A hypothetical scenario for voter-fraud that matters.

With all the talk about voter-fraud, lately, the issues of proof and scope continue to be a stalling point in the debate. Some people, like me, suspect that voter fraud is probably far more rampant than evidenced thanks to carefully crafted election laws, including the Help America Vote Act (HAVA).

Because of the careful crafting of these laws, they could be exploited for the purposes of voter-fraud, and no evidence would be produced — there would be no red flags, no allegations, no investigations…no proof.

So, I acknowledge the evidence, as we have been shown, does not indicate voter fraud is a significant problem. However, using Florida’s election laws as a guide, I want to present a scenario where massive voter-fraud could take place, in Florida, and there would be no red flags nor evidence for us to consider. I chose Florida because it is a weighty swing state and a mere 537 votes, in Florida, decided the entire 2000 election. Even a small amount of voter fraud could have an impact in Florida.

Anyway, if you were a crooked politician and wanted to commit massive voter-fraud, in Florida, here’s a hypothetical method of how you might do it -- without raising any red flags -- by exploiting election/voter laws:

1. Assemble a team of participants in your mass voter-fraud scheme.

2. Assign each person the task of renting a P.O. Box (or multiple ones) and the task of completing X amount of fraudulent voter registrations & mail-in votes using the following method:

• Collect X amount of voter registration forms.

• Fill them out with made up, but believable, names. Also:

- Use a made up birth date that shows the voter is over 65. (Voters over 65, in Florida, do not have to show an ID to register to vote for the first time.)
- Do NOT supply a Florida driver’s license number OR the last four digits of a Social Security number on the form. Instead, check the box that says, “I have NONE of these numbers.” Failure to check that box could result in the registration being rejected. (*Please note: Florida verifies their voter registration through matching driver’s license numbers AND/OR verifying the last four digits of the Social Security number. However, people may register to vote without either, pursuant to the Help America Vote Verification portion of the HAVA and Florida state law.)
Link to HAVA
Florida’s voter registration form instructions:

- Provide a bogus RESIDENTIAL ADDRESS. (It doesn’t matter if someone else lives there. It will not be used to verify the voter registration)
- Provide a P.O. Box as your MAILING ADDRESS.


• Make a copy of the registration forms for future reference.

• Mail in the originals.

• Using the information used on the registration forms, each team member would then request any type of information from a local, state, or federal government agency to be mailed to their P.O. Box(es). The specific type of information requested doesn’t matter, but the envelopes sent in response to the requests can be saved for use as ID — if necessary — later on in the process.

• Request X amount of mail-in ballots using the same info provided on the registration forms, including the MAILING ADDRESSES that are P.O. Boxes. Request for Mail-In Ballot Form

• Receive your mail-in ballots at your P.O. Box(es).

• Fill out your mail-in ballots using the info provided on the registration forms, including the MAILING ADDRESSES that are P.O. Boxes. *You do NOT need to provide ID to vote by mail in Florida if you are over 65 — not even if it’s your first time voting in Florida.Page 13 in the Florida Voter Registration Guide

• Sign the fraudulent mail-in ballots and return them, by mail.

• Check your P.O. Box(es) periodically to ensure there are no mismatched signature issues to resolve.

- If you are notified any of the fraudulent mail-in ballots were found to have a mismatched signature, correct the issue by signing the affidavit enclosed in the notices. Deliver the affidavit to an election office before 5 p.m. the day before the election. It doesn’t matter if you could never-ever pass for a 65+ year old voter. In Florida, another person can deliver the affidavit for the voter. Use the above-described 'ID' (envelopes) when returning the affidavits. This process was ordered, last week, by a judge in Florida. Preliminary injunction + draft affidavit in the Appendix

3. Lastly, win the election with this voter-fraud scheme.

***

As far as I can tell, the above process would never raise a single red flag and therefore, it would never provide evidence for us to consider. As a cynic, I just don’t believe the weaknesses in the system of election laws, in the U.S. and states, have not been mulled over and likely exploited.

And if something like this is exploited in Florida, then it could turn an entire election.

FYI, mail-in votes are looking good right now for Hillary, in Florida. Link

a reply to: MotherMayEye

And you can bet that if someone like you can figure out how to game the system, those who have been involved with politics as long as Clinton and her minions certainly would be able to.

Another method which I could foresee being used is this:

The DNC has access to the voter database. They would also have a record of who votes and who is not likely to vote. Given their propensity to manipulate the system to their advantage, I can easily envisage them using legally registered voters who, for whatever reason did not vote, to 'fill in the blanks,' for their purposes.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

I suspect there a multitude of ways to exploit the system in order to 'rig' elections, in probably most states.

I feel compelled to remind people that an Ohio Voter Registration database was breached, in 2008, by a Democratic official who accessed it to get information used to smear 'Joe the Plumber.' People may recall that kerfluffle.

'Joe the Plumber's' child support records were unlawfully accessed, during the 2008 election, and those records were held on the same database that Ohio uses to register all clients of Ohio's Department of Jobs & Family Services, as voters.

Little wonder that Helen Jones-Kelly took the fall for it (Link) and the entire kerfluffle was swept under the rug without any further investigation.

Obviously, that database is not secure from prying eyes wishing to do harm to political enemies.

Another reminder...Ohio is also HUGE swing state that could determine the winner of a national election and be decided by a 'handful' of votes.

