Here we go again...Iran's a nuclear threat

Rubber,
You're missing my point here. I guess I should rephrase. Fundamental religion and WMD's don't mix. Is that better? All the countries you named, are not run foremost on religious laws or beliefs. None of those countries you named feel that, by their god's will, another country cannot exist. Those countries are run foremost by money. They would never use a nuclear weapon as a way to enforce god's will. No, not even Bush. Who is the biggest whore to money of all the world's leaders. No money to be made with a collapse in world economy brought on by nuclear war, is there? I guess what we have here, is a disagreement about the intentions and ability of Iran's fundamentalist clerics to make rational, responsible decisions in the best interest of their people before their god. I don't want to take that gamble when it comes to nuclear weapons. But I don't want to see another war either, I hope this is resolved diplomatically. I think (and hope) we will completely exhaust all peaceful means of resolving this long before any military action is taken.

Thank you for rephrasing that. Most of the arab countries are pissed at Israel more because of the fact that america and britain, with UN backing, took land from them and made Israel, because of our guilt over the holocaust.
As for the fundementalist ones i guess you mean Iran and the other ones ran by fanatics. it would be like giving a baby a shotgun. I dont think they are complete idiots though. after hiroshima and nagasaki i dont think many countries are willing to test americas resolve.

I dont think america should police the world though, thats the UNs job. America has Interfered with other peoples affairs since WWII. we are grateful for what america did then, but after that america did foolish things like vietnam and both gulf wars. they went from refusing to interfere with anyones affairs to interfering with everyones affairs.

I do see where you are coming from though and respect your opinion but Iran will probably give up there nuclear project like south africa did. It has no need for a nuclear project as it is not a super power or super power in the making nor allied to super powers.

Let America step back from the worlds police and let the UN do its job.

Originally posted by Rubber
Let America step back from the worlds police and let the UN do its job.

The UN any better? They arent above personal agendas or corruption apparently either. It gets so thick you can walk on it.

Originally posted by DrRobertCamp

What's with hate filled members choosing "Dr" as part of their name. It does nothing to bolster your credibility.

It's a superiority thing. You wouldn't understand being a self-proclaimed "eurocrat" and "socialist".

Where did I proclaim that? And Australia is nowhere near Europe. Not only that, but I do not need to add a ficticious title before my name to feel superior. There is nothing else I can do that will make you look like more of an idiot than you are already doing for yourself. Thankyou for saving me and others the effort.

Originally posted by Rubber
Thank you for rephrasing that. Most of the arab countries are pissed at Israel more because of the fact that america and britain, with UN backing, took land from them and made Israel, because of our guilt over the holocaust.

Rubber, looks like you should refresh your memory on the history of Israel.
"In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. " The Link for the above quote.

From what I have gathered from some of you is that if all countries had nukes we would end warfare. So we should let everyone have them. So lets have Russia and the US deliver and set up at least one nuke in every country. Russia and the US will show the other countries how to use the nukes and how to maintain them. That way we would no longer have to worry about war anymore. As a plus we will give Al Qaeda a brief case nuke so we can feel safe. Now don't you feel safe. Kinda gives you a warm and kozy feeling that mankind can now get along. Peace will ring out, what a joyous day it will be.

I am amazed at the intelligence of some of the other human beings sharing this planet with me.

Nuclear war by mistake
Technical glitches and the human factor
The nuclear powers claim that they have nuclear weapons only to discourage attacks and that they are not really meant to be used. But even though the weapons may not be used on purpose, there is always the risk that a nuclear war breaks out because of technical errors or human mistakes. The fear of a war by accident has been with us ever since nuclear weapons came into existence.

The risk is great that state governments misunderstand each other in an acute crisis, making decisions on the basis of insufficient information. Missiles fired from USA at Russia or vice versa can be tracked about 30 minutes before impact. The decision to use nuclear weapons must be made quickly, otherwise there is a risk that the weapons are eliminated before they can be launched. The scarcity of time creates a stressful situation, ruling out a well thought-through decision. A human being under stress is not fit for handling nuclear weapons and the risk for a mistake is dramatic. Since a human cannot possibly establish the verity of the attack, make the decision and then give the orders in just half an hour, the human has to rely heavily on computers under such pressure. It is a disconcerting thought that the question of war or peace and the existence of the world might depend on whether or not a computer works as it should. To be sure, the technical security has improved a lot during later years, but the human factor remains.



