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People sure are reporting seeing a lot of strange things - Some reports from NUFORC

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posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 05:50 AM
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On the subject of photographing and documenting UFO's, which has come up in this thread, I invite you to have a look at the great work by the australian researcher Paul Dean on how the US military struggled with the UFO problem during the Vietnam war. Here is a blog entry that convincingly shows that the US military was actively investigating and trying to both identify and photograph UFOs in 1969.

It seems also apparent that they were having as much trouble obtaining good pictures as the average civilan seems to have.

On a side note, Paul Dean has also uncovered a lot of other very damning evidence that shows very convincingly that:

Bluebook did not receive a lot of the more convincing reports from the US military.
UFOs were being routinely reported and investigated through the various branches of the military long after the closure of Project Bluebook and supposed end of investigations into this phenomenon.
There was even a joint service conference on the "UFO Problem" around 1968, only two years before the closure of Project Bluebook in 1970. You can read about this, all laid out with beautiful documentation, on his blog.

He has managed to document much of this, very convincingly, through official documents released from the archives.

So go look at the blog, because I think he is doing an absolutely fantastic job of digging out this information, which seems to contradict the official story rather starkly. I think his work deserves much more attention.

BT
edit on 26-10-2016 by beetee because: Grammar




posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: beetee

That's possible. Various people have theorized that the phenomenon is in the ultraviolet or the infrared.

Now, while I'm doubtful that the phenomenon, at it's core, is composed of standard matter *OR* energy,
there is no doubt that it often has a splash over into normal matter and energy when it so desires.

I know I'm talking about sentience here.. there is no other way to talk about it.. it is quite commonly reported that the phenomenon senses and interacts with the thoughts of the observers. Of course that is subjective.. but it's been reported for longer than the so-called "UFO phenomenon"h as even existed, back in it's prior forms.

Now, I'm not certain whether the phenomenon is completely "omniscient" in terms of being (likely) atemporal,
so it can see what we will try to do to "catch it" before we even catch it, so there is no point.. other than maybe saying "pretty please let me use my ghost-buster type equipment to take your picture" --- which i don't think would work -- it's a very cantankerous phenomenon.

But it *might* be that we simply have not happened upon the right mixture of sensors and determination and the phenomenon is not as "omniscient" as it seems to be.

However it would seem that normal cameras are about pointless. In fact I might say, that the reason that the "golden age of UFOs" *seems* to have passed, is because of those increased cameras and perhaps other types of sensors / radars / etc.

If the phenomenon does not wish to be "proven* which seems to be the case (or it would "land on the white house lawn"), then it has no choice, but to do exactly what it has been doing...

That being, there are the same or more "sightings" but these "sightings" seem to be projected into the human mind, with even less physical evidence than in the "golden age".

Maybe if we kept our cameras and devices at home.. the phenomenon would come out again in the manner it once did.

I"m aware of the percentage speculation in my post.

Kev



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 02:44 AM
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awww.abovetopsecret.com...

The above link may be of interest, had a quick look at your link will have more time tonight. Briefly back then they relied on film, tech has change a lot as you can see above had a quick look and can see issues about how they tried to capture images.

I have other threads re the Sony A7s to show real time Milky Way and Aurora videos. Equipment like this would help with lots of supposed ufo videos/pictures.



reply to: beetee




edit on 27-10-2016 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2016 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: beetee

I had a read at the link they talk about a test taking pictures of there own Helicopters with the camera used on a Phantom jet 38 exposures using a photoflash cartridge dropped from the aircraft and getting only 2 exposures where they could identify the helicopter. Lots of problems to solve the speed of the jet, what asa was the film , controlling the camera field of view, what lens was used focal length aperture etc to not a lot to go on.

Now I like to show examples if possible so here we go.

I saw an object at night near my house I knew what it was, I could hear it but thought it would be a good example to show on here. I got out my camera with the 70-300 zoom on it from the last shots I took. I didn't change exposures settings manual focus and took some video here is a still from that video.



Your typical ATS/youtube light at night shot.

Next I changed the exposure again manual focus a still from the video now looks like this.



