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The Beloved Disciple (Who is HE)??

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posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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"When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, 'Lord, what about him?' Jesus said to him, 'What if I want him to remain until I come? What concern is it of yours? You follow me.' So the word spread among the brothers that that disciple would not die."




posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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What verse is that from? The context would be illuminating no?



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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The beloved disciple is "John the Beloved" or "John the brother of Jesus."

I'm not sure exactly where the reference to the answer of your question is, but all religious scholars and preachers and all agree that the beloved disciple was John, who also wrote the book that your question comes out of, if I am correct. Perhaps he didn't want to refer to himself as the one that was loved by Jesus, in a way of denying pride or something?



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Ahhh... finally a man who's read scripture. Why do you call yourself southern cross?? Most from the south, know it as the burning cross of the KKK??

Anyway .. Why are there two "Conclusions"?
"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [his] disciples that are not written in this book." and
"There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written."
The latter from a chapter where there are many non-Johannine peculiarities, some suggesting Lucan Greek style.
Perhaps preserved by some disciple other than the writter of the rest of the gospel?????



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 07:12 PM
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John the brother of Jesus

Please provide a source for this. I don't recall a John being a brother of Jesus.
There was James, Jude/Judas Thomas, Jose/ Joseph and several sisters who's names are not mentioned. He also had a cousin named John but that is the
only reference i can remember to a relative named John.

There is no evidence that the name of the person that wrote the Book of John
was infact John. It is generally accepted by biblical scholars that the names
attached to the gospels were attributed to them by the scribes who copied them.

There are some who believe that Lazarus was the beloved disciple. There are also some who believe that the book of John may have been originally written by Mary M.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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I apologize, John was not the brother of Jesus. I got mixed up...Jude and James were the brothers of Jesus.

Check John 1:19, it may be taken to be talking about John, the author of his book, or it may be talking about John the Baptist, who left behind no written record.

John 21:20-24...KJV...Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

We see clearly a couple things here: the disciple who Jesus loved was a man, and this disciple wrote the Book of John. Suffice it to say that the disciple who Jesus loved was John.

And I don't know why there are two conclusions to the book of John, I guess that some manuscripts had the "long version" while others had the "short version" and being unable to see which was original they just stuck them both in there.

On the side, I call myself southern_cross3 because it represents St. Andrew's Cross, which is depicted on the flag of the Confederacy. St. Andrew was crucified sideways, hence the X on the flag. As well, one of my favorite symbols is the equal armed cross, Greek, Maltese, Iron, Chopper, or whathaveyou. And three is my favorite number.

[edit on 1/24/2005 by southern_cross3]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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I think he meant James the brother of Jesus



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 12:32 AM
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however John 11:3 specifically idendifies Lazarus as "he whom thou lovest".
as did Mark before that section was removed.(lost gospel found by Morton Smith)



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 12:58 AM
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There are two endings of Jesus' discourse in the upper room.

"He has no power over me, but the world must know that I love the Father and that I do just as the Father has commanded me. GET UP, let us GO."

Then:
the vine and the branches
the world's hatred
Jesus' departure; coming of the Advocate
Prayer of Jesus

And Then "When he had said this, Jesus went out* with his disciples across the..."
*where it seems he is leaving the supper room



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by southern_cross3
We see clearly a couple things here: the disciple who Jesus loved was a man, and this disciple wrote the Book of John. Suffice it to say that the disciple who Jesus loved was John.

[edit on 1/24/2005 by southern_cross3]


There is no proof that the author of the fourth gospel was John, or that the beloved disciple was a male. There are a few inconsistencies in the bible with concerns to when this disciple and Mary Magdelene are mentioned.
I believe that the very early church eliminated any mention that Mary M. was the author, and the eyewitness to Jesus' life, due to the fact that women were looked down upon, and were not worthy to be the author, or the most loved disciple.
Here is one link I have that tells one side of the argument.

members.tripod.com...



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 12:07 PM
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When Jesus and Peter are discussing the beloved disciple, the words "him" and "he" are used, which generally indicates a male.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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Good point Celtic. In Luke 24.
"Then they returned from the tomb and announced all these things to the eleven and to all the others. The women were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James; the others who accompanied them also told this to the apostles, but their story seemed like nonscense and they did NOT believe them.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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The fact is that while Jesus actually had about 120 disciples, the most important of these were the Twelve, and we are given their names, and they are men. While Mary probably was a disciple, she was not one of the twelve, and therefore wasn't the beloved disciple.

While the idea that the beloved disciple was Mary has been around for a while, that Da Vinci Code has resurrected it again, what a shame.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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"Simon Peter and another disciple followed Jesus. Now the other disciple was known to the high priest, and he entered the courtyard of the high priest with Jesus. But Peter stood outside at the gate outside. So the other diciple, the acquaintance of the high priest, went out and spoke to the gatekeeper and brought Peter in."

No one is trying to promote the Da Vinci Code. I have pointed out some inconstancy of this book. This book was probably written in the 90s of the first century. Critical anaysis makes it difficult to accept the idea that the gospel as it now stands was written by one person. I hope that doesn't shake your southern faith? Most scholars have come to the conclusion that the inconsistencies were probably produced by subsequent editing in which homogeneous materials were added to a shorter original.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by fourth horseman
Good point Celtic. In Luke 24.
"Then they returned from the tomb and announced all these things to the eleven and to all the others. The women were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James; the others who accompanied them also told this to the apostles, but their story seemed like nonscense and they did NOT believe them.


Joanna and John are the same name, I say Joanna is the beloved one.

Luke 3:27 ...of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa. KJAV



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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Very well. I'm merely pointing out what is to be gleaned from a scriptural standpoint: the author of the Book of John was the beloved disciple, which the final chapter of the book will confirm, should you carefully read it. I'll leave the rest to speculation.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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I think there is a passage there that identifies Johanna as somebodies wife.
that would preclude Johanna and John as being the same person i think. there
is some evidence that Mary might have written the john gospel. also in the gnostic writings Mary is named as The Apostels Apostel or Apostel to the Apostels. Add to that a marraige between Jesus and Mary ( this belief was around long before TDVC, long before HBHG, ) , It seem quite appearent in
The Gospel of Mary (what remains of it) that Mary recieved teaching that the
others didnt. It also seems clear that she along with James were left to lead
the church, not Peter the thick. maybe she fled palestine not in fear of the
Jews but in fear of the other 10. there is some evidence that James accompied her to Gaul and then returned.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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Indeed it does say Joanna is the wife of one of Herod's men. I only submit the idea that Joanna is John becuz it explains John's different perspective of the crucifixion, and it fits better with the 'most beloved' title that John is generally given. If the begats in the KJAV did not show 'Joanna, son of...', and if I had not researched the history of the name Joanna, for a totally unrelated reason, this idea never would have popped into my head. That is all it is, an idea.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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Do you think it would read, "The women were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James;..."?? Why would the "writer" place a man between the listing of the women?



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by fourth horseman
Do you think it would read, "The women were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James;..."?? Why would the "writer" place a man between the listing of the women?


I guess I have been very unclear as to my thoughts on this. I wondered if Joanna was a disciple that was later editted into a man. It is just a thought, and I am sorry I was so unclear.






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