Measures to prevent nuclear war by mistake
The Cuba crisis, that had the world on the edge of its seat during six days of 1962, put the spotlight on the risk for a nuclear war by mistake. USA demanded that the Soviet Union dismantle its missile bases on Cuba and both sides had their fingers on the nuclear trigger. As a result of the Cuba crisis, several agreements were made for enhanced security, such as the 1963 treaty about the hot-line between Moscow and Washington.

In 1971, the Soviet Union and the USA also made an agreement about measures to decrease the risk for war by mistake. The parties would inform each other about all test firings of missiles as well as accidents, to preclude their being misconstrued as an attack.

Another safeguard is that the nuclear charges have been constructed in such a way as to prevent a nuclear explosion being caused by break-down, fire or shelling. The parties have also both set up blocks against unauthorised use of the weapons (Permissive Action Links, or PALs). Accompanying top state managers is always a case, from which a secret, coded signal can be sent to enable the launching of the weapons. Thus, to open the locks, top government authorisation is required.

False alarms not uncommon
The great nuclear powers have extensive systems of satellites and radar stations to warn them of enemy attacks. False alarms are very common in USA and are caused by for example fires, weapon test firings, electronic disturbances or other errors. A few times a year, the alarms are more serious. On one occasion, an exercise program with a Soviet nuclear attack was fed into the US monitoring system and during the five minutes that passed before the mistake was discovered, the preparedness of the nuclear forces was elevated.

On January 25, 1995, Russia came close to ordering a nuclear attack. A signal appeared on Russian military radars indicating that a missile had been launched from off the coast of Norway. The Russian military suspected that it might be a nuclear missile from a US submarine aimed at Moscow. The alarm reached president Yeltsin, who for the first time activated the “nuclear case” that contains the launch codes. Within a matter of minutes, he had to decide whether or not to order the launch of nuclear missiles. After about eight minutes, the missile had clearly entered a less threatening trajectory and the alarm was called off. Further investigation revealed that the missile had been launched for scientific purposes. Information about the planned launch had been given but had failed to reach the right people.

New nuclear powers
As nuclear weapons appear to become a part of the arsenals of additional countries, the risk for a nuclear war by mistake increases, since the technical control systems of the new nuclear powers are less advanced than those of the established nuclear powers.

Are you stilll sure it is okay for Iran to get nukes? Remember Iran is sitting on one of the largest reserves of energy this planet has that everyone relies on. I do not know about you guys but I like having modern conviences that would be greatly diminished if Iran and Israel decided to nuke each other. Also the shock of the nuke exchange would cause a severe economic shock that would casue widespread unemployment. I am for stopping new countries from getting nukes while reducing the ones that the world already has.

I think if those of you proclaiming "Islam" as "peace" shoud actually do some research. I not religious in anyway, and I understand that all religions have skeletons in the closet, but I also have done my own DD and I understand that "Islam" is the WORST religion practiced. The sooner this is dealt with, the sooner we can move on to dealing with other things on this planet.

If we leave this "plague" alone, we and our children will regret it in the long-term. I have first hand experience of what Islam can do to a person, it's time some of you got out there and found out yourselves

Just my 2 cents worth, like everyone else's here

Yes, 2 Cents, Thats just a bit more than I would pay for that heap of GARBAGE! Islam is a peaceful religion... I know you may be a "noob" but the ATS slogan is Deny IGNORANCE!!

What you said was one of the most ignorant things ive EVER HEARD!!!

Just because some terrorists come from some Islamic countries everyone says Islam one of the WORST religions EVER and say everyone worshiping it should die?? What about the IRA?? Thats a TERRORIST GROUP from a CHRISTAN COUNTRY; I dont see you going "OH! All Christians are EVIL! They should ALL DIE!!!!"

You are extreamly ignorant and stupid to even think such a thing - OPEN YOUR EYES AND STOP FOLLOWING THE SHEEP!!!!!!!!

Hmm, I agree with the squid.
Islam is a Religion of peace. the fact that some people claiming to be muslim do things like 9/11 does not mean the religion is evil.