It's now easy to see what it was.

To give you and idea in daylight this jet was at over 25000 feet (checked on flightradar 24) and a few miles down range from my house .

This is a crop from the center of the frame.



My equipment is not top range but I do know how to use it 30+ years taking pictures helps.

I have a good chuckle at some youtube videos posted on threads on here when I read the claims made by the youtube posters and some members on here more so when it's obvious they have no idea about photography.



posted on Oct, 28 2016 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

Thank you :-)

Very informative. I had a look at the Astrographers thread earlier today, and there sure was some pretty amazing pictures there. I bought a Newtonian Reflector on a Dobsonian mount about a year ago, and it has provided me with some fantastic experiences. There really is nothing like looking at Jupiter with it's moons with your own eyes. And "discovering" that Saturn really has rings, and you can see them !

Unfortunately budget constraints ment that I could not afford a tracking mount, so long exposures are difficult to manage. as I would have to track by hand.

I admit that I understand why astrography has such a strong pull, because the first thing I thought when I looked at Jupiter through my telescope was "I have to get a picture of this so that I can show people what I just saw..".

Well, I could not get it, of course, because I didn't have the equipment.

I understand your point about good quality pictures and video, and how it would convince more people that this phenomenon is real, but I disagree with what I perceive is your stance, which I believe to be since there are no good photos, it cannot be real. Correct me if I am wrong.

In the VIetnam "mystery helicopter" case that I referred you to earlier, the US army and Airforce took it very seriously indeed, because they were in the middle of a war. So they did what they could, scrambling jets and tracking on radar, yet they came away with nothing. Not even wreckage. And then they tried to do a comparison of how difficult it would be to capture a real helicopter, and almost failed... But they still got two good frames...

Now, how strange is that?

Could it not be, instead, that due to the characteristics of this phenomenon, whatever is causing it, taking good quality pictures is near impossible? Instead of saying that all these thousands of people who are seeing some pretty weird things are somehow delusional or outright liars?

I don't have the answers for that, but I am not willing to write off all this "anectdotal evidence" just because the images and movies are nonexistent, hoaxes and poor...

I am, however, willing to concede that there are a lot of "probable" misidentifaction of things, because I have done it myself once. Some atmospheric weirdness caused Venus to appear much brighter than usual, and I got all excited and grabbed my decent Nikon and shot nearly half an hour of it. And, of course, it was crap. How could it be anything else with a handheld DSLR without some serious optics attatched? It's a planet, so it's pretty far away. I think I added the video, sans my pretty embarrasing commentary, to a thread you made once here on ATS.

But Venus, of course, does not go away, so after a while my excitement waned because it was moving with the rotation of the earth, and finally Stellarium settled it.

Still, that is a long way away from some of the things you will find in the sightings database this thread is about.

However, I sincerely hope that if you one night get to see something weird in the sky, your telescope will be ready and your camera in hand, and we will find out if it is possible to get some great photographic eveidence of these kinds of "objects" at all. I could even settle for a quick snapshot of some secret aircraft or other :-)

And when people call "FAKE" and "CGI", I hereby solemnly promise that I shall not.
Because, I find you credible.

BT



posted on Oct, 29 2016 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: beetee

I think you have the wrong idea on what I believe I have no doubt that out there life like us and much more advanced exists or has existed the problem is distance, time & evolution.

The furthest stars in our own Galaxy are 75,000 light years from us, Drakes equation which a lot of people cling too to calculate the number of possible races out there is a guesstimate based on a collection of assumptions which can't be confirmed.

As for my stance on photographs/video we have had MANY years of photographs/videos & claims, yet nothing that would constitute 100% proof something there doesn't add up.

Now as for reports like I have said we have scam artists on youtube with ufo channels listed on a this Thread created to prey on the gullible, we have people who claim to know the night sky well and always looking at it who obviously don't, we will have out and out liars, attention seekers and totally delusional people who will post anything for attention.

