Hundreds of Deep Sea Vents Found Spewing Methane off US Coast

No. Methane will heat this planet up, everything will die. It's happened before, more than once, and it's happening again. I mentioned the Moon and Mars more as a reference, as in somewhere out there other than here. Obviously trying to live on Mars under it's supposed current conditions would be tough but atleast on Mars you could terraform. What is going to happen to Earth (Again) would make Terraforming impossible for hundreds of millions of years.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: lostbook

A lot of alarmist posts in this thread. Personally, I'd like to hear from anyone with professional/scholarly background in geology or natural sciences before we start talking about bugout bags...

Bug out Bags? A bug out bag will do jack s#!t for you if you can't breathe.

a reply to: 191stMIDET

I completely agree - not sure why anyone would "bug out" because of something like this. If it's as bad as people are saying we're screwed no matter where we go

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: 191stMIDET

I completely agree - not sure why anyone would "bug out" because of something like this. If it's as bad as people are saying we're screwed no matter where we go

Damn Skippy. I think it's tragically hilarious that some members hear about this revelation and instantly go to defensiveness about man caused climate change. The Earth has AGAIN decided to start killing off all the mold growing on it's surface (LIFE) and people are more concerned about there egos. Guess what, WE sped this process up by dumping # tons of pollution into our atmosphere over the last 200 years. Would something like Methane Appocolypse have happened again without humanity interfering? Obviously yes, BUT have Human Beings completely #%@$@# this planet otherwise? Yeah, pretty much. Do I feel guilty about having to make choices BEYOND MY CONTROL?? (Contributing to Earth's pollution) Hell No, I didn'the get to choose. We're all going to die, life on earth is doomed, you can't do anything about it. I'm going to make the best of what time we have left.

a reply to: 191stMIDET

Well, looks like I murdered another Post. Sorry. S&F

originally posted by: 191stMIDET
No. Methane will heat this planet up, everything will die. It's happened before, more than once, and it's happening again. I mentioned the Moon and Mars more as a reference, as in somewhere out there other than here. Obviously trying to live on Mars under it's supposed current conditions would be tough but atleast on Mars you could terraform. What is going to happen to Earth (Again) would make Terraforming impossible for hundreds of millions of years.

not much use in terraforming mars, it is still too hostile for humans.. atmospheric pressure alone means that anyone choosing to live on mars will always need to be in a pressure suit or pressurized cabin.

add in that mars basically has no magnetic field to protect surface dwellers from cosmic and solar radiation meaning they wont survive long unless they are underground.

mankind still has a better chance of survival on earth than anywhere else even in this scenario you are trying to paint.

Based on the status of where things with these vents are now, does anyone know how much time is left? Better yet, can anyone calculate how much time is left before things turn inhospitable?

a reply to: lostbook

I think that is a very difficult question to answer actually. But I've heard everything from a couple decades to a century being the range but who the hell knows.

In my opinion the best measure of how close or how far along we are is to just keep tracking the data of change for Ice Melting at the poles, atmospheric changes in CO2 and Methane and of course changes in natural events like weather, droughts, etc.

Keeping an eye on those patterns will probably give you the best idea about how bad things are, how fast their going and how long there is.

The problem is that it's not just that which is a problem. It's that combined with all the side effects and ways humanity reacts to them too. For example, as the oceans warm they release more methane which increases the warming but also is poisoning the air and water too. All these changes cause more fish to die off and algae and so on. This causes food shortage and crisis in the oceans. That causes panic in people, job loss, economic crashes, panic. You see what I mean?? Everything is tied to everything else and everything influences everything else and they are all little feedback loops that cause unexpected changes that you didn't even think about.

What's really bad is that there is such a desire and effort being made to just ignore it all and mock the whole idea or the issues that are having. Although, at this point it may be too late anyway so worrying about it might also be pointless too. I hate to say it, but if it's far past the point of doing anything then people may as well not know about it and drive humvees every day and kill the last tiger and every other horrible habit that people do. I can't in good conscious actually say that IS what people should do. But it may not make any difference anyway at this point so it's not like stressing over the last endangered white tiger is going to change anything anyway.

a reply to: mOjOm

Everything is tied to everything else and everything influences everything else and they are all little feedback loops that cause unexpected changes that you didn't even think about.

Exactly right. We call the ecosystem 'chaotic,' but chaotic is really just code for 'too complex to figure out exactly.'

The thing about feedbacks is, they can be positive (bad, because they contribute to a runaway effect) or negative (good because they stabilize the system), and they can be linear or non-linear. That is my argument in a nutshell: unless we understand the major contributors to the system, we cannot hope to make accurate predictions.

This thread just proves that point. We just discovered a major contribution to the equation. How many major contributions are left to be discovered? How many major feedbacks are unknown or misunderstood? According the track record of predictions, quite a few.

