California National Guard soldiers ordered to repay reenlistment bonuses

a reply to: LanceCorvette

This is a simple contract, and what they're doing, ten years later, is just wrong.

Apparently the contract had stipulations as to eligibility. Stipulations which were ignored by those accepting the contracts as well as those submitting them. Both parties.

However, I agree that it is unfair in the extreme to place the onus upon the servicemen.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Banks are "too big to fail" but we'll screw over our service men and women at the first ####ing chance.

I hate our government and California state government.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: LanceCorvette

This is a simple contract, and what they're doing, ten years later, is just wrong.

Apparently the contract had stipulations as to eligibility. Stipulations which were ignored by those accepting the contracts as well as those submitting them. Both parties.

However, I agree that it is unfair in the extreme to place the onus upon the servicemen.

May or may not be true - the article in the LA times doesn't say that the soldiers accepting the bonuses knew they weren't eligible, or that their paperwork wasn't in order.

Emphasis on the soldiers themselves "knowing" this.

If the managers granting the bonuses knew, or if the CANG found out about it later during an audit, that's a CANG problem, not an individual soldier problem.

a reply to: Bigburgh

The relationship between the Guard and the Pentagon is complicated. The Guard is vital to the missions performed, but have their own chain of command, and fall under a different command than the Pentagon under normal circumstances. There are things they can, and should do, but it's not as simple as just saying "fix this".

a reply to: LanceCorvette

This reminds me of a job I had long ago. My pay was direct deposit. 4 weeks after my first pay the company told me they put the wrong pay into my bank account and I had to repay $89.00 or I will be fired.

The company threatened to sue me. I ended up thinking karma kills, so I paid back the $89.00.

I quit my job the next day. The bad taste in my mouth made me never want to go back.

Shame on the government for doing this to good humans.

a reply to: Zaphod58

A grateful nation should scrap this kind of repo man crap.

Take that 3 trillion missing from the Pentagon budget that Donal Rumsfeld announced before 9/11 and use that to cover the costs.

a reply to: Kapriti

Exactly and stop hurting good Americans who fought a evil war. Great point you made.

Military Finance is always like this:

Error in the Military's favor takes effect now.

Error in Soldier's favor may see results in a few months after dozens of trips to finance and letters to the commander.

It is #ty but its the way of the military.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Blaine91555

Our people in uniform deserve better. Much better.

Yes.
But be aware of who perpetrated the actual fraud.

Don't be like wikileaks phage, put the links and info up for us to see.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Soloprotocol

The soldiers sign what the admin pukes tell them to...?

Before you sign any legal document best you read the terms and conditions...Always.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Soloprotocol

The soldiers sign what the admin pukes tell them to...?

Before you sign any legal document best you read the terms and conditions...Always.

If you cant meet your reenlistment conditions the military will take the money back, this is the case for a few of the soldiers, the bonus was tied to an MOS and some switched which would void the contract. Most seem to be forced to repay because of the fraud that they didn't commit and the Guard is forced to collect the debt due to a law, according to the article though the law was not specified.

It is a # show that could be fixed if the Generals stepped in and made the "Hard" decisions. But what General wants "lost $15 Million of Guard Budget due to Fraud" on their OPR.

The soldiers have filed a class action lawsuit to stop the payments demanded. The Justice Department filed a motion to dismiss the suit. A ruling is expected by year end.

Meanwhile the House of Representatives is demanding a briefing on the situation, and wants to know why they were told to pay it back when the mistake was the government's.

taskandpurpose.com... acebook&utm_campaign=news

The California National Guard told state members of Congress two years ago about this, and they did nothing. Now it's coming out that other states did the same thing, but California is the only one that has audited the bonus program.

taskandpurpose.com...

Absolutely vile. This is ridiculous. Corruption at its finest, I suppose.
Perhaps those who are getting millions in bonuses should be forced to pay those back.

~Sovereign

a reply to: SovereignEve

You want vile?

Look into the issue of Armed Forces Members who aren't being given their G.I. Bill college money, we pay into it but you can't get it out as easily if at all.

Not to mention this whole new POST 9/11 clauses, basically they've given a good bit of new benefits and such for Veterans, only if you served after 9/11 though.

Been honorably discharged since 2001 ( may ) and haven't gotten my G.I. Bill, or any help at all really. I just simply don't qualify for much because I was in the service before 9/11 but after 2000 bumping me out of a few other things I could of tried.

The saying in the Air Force was true and has remained true " We bone our own ".

originally posted by: Pyle
Military Finance is always like this:

Error in the Military's favor takes effect now.

Error in Soldier's favor may see results in a few months after dozens of trips to finance and letters to the commander.

It is #ty but its the way of the military.

It sure is. They take the money right out of your account and 3 days later you get a letter telling they are doing it.

In this case the real problem is the up front payments. Normally you need to meet your part of the agreement then get your bonus or at least most of it. Like with the radio man, he was given a bonus to be a radio man for x amount of years, he then changed jobs before that time was up and now has to pay it back when he really never should have gotten most of it until he has met his part of the agreement.

What would be ideal is if somebody could just say never mind we have it covered. When it comes to pay their does not seem to a mechanism or a person who can by law do that. I once has a pay problem for months and it was only resolved when I brought in the CINCs from two Unified Commands to raise some hell. When it takes two 4 star Generals to get a pay problem solved you know the system is screwed up.

Ah apparently the Pentagon would like to waive the debt but, it does not have the authority to do so. They can only do so one person at a time if the file an appeal. They are looking to Congress to give them the authority. Pentagon seeks to waive troops' debt in California Guard bonus scandal

“We want ... the chain of command to work with these individuals who are affected by them to help walk them through the process to seek some sort of waiver,” Davis said Monday. For now, attorneys say the Pentagon only has the authority to waive debts for individual service members. “There is not currently the authority to wave these things writ large,” Davis said. “It might require working with Congress to be able to change authorities.” Congress is scheduled to return to Capitol Hill on Nov. 14

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

I was in the Navy from 82-88. We didn't have a GI Bill. We had VEAP. You had to pay into VEAP and the Government would match 2 dollars for every dollar you paid in. Then they ended VEAP, not only did you not get the matching money, they kept the money that you paid in.

a reply to: JIMC5499

That's what the GI Bill I paid into was, and yes, I can't even recover what I paid into.

The Secretary of Defense has ordered an indefinite suspension of collection efforts as soon as practical.

taskandpurpose.com...