Then we will have genuine sightings of objects and lights that are misidentified, for example there are many videos on youtube of claimed shape changing ufo's. Those are caused by auto focus on cameras having trouble locking onto the object you will see in my post above I mention manual focus below is an example of what can happen


De-focused star (or bright light) at different aperture settings and position in the frame.

Then we have people that see a small dark spot on daylight video or a light at night that make claims of speed and acceleration when they don't know the size or distance to the object so you cant do it.

Also people with no knowledge of photography that don't know how speed or the direction of travel with respect to the camera effects the apparent speed.

To see the effect of direction with respect to the camera when on a freeway/motorway in a car traveling at a reasonable speed look straight ahead then quickly look out a side window your speed wont have changed but look to the side as the background crosses your field of view it looks like you are going faster.

Also the focal length of the lens and distance focused at can make dramatic changes on how something looks.

The images below 2 different focal lengths composed to make the statue the same approximate size but look at the church.





The reason I joined here was someone on another site said I would see good evidence on here I am still waiting, there will be more chance of someone like me getting some real evidence than a 100 % ufo believer with an iphone or consumer digital video camera that posts on youtube everyday and everything they film is evidence of aliens.

It's now the time of year I look forward to winter cold crisp really dark nights all I want is a few really clear nights as last year wasn't good to get some good night sky images and you never know maybe something even more interesting as well.



posted on Oct, 29 2016 @ 06:57 PM
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So how does "EM resonant plasma cavity to fit the craft inside of. Inside that cavity you can using that laser and signals mixing and a few superconductors (3 in this case) to achieve a special form of quantum optical squeezing that replicates casimir like effects on a macro scale. Reduces mass. Much safer than the old discs. Basically uses Cavity Quantum Electro Dynamic concepts." propel the craft?
Sources please.



posted on Oct, 29 2016 @ 09:28 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Since the golden age of UFO's as humans our attention spans have shortened to the "sound bite" and it's possible this is causing problems with it interacting with us the way it once did. We've moved on and "it" is playing catch up?

Then there's the thought Washington DC was laid out in a specific way and that would preclude "it" being able to actually manifest on the White House lawn?



posted on Oct, 29 2016 @ 09:34 PM
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a reply to: Caver78

I agree with your first paragraph.

I disagree with your second paragraph.

Kev



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

Thanks for the time you took in explaining how our camera can be both inadequate and fooled into backing up our faulty perceptions.


I'll toss in that it's known that our eyes only actually see a portion or what's in front of us and our brains fill in the blanks.
The last thing we can trust is our senses in a incident of "strangeness". What we would be seeing probably isn't what it is, or even the half of it, what we're hearing may only be the fraction that falls into our range of sound perception and it's all to easy in the shock of something unexpected for our brains to correlate everything incorrectly. I've long thought in some cases of missing time there was not an abduction, but something happened to the witness so far out of the realm of their "normal" their brain just shut everything off. As a protection.

Instead folks assume, and a hypnotherapist is assumed to be able to just go in and retrieve the experience. I'd say if someone was under that much duress their brain is using something that drastic to protect itself that going in and digging will only result in more false information since our brains will do anything to protect itself. I think we see this in UFO witnesses that wait years, decades before being able to communicate what they saw. Even then it's filtered thru their own frames of reference. A R&D guy for Lockheed is going to have completely different frames of reference than a truck driver.

The result is we still "may" be getting lots of incorrect information. Not intentionally but there it is.
So I think you're right in we NEED people who have the equipment but as it's been said before better results have been procured with Brownies and the older tech. That may speak to the nature of whatever "it" is and it's a clue we keep overlooking.



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: Caver78

One of your better responses.

Now, I'm a pretty sturdy fellow in a lot of ways.. my 8 years in the Navy put me in extreme conditions all the time.. that's just one example. Another would be my 35 years of so-called "Kundalini Yoga" practice.. you have to learn to control your mind and body and to resist self-generated delusions which flare up continuously for years.

But 45 seconds of interacting with the BTUFO and I became messed up for several years.

These kind of phenomenon mess people up bad, often for a lifetime.

Now.. how much is due to the phenomenon itself and how much is just (let's call it) "hysteria" which then gets all conflated, I cannot say.

