate the victory.

Exodus 2: 11,12

Moses spots a Slavemaster beating a fellow Hebrew and slays him to protect his brother from Tyranny.This is again refered to later on in the New Testament, Book of Acts, chapter 7, verses 22-25

Exodus 15: 3

Exodus 21: 22-25

2 men are fighting and a woman who is pregnant is at the scene, and as a result of their fighting, she gets hurt in the process and her baby dies. If this happens God says that we should kill those guilty....life for life. This applies today to Abortionists for they murder millions every year and so their death would be very much justified by the Lord Jesus.

Exodus 22: 2

Ok to kill an intruder in your home at night.

Exodus 22: 18

Exodus 22: 20

Anyone who worships any God except Jesus shall be put to death

Exodus 23: 7

Clearly defining that it is ok to kill in some situations such as the guilty and evil, but NOT if the victim is innocent or righteous.

Leviticus 20: 10, 11

Leviticus 20: 13

Clearly talking about homosexuals

Leviticus 20: 14

Leviticus 20: 15,16

Numbers 10: 9

Numbers 25: 3-13

Here we have a case of idolatory where certain people of Israel have strayed from following our Lord Jesus and began to folow BAAL aka the SUN god of SUNday whch is Nimrod. As a result God tells Moses to hang all those guilty up against the SUN to show them their God is fake and will consume them even though they were worshipping it. Also another demonstration of just force is when Phinehas kills 2 of the Idolators with his Javelin and GOD BLESSES HIM FOR IT

1 Samuel 10: 18

Here God is showing us he fights for those who wage war against Tyranny like when Moses freed the Israelites from the Tyranny of Pharaoh and killed thousands in the Red sea for trying to pursue them and send them back to slavery.

1 Samuel 15: 33

1 Kings 18: 40

More punishments for Idolators

2 Kings 1: 9, 10

King Ahaziah the enemy of Israel sends a company of 50 Soldiers to murder the prophet Elijah because Elijah was told by the Lord that the king would die and the King was afraid. God protects Elijah from the soldiers and sends fire down from Heaven to consume them.

2 Chronicles 20: 1-29

2 Chronicles 21: 3-8

Overthrowing Tyranny: Here we have Jehoram the new King of Israel. He is Evil in Gods eyes and sheds much innocent blood and so the people of Israel REVOLTED

Nehemiah 4: 14

A GREAT example of how we are instructed to FIGHT AND DEFEND our lives and our families lives from invading forces or indeed any physicall threat.

Psalm 18: 31-41

Psalm 82: 3, 4

A calling to ALL to free people who are being oppressed or who are subject to any cruelty whatsoever

Psalm 139: 19-24

Psalm 144: 1, 2

Proverbs 6: 16-19

Here God again singles out INNOCENT blood should NOT be spilt for it is an evil thing to destroy someone who does not deserve it.

Proverbs 20: 18

Proverbs 24: 11, 12

This scripture is telling Christians to protect people who are going to be murdered by the oppressors.

Jeremiah 48: 10

Telling us that whoever holds back from shedding the blood of EVIL will be cursed such as in the example of the particular scripture where Moab is being destroyed through 'looking the other way' when they should have punished the evil doers.

Luke 22: 36-38

Jesus tells his Disciples to buy Swords to make sure his ministry goes smoothly as he knew many people hated his teachings and would seek to murder him and his followers. He did not need protection as he was God, but he did this to show US that its ok to defend ourselves with FORCE if it calls for it.

John 2: 15

Jesus makes a WHIP and expels the thieves in God's temple, not to mention also turning over the tables. People at the scene would have a VERY VERY hard time believing Jesus was a pacifist after this act.

Acts 7: 22-25

This repeats the account which happened in the Old Testament as referenced earlier above. It is clearly justifying the killing Moses did as an act of 'avenging the oppressed'

Hebrews 11: 30-34

Obviously blessing and justifying the WARRIORS of old in how they had God on their side and were ALWAYS victorious in BATTLE....who said the New Testament NEVER mentions violence? This is one clear scripture that does aswell as the others i have mentioned above.....DO NOT LET THE VATICAN CONTROLLED NEW WORLD ORDER DECEIVE YOU INTO THINKING IT IS WRONG TO DEFEND YOURSELVES, YOUR LIVES AND THE PURSUIT of HAPPINESS




posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Soldier, you are another one of those fundamentalists I can see.

You mentioned a lot of killing that was justified in the bible. You forgot to mention several other instances. Like the whole "kill the woman for being raped because she is unpure" thing in deuteronomy. I love it when people intentionally leave stuff out of their arguments expecting everyone just to accept the nonsense that they spew out of their mouth without question. In other words christian literalists.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 07:43 PM
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Show me the scripture you are talking about sea...then ill discuss it with you...i am not aware of any scripture you speak of.....i only know that it says rapists should be executed



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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Personally, I gotta go with OTS's thoughts on this myself, but I'm gonna stick my 2 cents in as well...