Islam is a strict religion with laws, stealing gets your hand choppd off, but thats beacuse theyve been set in stone for over a thousand years. Do not discriminate against people because of their religion as that is the act of a complete moron and last time i checked discrimination was illegal.

the world has no time for racism it just doesnt know it yet.

so will people please stop the Islam-bashing as it is anti-productive. and while were on the subject of racism, america is one of the most racist countries in the world even though its first amendment inludes freedom of religion.

I never said give every country in the world nukes did i? i said i dont think anyone should have nukes. and just a point, the theory behind building a nuclear bomb is simple, you can find instructions for building one on the internet as it isnt really classified information. the only hard part is the materials.

maybe if i go for the hippy approach you people will listen to me and understand what i say...

didnt mean to post anything sorry.

[edit on 26-1-2005 by Sep]

Make love not war, condoms are cheaper than guns.....Flower power....Stop the bomb...

Jesus, Iran needs nukes as much as i do, oh and the US.

NO ONE NEEDS NUKES

Just my opinion but meh.

Sorry about the hippy s*** at the top.

Edit: Punctuation

[edit on 26/1/05 by Rubber]

Originally posted by Rubber
Hmm, I agree with the squid.
Islam is a Religion of peace. the fact that some people claiming to be muslim do things like 9/11 does not mean the religion is evil.

I don't think the religion is evil, but many of it's followers are so angry and hateful toward our culture, they become evil. Please read the article, if you have not already, quoting many of Iran's leaders, on this thread (my third post down):

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Tell me what you think, as England is directly mentioned as well.

Ignore those who believe Islam itself is "evil", or the Arab or Persian races are all "evil", because they are not. There are many good human beings among them. Some practices of Islam have no place in a civilized world, as you yourself have pointed out some:

Islam is a strict religion with laws, stealing gets your hand choppd off, but thats beacuse theyve been set in stone for over a thousand years.

Just because something has been set in stone since the dark ages, does not mean we must respect it and allow it to continue, these are human rights violations, we cannot as a civilized world let them stand. We must not destroy Islam, but bring it into the civilized world. What if your child was caught stealing in one of these countries? Bet you wouldn't be defending it so feverishly then, would you?

Do not discriminate against people because of their religion as that is the act of a complete moron and last time i checked discrimination was illegal.

I agree, but the coin has two sides, don't allow people to cast aside all human decency, and commit horribly violent acts, in the name of religious law, also the act of a complete moron. When people are being grossly mistreated and brutalized, not because of Islam, but because of those who interpret it, it is our duty as decent human beings to step in. I guess that's just the "American" in me, and it will never go away.

so will people please stop the Islam-bashing as it is anti-productive. and while were on the subject of racism, america is one of the most racist countries in the world even though its first amendment inludes freedom of religion.

I know you're not including me in "people", right? Because I've never bashed Islam, my problem is with extreme Islam, actually any extremism that causes others to suffer. I don't believe any extremists should have nuclear weapons, Christian, Muslim, well maybe extreme Bhuddists, they should have ALL the nuclear weapons. They would know what to do with them, and I think we both know what they would do with them.

As for the hippie approach, I'm with you, so let's smoke a joint!

First of all, are you a muslim yourself? Secondly, have you done any research within this subject area, or have anu experience AT ALL? Most likely you haven't, you are just repeating what has been said to you.

Unless you are willing to discuss the subject and provide proof that Islam is a religion of peace, don't tell me otherwise. If you are want proof that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, just ask.

I have a question, and I would be grateful if it is answered. Especially by Americans. Here it is:

Since all countries are equal, why Iran can't have nukes but Israel can?

Simple! In most countries, it is highly unlikely fanatics will get in to power ie. Islamic-extremists, unlike in Iran and other Islamic countries. What do you think would happen if Iran built several nuclear devices?

Don't forget, this is a country that supports terrorism and has declared that it will destroy Isreal and its supporters with any means necessary - no doubt including WMDs - with no regard to the after effects.

These are also the same people who think dieing for Allah guarantees them a place in heaven with 72 virgins (or some such number). These dogs have no respect for life, hence why they can blow up innocent women and children, and cut peoples heads off.

I'd rather not risk it TBH - would you honestly risk your families lives on these types of people having "the bomb"?