But yes, we just see/sense a tiny fraction of one spectrum (the EM spectrum). Trying to catch "UFOs" with a camera is like trying to catch "god" with a butterfly net.

But of course we have to try various things.

Kev



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: Violater1

Well id start with googling "dark solitons quantum optical squeezing negative energy" etc and read up.

The following eill be written in psuedo scientific terms loosely explaining how it all works to make it more easily understood. Also please excuse any grammer or spelling. Im typing all this on my phone.

Essentially though. Theres a relationship between heisenbergs uncertainty principle and planck, random vacuum fluctuations of the vacuum (heisenberg) and energy levels(Planck)

Quantum optical squeezing is a technique that allows you to dictate the fluctuations from being random (noise) to favoring one part of the spectrum (soliton) over the rest of the noise.

When you have a EM frequency from say a laser. It will along side its fundamental frequency, have whays called noise due to heisenbergs uncertainty principle . Some of this noise will be of very low energy states. Others as high. But random fluctuations of energy inside the quantum vacuum. The lower the frequency the more potential for low energy noise. Some even drop below the energy threshold or baseline of the quantum vacuum and are considered "negative" energy. Not much but some. The net effect is still "positive" energy.

However, as you amplify the noise over the low frequency laser and using signals mixing methods you can induce a "dark" soliton. Basically the spectrum of noise will have a consistant spike towards low energy over high. Think of a trench in a spectrum of frequency.

Normally using a dark soliton laser you can only make this trench so deep when you amplify it before it gets cut off and cant dive any deeper. The net energy levels are still higher than that of the quantum vacuum.

But... If you use a superconductor you can make that trench dive so deep below the quantum vacuums base energy levels threshold that its now producing more negative than positive.

You can use a plasma bloom teased into a bubble (that the vehicle sits in) and have it act as a cavity that will contain certain frequencies that resonate with it. You can engineer the cavity to essentially bottle up the frequencies that coincide with your trench or dark soliton.

Now everything contained in that cavity will have less energy density than that of normal space (quantum vacuum) around it. You will have less mass, inertia etc. The higher energy density of the vacuum will push in on that bubble causing a pressure. Similar to the casimir effect but on a macroscopic scale.

You can manipulate this cavity so that one side of the bubble does a better job than the other in maintaining levels of negative energy density. Although all of the bubble and its contants will still be of lower energy density than that of the quantum vacuum it will have a gradient. This will allow one side to experience more pressure from the energy levels of the quantum vacuum over the other. There will be a differential in pressure squeezing the bubble and its contents in the opposite direction of the higher side of the gradient. Like when you squeeze a wet bar of soap. Theres less pressure on one sidevthan the other and the soap bar shots out of your hand. Obviously this imparts motion to the bubble and everything inside of it in that direction. Now you have a rig that lowers mass, inertia and generates propulsion. Because its got less mass theres lesd work reqyired to accelerate. Less work required to attain very high speeds. And all you have to do to streer or change direction is change which way the gradient is orientated. Since your inertia is reduced you can make near 90 degree turns and do all those ufo tricks. You can zip along at crazy speeds. You can balance the bubble and make no gradient and instantly stop and hover. You can use this anywhere yoy can set up a plasma bubble.


The neat thing is once you have enveloped your craft in plasma, you can use the same low frequency laser (the red light on the bottom of the triangle) called a phase conjugate dark soliton to create the initial bubble that forms the EM resobant cavity and then using a conjunction of the superconductors and signals mixing method induce the quantum optical squeezing the light creating the negative energy.

So that explains the plasma making the ufo glow. It explains the red light in the center.