The thing is that everyone is quoting the bible or the koran to get the answers for this...whatever happened to using your own head, or does God not act through people anymore, but only through books written by other people?

The OT is a bunch of stories passed down from more than a thousand years before Moses came out of Egypt...not that I'm belittling those legends, but it sure isn't factual history...most of it is myth, imo.
Sure, there are those who take everything in the books literally, and they're welcome to that opinion, but, I'm glad they're the minority.

The Idea that you can just go out and kill anyone who disagrees with your particular brand of religion is what makes this place hell on earth...it sucks!!!

In that line of thinking, I suppose anyone who starts a religion can then put a bunch of hateful messages in a pamphlet, say God inspired him to write it, and justify the slaughter of anyone who disagrees.

Anyone who does think that way was born too late...the inquisition and the crusades were the 'fun time' for Christianity and you missed out by about 800 years...bummer, eh?

Look at your neighbour...is he a Catholic? Should he die because you're Jewish or Protestant? Should we be running around stoning to death every kid that wears Goth clothing? It would be insane...not a world I'd like to live in.

Forget what the books say...do what your heart says, because that's where God is...not above that puffy cloud looking down hoping you'll follow the instructions of a 5,000 year old set of stories.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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Please dont confuse christianity with catholicism...they are 2 very different belief systems...catholic church is founded on pagan and babylonian rituals and customs. THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH waged the inquisition on PROTESTANTS...hence the reformation which followed.....to say Christians murdered millions in the inquisition is wrong my friend...it was the Satanist catholics who did such a thing. Look into the 'whore of babylon' and how and WHY the RC Church was founded (to destroy TRUE Christianity)...i got a few links for ya below...i dont agree with everything the animations say but 90% of it...the parts i dissagree with are just the preterist ideals that say the mark of the beast is the SUNday worship....i beleive it is a Microchip implant, but you can form your own opinion...here are some kool links...make a cup of coffee and sit back and enjoy;

www.remnantofgod.org...

www.remnantofgod.org...

This next one isnt animated but its an exceptional read;

www.jesus-is-lord.com...



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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The scripture, deuteronomy 22:23-24. In it it describes a woman being raped. If she doesn't cry loud enough she is to be stoned along with the rapist. In other words, if she is close to people, and doesnt make enough noise to get away...kill her. Forget all this nonsense that someone might restrain her voice, or scare her silent.


23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
If a woman is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, the men of the city must stone her to death.
Rape

24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you

Now if you continue just a little further, described is how a woman will be killed if she does not marry the captured rapist....providing she is not already married herself. Like wise, if the rapist captured, refuses to marry the victim, then he shall be killed. Quite lovely dont you think???


[edit on 1/24/2005 by Seapeople]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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I am not even going to bother to read this thread, but i will say this anyone who claims it is alright to kill in the name in god are religious fanatics who deserve to be locked up, and to rot in a cell for the rest of their lives for their pure ignorance.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by wang
I am not even going to bother to read this thread, but i will say this anyone who claims it is alright to kill in the name in god are religious fanatics who deserve to be locked up, and to rot in a cell for the rest of their lives for their pure ignorance.


Wang, you need to bust out your KJV 1611.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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Darn this deuteronomy stuff is getting better by the minute. If you continue to read deuteronomy even further, its gets better.


23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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This was the scripture i thought you might be referring to. It is simply saying that if she makes no argument at the point of capture, and she doesnt try to defend herself, then indeed she will be as guilty as the man.....its talking about if the sex is between 2 consenting adults....obviously if she denies this and says she was forced, she would need some proof or witnesses....Jesus says we should have 2 or 3 witneses if we are to use witnesses for any cause....if she didnt have these witnesses they would see the mans case and judge it for both like a common modern day rape case...evaluate the evidence or lack of it and decide from there...if there is not enough evidence, they would definately not be executed....someone could catch them in the act both enjoying it and therefore they would not be able to deny it then. ITs not mindless violence like so many tv shows/movies try to make the bible look...it just demands looking at scriptures with common sense and a knowledge of Gods charachter to form a educated decsision on what the scripture is saying...as sometimes the translations can get cloudy, but with experience of the bible and a good foundational knowledge, it is very easy to see whatis being said here.....to those who only want to see faults in the bible and christians, it is quite easy for them to do so, as they will only see what they want to to defend their own belief that there is no God or that he is unjust. God bless you



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:39 PM
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I just came across an incredibly logicall article....it explains why most men are not real christians anymore and why many men like to avoid church because of its namby pamby 'mr nice guy-no backbone-' persona and not enough of what God really designed males for....war and rescuing those who are oppressed. Iw dawned on me when i just read the article...that this is indeed true and althouhg i knew it all along, this article made me realise it much more clearly that Men arent being REAL men as the Bible wishes.here it is;

www.rense.com...



