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There is Absolutely No Evidence of Widespread Voter Fraud

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posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66


Show us this software that can "rig" elections.


HEre is a thread dedicated to the GEMS software:


The GEMS central tabulator program is incorrectly designed and highly vulnerable to fraud. Election results can be changed in a matter of seconds. Part of the program we examined appears to be designed with election tampering in mind. We have also learned that election officials maintain inadequate controls over access to the central tabulator. We need to beef up procedures to mitigate risks.


Diebold GEMS Central Tabulator Contains Stunning Security Hole by Bev Harris




posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




So, to be clear, you are saying that you know people, personally that have committed voter fraud?

Yep


Have you turned them in?

I've called ICE a few times.


ID should be required for voting, and everyone should be verified and provided with one.

That actually already happens.



I'm in favor of a National ID card with RFID chip. Are you?

lol really?



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Vector99

In rough order ...

Really? How many?

Good on you for the courage of your convictions spurring you to action.

No, IDs are not provided to every US citizen. Some States make them "available" which doesn't fit the bill.

Really.
edit on 23-10-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Spelling



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 12:09 PM
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Well, one of the wikileaks emails reveals a conversation between Podesta and other Clinton staffers about how modernizing the voter registration system would make the rolls more accurate, and would keep millions of people from being disenfranchized by voterID laws.

Of course, the alt-right media completely misinterpreted that email (on purpose, I'm sure) to claim they were trying to get illegals to vote, which was a flat out lie.

My point is that not everyone appears to be interested in perpetuating an environment where voter fraud goes unnoticed.



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 12:20 PM
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I guess you missed the hidden videos of Veritas talking about voter fraud ?



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 12:23 PM
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originally posted by: beeeyotch
I guess you missed the hidden videos of Veritas talking about voter fraud ?


www.thenation.com...



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Black Box Voting indeed.

The assertions made on that site are interesting, however, no basis for their claims is provided.

How did they get access to the internal workings of the machines?

What is the background of whoever did the "investigation" for them?

What version of the software did they "review" and when?

Etc.

Black Box is appropriate; no backup or evidence is given for their claims.



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66


no backup or evidence is given for their claims.


Maybe if you had read through some of the links, you might have seen the following:


For approximately one week prior, RABA’s Innovative Solution Cell (RiSC) augmented with consultants from the University of Maryland and U.C. Davis were given copies of the source code and access to both a GEMS server and six AccuVote-TS terminals.


Trusted Agent Report
Diebold AccuVote-TS Voting System
(direct .pdf link)

The above study deals with accessing the central tabulator.

Re: access to the tabulator and using that access to change results:


There are approximately 3,000 different counties in the U.S., each with employees who have some level of access to the central tabulator. The following testimony provides a picture of the various people who access the GEMS server directly in Shelby County, Tennessee:

ADMINISTRATOR OF ELECTIONS RICHARD HOLDEN 2:

Q. Okay. Who all at the Election Commission has access to the GEMS server?
A. Myself, the deputy administrator of elections and the information systems personnel.
Q. And by the information systems personnel, does that include the temporary employees in that section?
A. There are times when the temporary employees have physical access to that room.

COMPUTER SYSTEMS ANALYST DENNIS BOYCE 3

Q: How many temps do you have under your purview at the time?
A: At the time now or …
Q: At the time of the August election.
A. I had six.

Q. Who else on your staff?
A. I had a resource. Ruth Ann Phelps
Q. … would anybody else have been there with her?
A. That’s hard to say.
Q. Who all had access to the tabulating room for the August election period?
A. The tabulation room was the IS department.
Q. Okay.
A. And the administrator has the codes too.
Q. Do your temps also have that access?
A. Yes.
Q. And for what reason would anybody be in the tabulating room other than maintenance of the computer?
A. We have a switch and routers in that room as well.
Q. Okay.
A. So that would be a reason. And our GIS computer is in there too.
A. … Most of — that’s hard to say exactly who was in there going in and out. As I’ve said before, that’s a tabulation room and it has our routers and switches in there so my staff has access to that room all the time. I can’t give you have a number of who.


blackboxvoting.org

The above are from court depositions.

More:


One way to perform fraction magic is to use a copy of the election database, give it the same file name, and overwrite the real election data.