The triangle shape is because theres three superconductors. Why three? Because each super conductor is spinning. It will cause counter rotation with medium its travelling through and much like a gear start making the object the spinning superconductor sits in (the ufo) to spin. Old "ufos" the discs had one central superconductor and they would spin because of that counter rotation. Not only is that annoying but it makes the vehicle unstable and hard to control. But if you have three spinning superconductors in a triangle configuration the counter rotation will interlock and no spin will result of the vehicle. Its now much more stable and easier to control. And also now a triangular "ufo"

This is for sublight velocities. For faster than light mode the triangle needs to create a dielectric field around it that can, using sophisticated time varience techniques, match impedance with the EM virtual particles that comprise the quantum vacuum which sets the speed of light due to its refractive index so that the speed of light is vastly fastervthan bormal. You still wont be going faster than light inside that bubble (einstiens right) But your speed of light is faster than everyone elses speed of light.

You can have the same componants inside the ufo running differently to achieve this mode of operation. Although super luminal travel is inherently dangerous and the prior sub luminal propulsion i discussed earlier (the bulk of this post) is much safer and more often used.

But mode "2" -the super luminal method would have to be a totally new post of equal length.



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: beetee

WOW!
this is the same ufo reported by lee parish on my recent thread
sincronicities are real people!



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

The BTUFO I saw (quite clearly) had a white, flickering search-light like thing in the center.

But your theory is interesting for sure. I might have to read up on it.

Kev



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

i will repeat : those things arent aliens!


the most plausible explanations are:
1: interdimensional beings
2:unknow type of desilusion
3:the distortion hypothesys:caravaca102.blogspot.com.br...
so there isnt any evidence of mog from zog because those things arent mog from zog



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 10:52 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hey kev.

Not sure about the flickering searchlight. Maybe some laser to tickle the bubble and keep it stable or tuned.

Im sure theyve tried many configurations.



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

I'm not saying there aren't some high tech black craft out there, but your theorized configuration does not match my sighting nor that of many others.

But it might match some...

Kev



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Lotsa ways to skin a cat



posted on Oct, 30 2016 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: humanoidlord

I read that distortion hypothesis.

There is more to say, but for a single link on the net it is more accurate than most. A good primer.

Kev



posted on Nov, 4 2016 @ 05:26 PM
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Getting back to this.

I would say we are talking about three separate things an by rolling them all into one are essentially talking at cross purposes. By three separate things I specifically mean,

Mog from Zog
Black aircraft projects and with that black weapon's testing
Jacque Vallee's Control system/ or the Distortion Hypothesis / or More ( bare with me on this)

First you have actual unknown craft not from earth, or probes or whatever. I will allege they are the smallest portion of this pie chart. There has been enough reports and documentation from different govt agencies to theorize that if they took this threat as credible enough to prompt several decades of internal communications that there is something to it.
Even without that we have enough data to surmise as much.

Black aircraft projects and weapons testing is a larger piece of the pie as we know for a fact governments have no qualms about using the general population as a sounding board for how they think these things will work in real time.
While not every black triangle may be "ours" I'll bet most are. This can also be said of the sky sound anomalies.

On to what Vallee called the control system, or something I would liken to a global collective entity. It's everywhere yet nowhere in particular. It manifests in different locations in a myriad of different phenom, yet can over all be considered part of the same thing. While the Distortion Hypothesis is still in the running here, collective hallucinations to poke humanity in a desired direction wouldn't be prone to leaving physical evidence. To expound on this in general, let me toss a wild card into the mix. What if?

What if what Vallee experienced as his Control System is nothing more than what others would call The Medicine River? He was a scientist so describing things in his frame of reference would take that direction. To a Native Shaman it would be understood and described within a different framework. Both work with physics, yet in different ways and terminology. I will toss out there that this Global entity or medicine river manifests much like the the Distortion Hypothesis, yet originates outside of us, not from our subconscious. Just the fact that we can't and aren't able to perceive everything within our own limited physicality doesn't mean that something of this nature isn't living alongside of us and has been all along. Each manifestation a perverse attempt at gaining our recognition of "it". Where we "went with it" is on us.


In separating these three different things we would be able to more easily not only discuss it, but maybe tease out more answers. Instead UFO reports are clogged up with orb reports, and the Brown Mountain lights, reports of high strangeness as well. Entity reports are scattered thru crypto websites, Possible legit new Govt military craft sightings are strewn thru UFO reports....sheesh! What a mess!!
edit on 4-11-2016 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)







 
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