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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The old testament is kind of like that old dirty alcholoic pedofile uncle Tom you have that no one really wants to talk about, and when they do they talk about the good things completely ignoring the bad things. No one wants to talk about God commanding genocide, not even sparring children when this same God said that no man would be held accountable for the sins of their forefathers. Or about the time when God had a group of children mauled by 41 bears for making fun of a prophets bald head. I'm sure in the future these will probably be taken out, due to some "misunderstanding of mans ignorance" of some sort, leaving you with the roses and rainbows, and even more of a contradictory mess. At uncle Toms funeral, everyone will talk about how much of a great guy he was. Wishful thinking is all we have.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:47 PM
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You will only see that you wish to see Alec...God has good reason for everything....the things you mentioned were perfectly jusitifiable.....think deep and you will come up with atleast ONE answer as to how it can be justified. Also...just because you dont understand something....does that make it wrong?



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:52 PM
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I would say that it is alright for God to kill people, but not for people to kill in God’s name. Take for instance Noah and the Ark, God had no qualms about destroying nearly every living thing on the face of the earth, all of which he had created. God is justified because he created man and therefore is also given the power to destroy us.

Killing in God’s name is a different question. To me, the bible is contradictory on this matter, especially when it comes to the Old and New Testament. Ultimately, it is my belief that murder is wrong. However, I believe that we have a forgiving God who knows what our intent was when we acted. If you killed me because I broke into your house with a gun and tried to torture and kill you, I believe that you will be forgiven for your actions.

Killing for religious reasons does not seem justified to me. For one, it is my understanding that the God of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are one and the same. Where the three differ is on their take on who the "enlightened one" is (I’m not too educated on Islam and Judaism, so I’m using that for lack of a better term). Fighting each other over that issue seems pointless to me, as we will never reach a factual answer on the subject until, in the case of Christianity at least, Jesus returns to the earth. It is also my understanding that after he returns to the earth and casts Satan down, there will be one thousand years when those who have not had a reasonable chance to hear the teachings of Christ will be educated and at the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released again for a short time to test them, before he, Hell, and all the non-believers will destroyed forever. Obviously this is a Christian point of view, but you have to ask yourself what you are achieving by killing those of another faith, for that reason alone, if God intends to give them a second chance anyway.

That’s not to say that if someone attacks me in the name of Islam, Judaism, or the religion of your choice that I won’t retaliate. On the contrary, however, I only intend to attack those who have attacked me, and not the religion itself.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by soldier_of_the_lord
Please dont confuse christianity with catholicism...they are 2 very different belief systems...catholic church is founded on pagan and babylonian rituals and customs.
Tell me, do you believe these books to be the divine word of Jesus?

Acts: Romans: Corinthians 172: Ephesians: Phillipians: Colossians: Thessalonians 172: Timothe 1&2: Titus: Philemon: Hebrews?

Are they in your Bible? If so, how did they manage to find their placement in same, and not books such as The Gospel of Mary?



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:44 PM
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Ex priests during the reformation knew which books were put in the bible to mislead people and therefore knew which books to cut out. Also if we look at the apocrypha. it doesnt match up with the bible such as in 2nd book of Esdras in the apocrypha it says when we die we are as spirits who walk the earth until judgement day whereas the bible (old KJV of 1611) says we 'sleep' (we call it death) until judgement day.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:46 PM
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The Old Testament was a kinda of an "old story." The rules back then were different because Jesus had not yet risen from the grave (this is where modern Christianity starts), even today some people dont believe that JEsus has risen (the jews). In the Old Testament God commands the Israelites to commit "atrocious" acts against the women, children, and men of other tribes. God does this not because he has a prejudice, but because the other people are so wicked that God felt it was necessary to destroy thier culture so it would not pollute the Israelites. Every verse where God told the Israelites to kill people- God had said to kill all of the people of a "CERTAIN TRIBE" not all people across the globe forever. In conclusion the Old Testament is riddled full of different ideals than the New Testament, the New Testament is the "Final copy" , it's the new version that was show to Christians after Jesus was risen from the grave. His new life started what we know today as Christianity. To be a Christian it says you must "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" This shows that the old testament is incomplete and is alot different from the modern-day Christianity.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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"You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, 'You shall NOT kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.' But I say to you whoever is ANGRY with his brother will be liable to judgement, and whoever says to his brother, 'Raqa' will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, 'You fool,' will be liable to fiery Gehenna."

The Sanhedrin lacked the right to put a person to death.
"The Jews answered him, 'We do not have the right to execute anyone,'..."



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:58 PM
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Old T, New T both the same...apart from a few things that are not needed now such as sacrifices for sins, as jesus was the final sacrifice. Matthew 5: 17 explains this. All we need is a little patience and open mind to understand that there are no contradictions in the bible.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 11:11 PM
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"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden BEAM in your own eye?"







 
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