Abortion tussle at debate was wow

a reply to: windword

Then it is murder. Even if not under law then under morals and ethics.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Grimpachi

When the father can carry the child in his womb - then he can have the ultimate say.

How about any say at all? By your logic all babies must have been created through miracles with virgins, so there's no need for any rights for the father.

Last time I checked it takes an egg and sperm to create life.

But lets just ignore the father's right to his unborn child's life and we'll just murder his half of the creation as well.

Anyone who agrees the father has no right's over his unborn child's life is sick.

a reply to: Nucleardoom

Sure, he can have input. But because it's her body that will be messed with, it is ultimately her decision.

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: windword

Then it is murder. Even if not under law then under morals and ethics.

Whose morals and ethics? I really don't need a bunch of Muslims, Jews or Christians telling me what's moral.

It's not a universal concept.

Do you want to live under a theocracy? Not me.... I don't need some priest in a funny hat telling me how to live my life. They can **** off!

a reply to: Nucleardoom

How about any say at all?

What kind of say should a father have? Should he be able to force a woman to abort? Force her to carry his unwanted seed? Can he dictate her diet and exercise routine?

What say?

a reply to: olaru12

It's called human morals. I oppose organized religion(though unlike any other I do respect Christianity), but it is the right way morally. But fine let's all not care for one another.

a reply to: ksiezyc

But fine let's all not care for one another.

I care about the women who don't want to or can't carry their pregnancy to term. I care about a woman's right to choice.

a reply to: windword

Then don't be stupid and use the proper prevention's. Simple.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Nucleardoom


What kind of say should a father have? Should he be able to force a woman to abort? Force her to carry his unwanted seed? Can he dictate her diet and exercise routine?

What say?

No forced abortions EVER unless it's medically necessary or a case of rape. I'm pro-life so most abortions in my view are murder. Once you have kids and then think of what the alternative could have been it makes you sick. It also makes you think of yourself and that any of us could have been aborted as well.

It does open a huge can of worms by granting rights to the father, but completely dismissing his rights to that child's life clearly isn't right either. It a tough issue to be sure, but to ignore any rights the father has to his child is wrong.

Put the shoe on the other foot and for arguments sake the man carries the baby, so you're ok with the mother having zero rights to that child?

a reply to: Nucleardoom

Sooo many pregnancies spontaneously abort. Every single one of them could have been a child. No point in grieving for all the millions and millions and millions that didn't take.

One decision has to be made. If both parents agree - great. But if they don't agree, only one decision can be made. Whose decision is it, ultimately?

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: olaru12

It's called human morals. I oppose organized religion(though unlike any other I do respect Christianity), but it is the right way morally. But fine let's all not care for one another.

You seem to be perfectly ok with Trumps "HUMAN" morals; we're aware that he thinks it's OK to grab a womans puSSy....that's crazy thinking don't you think? Right, Trump cares about us all....

See your disconnect? Your moralistic gyrations are incredible....

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

Okay.

Here is a scenario...

The pregnant woman doesn't want an abortion...
The man wants her to have an abortion...

So the father should have a say? According to you?

Nope, sorry your assuming I support abortion. I'm pro-life. The only time an abortion should be performed is when it's medically necessary or in a case of rape. If you don't want the child at least have the decency to put it up for adoption.
It really makes you think about the fact that many of us could have been aborted rather than given the gift of life.
I really have a hard time understanding the casual destruction of life as it's the most precious thing in the world.

a reply to: ksiezyc

Then don't be stupid and use the proper prevention's. Simple.

No. It's not that simple. Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes, the pregnancy is very much wanted, but complication cause a woman to opt for or require an abortion for her and/or her families best interests and health.

Sometimes, sexual consent was not granted.

a reply to: olaru12

Ok we get it you have no problem with killing the unborn. That's your right just like it's mine to condemn the murders that do it.

a reply to: Nucleardoom

Once you have kids and then think of what the alternative could have been it makes you sick.

I do have kids. Many abortions are done for women who already have children. So, that has no bearing on the issue.

It a tough issue to be sure, but to ignore any rights the father has to his child is wrong.

Every relationship is different, and in many instances the father is consulted. The father's opinion is not a matter that should be legislated by government bureaucrats. It's a matter that ultimately rests on the person carrying the embryo or fetus, the woman.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Nucleardoom

Sooo many pregnancies spontaneously abort. Every single one of them could have been a child. No point in grieving for all the millions and millions and millions that didn't take.

One decision has to be made. If both parents agree - great. But if they don't agree, only one decision can be made. Whose decision is it, ultimately?

A miscarriage is far different than abortion. You have no control over it happening. Sort of nature's way of saying something's not right with the fetus or the mother.

It's worlds away from making a conscious decision to end the fetus's life.

I do agree with your last sentence though as there is no way to easily resolve the issue if mom and dad are in disagreement.

originally posted by: windword

Many abortions are done for women who already have children.

That's disturbing to say the least. Maybe mom can have a chat with her kids some day letting them know about the sibling they may have had if it wasn't killed.

Some people treat an unborn fetus as something almost inanimate as if they don't actually grow up to be people and frankly it's sad & disgusting.

originally posted by: Nucleardoom


A miscarriage is far different than abortion. You have no control over it happening. Sort of nature's way of saying something's not right with the fetus or the mother.

We don't know for sure that spontaneous abortions always happen because something was wrong with the fetus. We do know that many pregnancies go almost full term with a fetus that has horrible defects. So where was nature then? Sometimes we have to take over when nature failed, and that's where late term abortions happen.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Nucleardoom

I do have kids. Many abortions are done for women who already have children.

My point was once you have kids most parents would never dream of aborting a child unless absolutely necessary, but sadly some don't have an issue with it and that's a pretty sick and twisted viewpoint.

originally posted by: Nucleardoom
A miscarriage is far different than abortion. You have no control over it happening. Sort of nature's way of saying something's not right with the fetus or the mother.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
We don't know for sure that spontaneous abortions always happen because something was wrong with the fetus. We do know that many pregnancies go almost full term with a fetus that has horrible defects. So where was nature then? Sometimes we have to take over when nature failed, and that's where late term abortions happen.

I've already stated I do agree with it if it's medically necessary. Nature's not perfect but neither are we.
My point is the key word here: spontaneous, as in you had no control over the situation as opposed to making a conscious decision to kill the fetus. Huge difference.