Funny, I have been thinking kind of along these lines, but more form the aspect of the "Early Voting." They really seem to be pushing this very strongly this election.

I've just been wondering with all the things we here have a clue about, i.e., what could possibly come down the pike soon, leaks etc. what if you have voted early and something does come out now after you have voted that would totally change your mind?

There is no redoes or mulligans. Your vote is already in the bucket.
Kind of a too bad so sad....

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Here's another thought...

Below is a snapshot of an interactive map showing how many voter registrations have been submitted to Social Security, by Florida, to verify the last four digits of a registrant's SS# (specifically, the pop-up shows how many SS#/Names/Birth Dates were matched and how many could not be matched.)



WTH? 172550 non-matches and 378190 matches?

Why are so many unable to be matched? Nearly a third of voter registration applicants, in Florida, cannot be verified by the last four digits of the SS#s they provide!

And it's not just Florida, the rate of non-matches is so high all over the country. It's unbelievably high in New York.

Look at NY's stats:


More than 40% of voter registration applicants, in New York, are rejected because the last four digits of the SS# provided does not match!

How can so many registrants get the last four digits of their SS# wrong?

Link to SSA/HAVV interactive map

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Oooh, fun!

I took a look and for the week of October 1, 2016, Illinois had an interesting thing happen:


How's that for helping America vote?

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Good lord! Did you see California's stats?????




5,319,440 NON-MATCHES
500,167 MATCHES

How on earth? The vast majority have to be attempted fraudulent voter registrations.

And in California.

I can't believe I missed that one earlier.

Wow. Just. Flipping. Wow.

It is a shame your thread is getting a better response. I think you have a dry valid question here as to what is going on? You've laid it out so nicely too.

Do you think a lot of that is from illegals voting. The states with those high numbers do have quite a few of them.

I guess the only other question is just who the heck are those votes going too? Then again, when you think about what the actual voting numbers will be per state, would these numbers really make a dent in swaying the outcome?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Sooo ... am I missing something?

The HAVV system is working as intended? Weeding out bad voter registrations?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

How on earth? The vast majority have to be attempted fraudulent voter registrations.

Please clarify your definition of fraudulent registrations.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Sooo ... am I missing something?

The HAVV system is working as intended? Weeding out bad voter registrations?

Yes...if a DL number and/or last four digits of a SS# are offered for registration, it appears the HAVV weeds out a lot of bad voter registration.

However, under the HAVA, neither number actually has to be offered to register voters.

In Florida, you don't have to offer either number, you can just mark the box, "I have NONE of these numbers." And that's where the HAVV system falls apart. If you fraudulently register as older than 65, you don't even need to show ID, either.


Link to Florida's voter registration form

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MotherMayEye

How on earth? The vast majority have to be attempted fraudulent voter registrations.

Please clarify your definition of fraudulent registrations.

I would think that if the vast majority of those 'non-matches,' in California, were simply 'errors,' then you would see roughly the same percentage of 'non-matches' in every state. Surely the vast majority were attempts to register fraudulently.

Maybe I am overstating that. If you have info to the contrary, please post. I'd love to be wrong about that.

I'm floored at how many bad attempts are made at voter registration after looking at the HAVV stats.

originally posted by: onehuman
I guess the only other question is just who the heck are those votes going too? Then again, when you think about what the actual voting numbers will be per state, would these numbers really make a dent in swaying the outcome?

I chose Florida for this post because it might not take much voter fraud to turn an election there -- I used Bush's 537 margin of victory, in Florida, as an example.

ALSO...We will probably never know who 'successful' fraudulent registrants' votes are going to...dun, dun, dun...because of the massive increase in *Unaffiliated" registrations, in Florida:



If someone is going to take part in a massive voter-fraud scheme...they will likely register as 'Unaffiliated.'

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Oooh, fun!

I took a look and for the week of October 1, 2016, Illinois had an interesting thing happen:

How's that for helping America vote?

ah, Illinois. what a lovely place.

‘Calibration error’ changes GOP votes to Dem in Illinois county

www.foxnews.com...

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Remember this?

This is what's happening. Voter ID laws were made nonexistent this election and state vote registration rolls were packed with registered voters who never had to provide evidence they were eligible to vote.

They didn't have to provide a SS# nor prove residence. They were verified by MAILING addresses...even a PO BOX. As long as the Applicant could receive their Voter Registration Card within 10 days and it didn't get returned by the USPS...they were deemed eligible to register and added.

They've have 18 years to pack the voter registration rolls around the country and whittle away at Voter ID laws.

Covid expedited it, because this election is the final step. They won't return to Photo ID laws now that we've opened this door.

Were ballots preprinted with a Voter ID number and mailed to Voters who did not have to provide ID when they returned it?

They made it ridiculously easy to illegally register to vote AND vote.

There are so many voter registration frauds that they had to create a whole new number identification system for registered voters. Instead of our SS#s identifying voters, they assign a Voter ID# to every registered Voter -- with or without a SS#.

You realize that by proving this is true it would Invalidate the election we just had .
The night mare that will follow would destroy any thing left of the country .

This is M>A>D .
No one wins when the system goes into total melt down .


O and just who is it that would have the most to Gain from a melt down ?
Its NOT china as they relie on the massive amounts of money The US brings into them .

NOT trump as trying to keep him in at this point would be more then enough to bring the country down .

All thus people who you just aid are behind the doors .

well anyway guess we will find out over the next 2 months if there will be a President to even fight over .