Hydrogen Fuel May Not Be So 'Clean'

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posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by XL5
Why not use as few steps as possible and save the energy thats wasted in chemical/element to energy conversions and just use electricity? They just need to increase the energy to weight ratio, then every thing will use a capacitor instead of a battery.

Solar and wind would become options if you could store the power with alot less loss then batteries or hydrogen.


Fundamental problem......the world is AC, batteries and capacitors are DC. Inverters and rectifiers are very inefficient.



XL5

posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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Inverters are 90% effn., capacitors are 95-98% effn. . You don't need an inverter in the car, you use a bank of capacitors to give you 100+ volts DC and run it through 4-6 E-tek 15HP motors (90-97% effn.).



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 06:00 PM
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What about Aquafuel? Here are the links you be the judge... I have actually built and tested the proof of concept(its very simple and if you scrounge completely free) and it works, trying to scale up now.

www.blazelabs.com...
www.santillimagnegas.com...

FYI This is NOT electrolysis it is something different. The gas is COH2. When used in a propane fuel generator all it needs to combusts is 5 parts O2 per 1 part of COH2. Here are the emmissions tests.



Even though it emmits more CO2 then Gasoline the extra O2 offsets this in my opinion.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 06:54 PM
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Hey, can the O2 be supplied with a "safer" gas like Nox?


XL5

posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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Hmmm, but you still need to use a battery to get the aqua fuel. Whats holding you back from adding an alternator, Sard?
It uses carbon rods I think, how big are these rods and how fast are they used up? Can the reaction be throttled or can the engine run at idle with no misses?



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by XL5
Inverters are 90% effn., capacitors are 95-98% effn. . You don't need an inverter in the car, you use a bank of capacitors to give you 100+ volts DC and run it through 4-6 E-tek 15HP motors (90-97% effn.).


Capacitors have an extremely low energy output for their weight/size. This idea is impractical to the extreme.


XL5

posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 03:40 AM
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Have you looked into ultra capacitors, Starwars? I'm sure one of those 100W scooters could still go far using a 30-40lb ultra capacitor. I mean, develop new types of thin insulating films to use in the capacitors and develop them beyond what they are at today.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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There are plenty of emerging technologies that would make this point moot. Check it out:

www.pureenergysystems.com...

-P


Originally posted by mwm1331

by DRfunk While hydrogen extraction would require massive amounts of energy to meet the worlds demands, do not think that it would take the same amount of fossil fuels in cars today to make it,

Your right it wouldn't take as much, it would take more. The fact is were all cars to switch to fuel cells tomorrow the level of pollution in the air would rise.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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XL5 and Dr.Horacid

1. Dr. Horacid, I would imagine that the answer would be YES.

2. XL5, the Aquafuel Reactor just makes the GAS which then you would have to feed into a generator which can burn a gasous fuel like propane. All you would really need to do is change the mixture ratio of COH2 - 02 to 5 -1 ratio mixture. The carbon rods can be of any size, as for the decay rate when I did my tests 2 rod did the trick. BTW Just so you guys know, the "Proof of Concept" has nothing to do with generating electricity just the gas. Here is what I built.

members.fortunecity.com...








Note these are not my pictures. I do plan however to take videos and photographs IF i manage to set it up to a Propane generator with it producing electricity. That part is alot hard then what I built above.

[edit on 28-1-2005 by sardion2000]


XL5

posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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So you need propane as well? I wouldn't consider it aqua "fuel" then.

As for carbon rod consumption, I mean, how fast do they get used up?
If the water and carbon are the fuel and the electricity is not what powers it, then I'd make it too, I have every thing I'd need.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by XL5
So you need propane as well? I wouldn't consider it aqua "fuel" then.

As for carbon rod consumption, I mean, how fast do they get used up?
If the water and carbon are the fuel and the electricity is not what powers it, then I'd make it too, I have every thing I'd need.


You didn't listen. I said it can be used with Propane Generators, you have obviosly not clicked and read any of the links so I guess I'm gonna have to quote *sigh*

jlnlabs.online.fr...



The BingoFuel Reactor (*) uses ordinary tap water and low voltage electrical energy for producing a synthetic gas. A high temperature ( 3000-4000°C ) plasma is generated underwater by an electrical arc between carbon electrodes. The BingoFuel Reactor produces a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen (COH2) and this gas can burn very cleanly in oxygen or air, and so it can be used as fuel for an internal combustion engine. When burned, COH2 produces carbon dioxide and water vapor, so it generates very little, if any, pollution to the environnement.