In Pima County, Arizona, it was revealed during litigation that a technician was making copies of the GEMS election database and taking it home overnight, then loading it back onto the official computer in the morning. 20

Multiple copies of the GEMS database should not be floating around during live elections, except as official backup copies, which are passworded and documented in the audit log. When we obtained file directory listings of several computers in the Shelby County elections office, we found live GEMS election databases on four different computers. A “live” GEMS database, in contrast to a backup database, is one with file suffix “.mdb”. Backup GEMS databases have suffix “.gbf”.

DEPOSITION OF SHELBY COUNTY ELECTION OPERATIONS MANAGER ALBERT HOLMES 21

Q. How many GEMS servers are there at the Election Commission Operation Center?
A. Two.
Q. Are there GEM servers at the downtown —
A. — I understand there’s one.
Q. Okay. I was going to say the downtown Election Commission Office. Let me finish.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know who has access to the GEMS tabulators or the GEMS servers?
A. Not to the one at the main office downtown. I imagine he only has access. The other is in the absentee room.


All items are indexed and sourced, much of which is from court transcripts.

Checks out as more legit than your questioning of them.
edit on 23-10-2016 by jadedANDcynical because: fixed tags

edit on 23-10-2016 by jadedANDcynical because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Read through the "leaks"? You mean links?

The Black Box group states on the page provided that they have reviewed the software/hardware.

Apparently that is not correct.

The report you link here to the RABA material tells a completely different story from the one at Black Box.

At any rate these issues were noted and apparently resolved back in 2004 or so.

What is the current status? It seems that the security issues were found and fixed, based on what you're providing here.

Still, this doesn't back up the assertion you chimed in on that claimed there was "software to rig elections" ... unless you're trying to claim that the software that runs the actual machines is that software.

So, what's the current status in 2016?



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Gryphon66

So just because something is not instantly a 100% foolproof solution, you shouldn't even try, right? Why do you keep shooting down any and all ides to stop voter fraud? Perhaps because, as we've all seen lately, the Democrats are the ones who have gained from it?


I haven't said anything of the sort. I haven't shot down any ideas, in fact, I've noted on several occasions that I'm in favor of ID for voting.

Perhaps you're here promoting an agenda yourself and want to muddy the water with outright lies?

/shrug
fantastic. Then we agree that voter ID is needed. If it saves ONE instance of fraud from happening, it was worth it.



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Gryphon66

So just because something is not instantly a 100% foolproof solution, you shouldn't even try, right? Why do you keep shooting down any and all ides to stop voter fraud? Perhaps because, as we've all seen lately, the Democrats are the ones who have gained from it?


I haven't said anything of the sort. I haven't shot down any ideas, in fact, I've noted on several occasions that I'm in favor of ID for voting.

Perhaps you're here promoting an agenda yourself and want to muddy the water with outright lies?

/shrug
fantastic. Then we agree that voter ID is needed. If it saves ONE instance of fraud from happening, it was worth it.


I've long maintained that a National ID is needed ... for many things. I have no problem with voting being one of them.

It needs to be Federally provided and maintained as too many States have been subsumed in partisan politics.

Glad we agree.



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 02:35 PM
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Funny how the Department of Defense can be hacked, but we are supposed to believe that voting machines are unhackable.



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
Funny how the Department of Defense can be hacked, but we are supposed to believe that voting machines are unhackable.



I don't think, personally, that any computer is "unhackable" ... who has said that?

Did someone say it here? Or is that just another fake argument?



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Did I blame anyone here?

Hillary and crew are trying their best to tell us that we have no reason to believe that the elections can be rigged.

edit on b000000312016-10-23T14:53:34-05:0002America/ChicagoSun, 23 Oct 2016 14:53:34 -0500200000016 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Gryphon66

Did I blame anyone here?

Hillary and crew are trying their best to tell us that we have no reason to believe that the elections can be rigged.


Not that I've seen. The statements are that 1) media doesn't "rig" elections and 2) voter fraud is basically non-existent.

The Trump campaign is desperately trying to spin their impending loss into anything except facing the reality that their candidate has demonstrated himself to be utterly unfit for the White House.



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66


So, what's the current status in 2016?


Very similar to, if not exactly the same, as when these investigations were conducted.