Should we keep looking and investigating? ABSOLUTELY! Should we scream, run around in circles, and cut our own throats whenever someone with a degree makes a SWAG? No. We know the planet has sustained life for hundreds of millions of years. That right there proves the system is inherently stable over previous disturbances.

But it may not make any difference anyway at this point so it's not like stressing over the last endangered white tiger is going to change anything anyway.

You do know "Captain Planet" was a cartoon, right?

I understand the spin du jour is that anyone who questions Global Warming also likes to club baby seals, clear-cut rainforest, and dance in air so full of smog they can't see their own nose... but it's a lie. I am 100% in favor of conservation of wildlife, I adamantly oppose rainforest destruction (and myself, personally, maintain 80 acres of virgin hardwood forest), I would love to see us off oil as a major energy source, I am very concerned about air pollution, and I am very upset over the destruction in Fukushima. I'm probably more of a 'tree-hugger' than you are... than 95% of the posters on here are.

But I am not concerned about carbon dioxide, at least not at the levels we are seeing. I trust nature. I don't have this insane urge to control it, especially considering it was here before the Europeans decided to poison the place.

Yeah, I know... that totally messes up the conversation.

Sorry.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: lostbook

I think that is a very difficult question to answer actually. But I've heard everything from a couple decades to a century being the range but who the hell knows.

In my opinion the best measure of how close or how far along we are is to just keep tracking the data of change for Ice Melting at the poles, atmospheric changes in CO2 and Methane and of course changes in natural events like weather, droughts, etc.

Keeping an eye on those patterns will probably give you the best idea about how bad things are, how fast their going and how long there is.

The problem is that it's not just that which is a problem. It's that combined with all the side effects and ways humanity reacts to them too. For example, as the oceans warm they release more methane which increases the warming but also is poisoning the air and water too. All these changes cause more fish to die off and algae and so on. This causes food shortage and crisis in the oceans. That causes panic in people, job loss, economic crashes, panic. You see what I mean?? Everything is tied to everything else and everything influences everything else and they are all little feedback loops that cause unexpected changes that you didn't even think about.

What's really bad is that there is such a desire and effort being made to just ignore it all and mock the whole idea or the issues that are having. Although, at this point it may be too late anyway so worrying about it might also be pointless too. I hate to say it, but if it's far past the point of doing anything then people may as well not know about it and drive humvees every day and kill the last tiger and every other horrible habit that people do. I can't in good conscious actually say that IS what people should do. But it may not make any difference anyway at this point so it's not like stressing over the last endangered white tiger is going to change anything anyway.

This is just as hard for me to hear as I'm sure it is for you to say, but this is exactly how I feel.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I know we have contributed to the planet warming up but I don't believe we are the major contributing factor.
The world in which the Dinosaurs lived in was much hotter than it is now, we are coming out of an ice age.
The problem we have is with the trapped gas which the ice age kept stored within the earth and we have reached the tipping point imo.
There was a good RT documentary which followed the local deer herders in Siberia and they have seen these sink holes appearing for a while. They know it's gas that is causing it because they hear it. One man said it sounded like a horn because the resonance of the gas coming out of the hole at high pressure.
This is what these sky trumpets are all about, they are massive gas releases worldwide.

This video was one of the 1st videos I seen that reported of the phenomenon back in 2011. Look at the end, there's a big flash then the sound stops. That is a gas release and the flash is it igniting imo.

a reply to: TheRedneck

No I see what you're saying. I agree that life does and will continue however saying it's been stable for hundreds of millions of years is misleading. Sure life has been around but not without major periods of extinctions too. Overall life will keep going but we are looking at a very likely die off coming that will wipe out all but a fraction of it that could take millions of years to bounce back.

I don't doubt that nature knows how to deal with this. But if we plan on being around to see it we need to figure out how to do it. Because we aren't special to nature. She will kill us off like any other creature all the same. We seem to be helping that along too. All the signs are there that big change is in our future so I'm just saying we should be planning for them if we want to make it through them. Or say screw it and let fate decide that is also a choice.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Should we keep looking and investigating? ABSOLUTELY! Should we scream, run around in circles, and cut our own throats whenever someone with a degree makes a SWAG? No. We know the planet has sustained life for hundreds of millions of years. That right there proves the system is inherently stable over previous disturbances.

The fear of mass hysteria is the reason why this isn't first page news. Hopefully, someone has a plan.

a reply to: mOjOm

Because we aren't special to nature. She will kill us off like any other creature all the same.

Yes, she will. But only if we choose for her to.

Humanity is an evolutionary enigma. We have no claws; we have fingernails that are brittle and fragile. Our teeth are not particularly dangerous, and our mouths won't open wide enough to use them as weapons. We can't run very fast compared to other creatures. Our bodies do not handle cold well, nor do they handle heat well.

We look like prey. But most prey species allow for that status by reproducing quickly. We don't. We take 12-14 years before we can reproduce, typically can have a single offspring in 10 months, and are helpless for at least a decade after birth.