THIS IS WHAT I AM CURRENTLY TRYING TO BUILD



Did that clear up any confusion on your part?


XL5

posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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A propane generator that produces propane? Or is it a generator that uses propane? If it is a generator that uses propane and has a piston, rings, crank, flywheel and sparkplug, then you can use any old 4 stroke. You may have to moddifiy the venturi and mess with the inlet pressure, but its possible.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by XL5
A propane generator that produces propane? Or is it a generator that uses propane? If it is a generator that uses propane and has a piston, rings, crank, flywheel and sparkplug, then you can use any old 4 stroke. You may have to moddifiy the venturi and mess with the inlet pressure, but its possible.


Aren't you listening?
When did I ever say this devise produced propane I didn't... The Plasma produces a synthetic gas composed of Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen(Called Aquafuel). The H2 is split from H20 and bonds with the C which decays from the carbon rods in either a feeder setup with tungsten electrodes or using the carbon rods as electrodes themselves plus with the oxygen in the water that C bonds with O and H2 to make COH2 or Aquafuel Then you can either choose to store the gas, which is the same way as you store propane or use it in either a propane generator, a propane car, a furnace, a propane BBQ whatever. Get IT? Sorry for being blunt but its getting frustrating as I thought I was speaking pretty clearly and proving all the links needed for you and Dr. H to understand this technology.



[edit on 28-1-2005 by sardion2000]


XL5

posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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Whoa, hey I never heard of a generator that runs on propane, so I though you meant a generator that makes propane (somehow). Even so, a normal gass engine can be used, there cant be too much difference in a propane engine then in a gas 4 stroke ( the carb would be different though).

I'm not attacking you, you can stop being deffencive
.



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by XL5
Whoa, hey I never heard of a generator that runs on propane, so I though you meant a generator that makes propane (somehow). Even so, a normal gass engine can be used, there cant be too much difference in a propane engine then in a gas 4 stroke ( the carb would be different though).

I'm not attacking you, you can stop being deffencive
.


I am so sorry about that, I know you weren't attacking me I just was getting impatient with...everything. You've heard and seen all thats happened today, I was a lil jumpy, hope you understand. So Sorry.

EDIT: A gas engine would still need to be retrofitted as Gasoline is a liquid no? This gas still needs to be under a slight amount of pressure to store safely. Not sure how much compression it can take though.

[edit on 29-1-2005 by sardion2000]


XL5

posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 02:05 AM
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It depends on how fast the gas is generated and how fast the engine sucks it in. The gas inlet would be made like a propane torch, then you would drill a number of small holes to get the right ratio, then put that into the air intake.

Hey np, but I have to ask, whats going on around here? Pisky isn't whipping people with pixysticks is he?



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 02:28 AM
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According to this link here

At 30 Volts and 5400 Watts Gas output = 6.5 L/min Mixture Output(5:1) = 40 L/Min with the engine running at 3600 rpm.



This is the basic schematic that I am following in trying to create first the reactor then either figure out a way to integrate it into a generator or just use regular propane storage methods to achieve containment. Don't know the Volume to RPM ratio this fuel has but with the tests and experiments I plan on running hopefully I will have more details in the coming year. Unfortunetly this is only a hobby for me as I have a full time career but I always encourage other people to try out thier own models and share. I really think this might be an ideal fuel for alot of people. I can see rural areas with alot of water benefitting greatly. It may not replace gasoline buts its an alternative if it can be developed to the point where a commercial product will be released.



Hey np, but I have to ask, whats going on around here? Pisky isn't whipping people with pixysticks is he?


Gawd I wish. Check your U2U Inbox, I sent you something that explains it all. Fairly disturbing actually....

[edit on 29-1-2005 by sardion2000]



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 02:42 AM
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Electricity can be made in so many other non polluting ways. You can use dams, solar power, wind power, free energy machines, or even a Transmiter like the one almost completed by tesla.



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 04:50 AM
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You can use dams,


Dams may not pollute by producing electricty but thier construction causes major ecological destruction as it usually requires flooding vast areas of land as is the case in chinas new dam...


XL5

posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 05:42 AM
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I don't think you can collect just the gas if its air tight and theres no air in it (should read gas tight). I have 2 1/2" copper coated carbon rods, I'll see how much gas it makes when I don't feel lazy lol.

Dirty tactics seem to be the norm now, we could just do the preacher routine on thier site or just expose members who are with this hate group and let the people here tell them what they think lol.





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