Six days after Memphis voters went to the polls last October to elect a mayor and other city officials, a local computer programmer named Bennie Smith sat on his couch after work to catch up on e-mail.
...
When the polls closed at 7 p.m., he was at Unity Christian and snapped some photos with his BlackBerry of the precinct’s poll tape—literally a tally of the votes printed on white paper tape and posted on a church window. Since the printouts come directly from the voting machines at each location, election officials consider it the most trustworthy count. According to the tape, Smith’s guess was close: 546 people had cast ballots.

When he got an e-mail a week later with Shelby County’s first breakdown of each precinct’s voting, he ran down the list to the one precinct where he knew the tally for sure. The count for Unity Christian showed only 330 votes. Forty percent of the votes had disappeared.


Why would nearly a decade old technology still be in use?


The voting technology business, after a frenetic decade of mergers, acquisitions, and renamings, is dominated by just a few companies: Election Systems & Software, or ES&S, and Dominion Voting Systems are the largest.


Companies bought other companies, inherited technology was kept as is (legacy systems) and merely re-branded.

On top of that, these companies then sold 'service contracts,' along with the machines themselves:


When Allen County, Ohio, replaced its old voting machines in 2005 with equipment from ES&S, officials didn’t realize they’d also be stuck with a service fee of $40,000 per year to help run an election system that handled about 70,000 votes. “When we found out the cost, our jaws just about hit the floor,” says Ken Terry, who was election director there until this year.


Just how old is this equipment?


It wasn’t until the machines were purchased, and in place, that county officials realized their new system ran on software written in 1996. After counting paper ballots with an optical scanner, the data had to be transferred to a server using Zip drives—a storage format developed when pagers and AOL dial-up were still in vogue. When Allen County tried to replace the disks in 2012, they were so hard to find that officials had to ask ES&S for a set. “They were in this shrink-wrapped package,” Terry says, “and when we opened it, there was a coupon that expired in 1999.”


There are many ways votes can be tampered with:


Election officials now have more ways than ever to screw up a vote. South Carolina elections are run on ES&S machines that use cartridges—like the ones for old Nintendo game consoles—to transfer votes to a tabulator. Poll workers put the cartridge in a slot in the machine at the start of voting; after polls close, all cartridges must be delivered to the tabulator room, where they are plugged in and their data downloaded. In 2010 workers at two precincts in the state capital of Columbia mixed up cartridges and lost 1,127 votes, or almost two-thirds of the precincts’ total.


Why are they stuck with this decrepit technology?


In 2014 a presidential commission that assessed the state of voting technology, interviewing hundreds of local election officials over two years, issued a devastating judgment in its final report: “Jurisdictions do not have the money to purchase new machines, and legal and market constraints prevent the development of machines they would want even if they had funds.”


And this is from just last year:


At 7 p.m. on Oct. 8, 2015, the polls for Memphis’s municipal elections closed, and tallies began rolling in to Shelby County’s election operations center, a wide building on the eastern outskirts of the city, across from a county penal farm ringed with concertina wire. The problems began almost immediately.

About 15 minutes into counting, votes stopped coming into the GEMS tabulator from the precincts. Shelby County was using two GEMS databases that night instead of one, a troublesome configuration because each memory card can upload only to the database it was programmed on for security reasons. Problems merging the two sets of data created at least a two-hour reporting delay that night, according to a postelection analysis by ES&S. But by 8:45 p.m. the system was up and running again.

The county also happened to be using new software to post results to the web, which is a different program than the one that calculates the official tally. A worker copying the wrong file in the race for city clerk of court published the wrong vote count, which stood uncorrected until around 9 p.m.


There's room for human error to foul up a vote count in this system, and so of course purposeful manipulation can occur too.


He looked at server logs and other data that gave a picture of how GEMS operated on election night, and he found the problem was much worse. At first it looked like votes were missing from not just one precinct but 20. After more investigation, he appeared to narrow that number to four. Not all of the precincts are named in the e-mail, but a master record for the voting machines shows missing uploads at four polling places on election night, all in areas with large concentrations of black voters. Three are located at black churches: Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist, Mississippi Boulevard Christian, and Unity Christian; the fourth is at Gaston Park, a community center in a mostly black neighborhood south of downtown. The weird thing is, the GEMS system recognized at least some of the missing votes—stored on the memory cards of seven voting machines—as already counted when officials tried to reload them on Oct. 19, according to an e-mail exchange between Young and operations manager Darral Brown. But it was clear from Smith’s poll tape and other data dug up by Young that they hadn’t been. In all, 1,001 votes had been dropped from the election night count, according to the master record, including almost 400 from an early voting center at Mt. Zion, the most from any single polling place.