So how did we take over the planet? Our ability to think.

Nature nurtures those species that can survive. She nurtured us, so apparently all we need to survive and be worthy of that nurture is the lump of grey matter between our ears. Intelligence is our key to survival. That ability we have to look at our surroundings and make sound decisions.

When I look at my surroundings, I see a self-regulating system that is too complex for me to play with. I see plenty of things that could hamper my ability to live in those surroundings...things like a lack of clean air due to deforestation, a lack of water due to groundwater pollution, or disease from accumulating refuse. I concern myself with those things, because I can comprehend the damage they cause, not from a purely mathematical framework, but from an intuitive and experimental framework.

Others look around and see claims of disaster from invisible gases that barely exist and ignore the pollution concerns. That is not intelligent thought; it is herd mentality. Even when evidence of questionable research surface, even when the data used is called into question, even when predictions fail, and, yes, even when those who claim intellectual superiority over their understanding of the ecology are surprised by major discoveries, the herd mentality persists. Just like the humble lemmings, they would happily follow their leaders off a cliff to certain death. Indeed, I would not be surprised to start hearing of suicides over fear of carbon dioxide, considering the level of propaganda pushed forth about it.

So, I ask you: do we follow the prey mentality of the herd, despite our inability to survive as pure herd animals? Or do we question, learn, reason, and consider like the intellectually superior creatures nature has shown us favor for being?

TheRedneck

a reply to: lostbook

Hopefully, someone has a plan.

Nature has a plan. I choose to be on nature's side, and to let nature handle nature's problems. If nature needs help, nature will let me know. Nature is telling me to keep the air and water clean, to stop clear-cutting, and to stop filling the land with garbage.

Nature is not telling me to tax carbon dioxide.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

It's way too complex for us to understand but there's no harm in trying to understand what is going on.
We are living an such an interesting time & I've been saying for years that there has been a shift in consciousness.
I felt it in myself and seen it in others around me, all of a sudden subjects that a had little to no interest to us, suddenly became of great importance. It resulted in me joining this site 10 years ago.
BTW I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on the CO2 tax, it's silly. Incentives for planting trees to offset CO2 would be a better option.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: AttitudeProblem

That's exactly right. The Permian Extinction was the largest global killer in history. If it happens again, which is what it looks like is happening, it is Game Over.

Too bad we can't yet Bug Out of it without somewhere else to go.

Once these other hydrocarbons start heating up the earth along with the CO2 it gets even faster and faster. I believe the Permian Extinction went to a 6 degree change and ended up killing something like 90% of all life on earth.

Enjoy the time you have still folks. Tell your kids and grand kids sorry you didn't take care of earth better before bringing them in to the world because they'll be the ones who suffer through most of it.

Oh C'mon.

First, scientists estimate the Permian extinction took place over a range of 200,000 to 1.5 million years. Your kids and their kids won't see it.

Second, how did humans cause the first extinction? What makes you think we're capable of causing a second? We caused a great earthquake that resulted in methane leaks at the bottom of the ocean?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: lostbook

Hopefully, someone has a plan.

Nature has a plan. I choose to be on nature's side, and to let nature handle nature's problems. If nature needs help, nature will let me know. Nature is telling me to keep the air and water clean, to stop clear-cutting, and to stop filling the land with garbage.

Nature is not telling me to tax carbon dioxide.

TheRedneck

Agreed. Nature has not asked for us to tax carbon and I don't think it will make much difference at this point anyway. Man has sped up a natural process which will lead to his own demise. Man is the one who can fix his error and maybe slow down the dangerous chain of events which is coming..

a reply to: lostbook

I don't think we are responsible, the fact this happens regularly in the planets history would suggest that it's cyclic in nature.
We have cleaned up our planet a lot in the last 30 years, yes we still have issues but people tend to forget that we are spinning through different regions of space at thousands of miles per hour.
The ancient civilisations were more aware of how travelling through different regions of space brought different challenges.

The entire solar system has been heating up for years, there are reasons for this that we don't understand.

Space.com

Was reading that article on space.com and noticed that 1 of the sources was a thread here on ATS 10 years ago.

ATS

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: lostbook

I don't think we are responsible, the fact this happens regularly in the planets history would suggest that it's cyclic in nature.
We have cleaned up our planet a lot in the last 30 years, yes we still have issues but people tend to forget that we are spinning through different regions of space at thousands of miles per hour.
The ancient civilisations were more aware of how travelling through different regions of space brought different challenges.

The entire solar system has been heating up for years, there are reasons for this that we don't understand.

Space.com

Was reading that article on space.com and noticed that 1 of the sources was a thread here on ATS 10 years ago.

ATS

Not saying we're responsible but we are speeding up the process. We've messed the environment up good. De-forestation, pollution, population overgrowth, etc....