Originally posted by NoobCommando
Simple! In most countries, it is highly unlikely fanatics will get in to power ie. Islamic-extremists, unlike in Iran and other Islamic countries. What do you think would happen if Iran built several nuclear devices?

Why are you so sure that these people will throw nukes on America? Couldn't it be that they simply want nukes as a scare tactic? Just like US, France, Britain, China, India and Pakistan.

Don't forget, this is a country that supports terrorism and has declared that it will destroy Isreal and its supporters with any means necessary - no doubt including WMDs - with no regard to the after effects.

Does it officially support terrorism? i.e. was there an Iranian government statement on CNN (for example) on terrorist threats? I think that North Korea sounds more dangerous, yet USA seems very reluctant to fight them.

I think the 'terrorist' bit has been overplayed by western media. Yes, there are terrorists based in Iran. But not the official government. They know that they will be anihillated if they ever try something funny.

As for Israel, it's their problem. USA is far away.

These are also the same people who think dieing for Allah guarantees them a place in heaven with 72 virgins (or some such number). These dogs have no respect for life, hence why they can blow up innocent women and children, and cut peoples heads off.

Aren't you putting all eggs in the same basket? from the 2 billions of muslims, there is a handful of thousands that are that fanatic.

I'd rather not risk it TBH - would you honestly risk your families lives on these types of people having "the bomb"?

Sure, I'd rather not risk it too. But I would like to see a real threat, based on real data.

Well, in Masterp, Noobcommando please stop being so racist.

Growing up i had quite a few Islamic friends and have researched it.

No im not Muslim, im agnostic.

And what you mean by Experienced Islam you mean the crazy fanatics who blow themelves up supposedly in the name of Islam.

To them i say: You bunch of f***ing dumbasses.

I wasnt including you in the Islam bashers 27jd and how the hell did bush win the election??? the monkey boy should be shot.

Edit: spacing

[edit on 27/1/05 by Rubber]

Originally posted by NoobCommando
First of all, are you a muslim yourself? Secondly, have you done any research within this subject area, or have anu experience AT ALL? Most likely you haven't, you are just repeating what has been said to you.

Unless you are willing to discuss the subject and provide proof that Islam is a religion of peace, don't tell me otherwise. If you are want proof that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, just ask.

First of all NO I am NOT a muslim, or religious in anyway, I for one am against the concept of religions... But I respect others beliefs, Secondly, I have studied Religion closely, to be able to form a respectable view on religions, so I can maintain my views that the concept of religions are wrong.

To me the concept of religions are wrong, because you will ALWAYS get extreamists, or arguements over religion.

But however, it is true than a fair ammount of muslims hate Western culture, there are a fair few reasons for this;
1 - America and its allies are always pushy to them "do as I say or you will pay..." this kind of thing, this is why they are condeming American culture, and America's allies cultures, because they are unfairly treating the Islamic Countries.
2 - You are condeming them as evil etc etc...
and
3 - Along time ago a thing named "The Crusades" took place, which was when Christians went to war with Islam for no reason other than they were Islamic, To be honest in quite suprised Islams arn't calling CHRISTIANS "evil"!!

No matter what religion you will always get extreamists! So quit picking on just 1 religion because properganda is pointing the finger at Islam, if anything they are mad because WE started it!!


(EDIT) P.S - Any so called "proof" that you get off the internet that they are violent people who are evil and should die, Its almost definitly biased!!

[edit on 27-1-2005 by The_Squid]

I am also Agnostic, and truly against any organized religion, with the exact same reasons as yourself. I also have studied the major religions (Christianity, Islam, etc.). All my research was done on the source, so unless the source is biased against itself, then it ain't biased.

Have you read the Qu'ran? Have you been to the middle east?

Just a few questions before I continue...

Originally posted by The_Squid
(EDIT) P.S - Any so called "proof" that you get off the internet that they are violent people who are evil and should die, Its almost definitly biased!!

What I provided was not proof they are violent people who are evil and should die. What I provided were direct quotes from the leaders, documented in several Iranian media sources, you may check the facts if you wish. My concern is what these leaders are on the record as saying, I pay no attention to any opinion included in the article. I have no problems with Islam, just this particularly fanatic regime obtaining nuclear weapons. If you want a muslim counter balance to Israel, let Egypt have nukes.