Bloomberg

But go ahead and keep your head in that sand.
edit on 23-10-2016 by jadedANDcynical because: empahses



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Thanks for taking the time to answer fully. It seems that your answer, at least, is based in factual information.

I'm going to do some research on my own in this regard, so I may show up in the other thread.

Thanks again for the effort!



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Speaking from the sand ...

The Bloomberg article demonstrates failures of the electronic systems that were installed after the Congresses knee-jerk response to the 2000 election.

Some new information there ... not a lot ... and still arguably:



The real threat isn’t a thrown election. Nationwide electoral fraud would be extremely difficult to pull off, mostly because votes in the U.S. are tallied by more than 7,000 counties and townships. Hacking enough of them to tip the balance would be a monumental undertaking—and one certain to be detected. (Tabulators are designed not to be connected to the internet at all.) Rather, the risk is a violation of trust: that Election Day mishaps borne of outdated, poorly engineered technology will confirm and amplify the fear pervading this campaign.


So, the Diebold software/hardware issues are not a way to steal an election, as is being touted by the OP, as well as the person I initially responded to.

No proof either of in-person voter fraud. All the issues that arose and were discussed here were caught.

And even still ... your Bloomberg article notes that this is not a way to "steal" an election ... and is this the third source you've used in our discussion alone? You're trying to patch it all together into a story that fits ... what, your agenda?

I haven't really noticed... are you a Trump supporter? Do you think these computer issues are going to be used to steal the election from him?

I mean, from what's been provided thus far, it seems the issues with the machines affect mostly low-income/predominately African American areas particularly with "lost votes."

If anyone should be worried ... seems to me it would be Clinton.
edit on 23-10-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Oh, we understand the difference. We just aren't trying to nitpick the small stuff when the outcome of the election is at stake. "If poll workers allow people to vote multiple times, that's election fraud." I believe those were your words. Widespread and willful ignorance of such events is systemic fraud.

As for locations where you do not need an ID to vote, presently 31 states enforce voter ID laws. See below to find your state.
voter ID law by state

In 2000 Clint Curtis, attorney and programmer, created software that would flip votes to a 51/49 win for whomever the desired winner was. The software would be undetectable unless you had the source code.

Dead people do appear on voter registrations every year. And they vote by absentee ballot almost exclusively. The number of incidents is unknown. Yet, somehow, you seem to have quantified it. Can you demonstrate your methods please?

If I understand you correctly, and I hope I dont, you think the idea of mass voter/election fraud is laughable. But the idea that large numbers of dead people voting by absentee ballot year after year can be explained by two people having the same last name? I would accept that flimsy excuse for, oh, lets say ten votes - to be generous.

I think you are the one reaching here.



posted on Oct, 23 2016 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

First of all who the heck is "we"? Why are you speaking in the royal plural!??

Nitpick the small stuff? You mean between two completely different things??? Right, that's just those pesky facts that keep getting in the way of belief, right?

Do you have actual evidence of "widespread and willful ignorance" of election fraud? If so, show us? Seems like the whole country is aware of the manufactured "issue" to me.

Someone who doesn't believe the line of crap being fronted for by Trump supporters isn't "willfully ignorant."

I didn't comment only on Voter ID laws, nice deflection there ... Voter ID and/or registration.

How many polling districts do nothing to register voters?

Yes, yes, we saw the Clint Curtis thread elsewhere. Same answer there. Clint Curtis was a fraud as has been shown.

SHow us these dead people voting then.

No, you understand me precisely well ... mass voter/election fraud is laughable. It's trotted out because Republicans KEEP LOSING ELECTIONS.

When you'd like to get down to any actual facts of any actual circustances instead of waving your rhetorical hands in the air telling us that the sky is falling ... I'm glad to oblige.

As it is ... nothing you've said proves anything at all except restating your (and others) belief.
edit on 23-10-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted




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