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Is This Really a Democracy......??

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posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Check out, faithless electors.

21 states do not have faithless elector laws, that's 21 states that can ignore the popular vote.

There have been 157 occurrences of faithless electors ignoring their popular vote and, according to the National Archive, not once in history has there ever been a punishment. Having laws and rules bears no meaning if nobody has ever been punished...

Please follow me on this example. The majority of the people in Wyoming, lets say 53%, vote for candidate A. The elector from Wyoming then votes for candidate B. That elector just blatantly ignored the will of the majority of the people in his state. And that elector will not be punished for it. That's not democracy.

Would it encroach on state sovereignty to force their electors to vote for who the majority actually voted for in their states? Sure. But, in this one instance which would re-instill democracy in the presidential election, is that a bad thing? If you honestly think it is, how?

I'm not trying to be obtuse. I want to believe there is some fairness in the election. Presidents get elected that loose the popular vote. I watched Bush loose the popular vote and become president anyway and that, to me, felt wrong when it happened. When the majority of people in this country speak, it should be listened to.




posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

And people call americans uneducated...
We are not a democracy as so many others have pointed out
lolololol
It would be like saying the UK is a monarchy...you guys still worship the royal family right?



posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 02:33 PM
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USA is not a Democracy. The only thing that will save us is changing the law to take away the Electoral College and changing us to a direct democracy. 1 person = 1 real vote. Then Term limits to 2 for all of Congress. Then all primaries are open. Then making it much easier to get ballot access for congress and president. Lastly. All debates must be 4 candidates or all avaliable. That would fix us.



posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: Noncents
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Check out, faithless electors.


And if you go through that list you will see that most of the time they have casted their vote for the losing candidate.



posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: Noncents

My comments were meant to inform.

I am of the opinion that the averge person is who tends to be loudest in political debates, and the average person is an idiot. If you allow the average person to determine the course of a nation, the best that nation can ever be is average.

I think the goal should be to have an equitable system that provides equality (not equity). Meaning, we all are given the same start and same opportunities, with the only limit being us and fate.

I think the electoral college system has its flaws. BUt a direct democracy via popular vote....it has its problems, too. Like the fact that us country folk (you know, the ones who provide all the food, oil, and textiles for this country) would be grossly under represented. I guarantee a civil war in this scenario.



posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If each person of a state has the same chance to vote, barring restrictions that would make someone ineligible, and that vote was represented correctly by an electoral college elector, how would that create under-representation?

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm understanding how that could happen. The system we currently have where the popular vote can be ignored seems like under-representation on a wide scale. Using the same example from before, if 53% of a state votes for candidate A and the elector votes for candidate B that's a 53% of the state under-represented.

If the electors had to follow the majority vote in their states and each vote was weighed the same across the board then that would be a 1:1 representation rate. Everyone equal.

I'm only talking about the presidential election process. I'm definitely not the guy to talk to about the rest of the system.



posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: Noncents
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If each person of a state has the same chance to vote, barring restrictions that would make someone ineligible, and that vote was represented correctly by an electoral college elector, how would that create under-representation?

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm understanding how that could happen. The system we currently have where the popular vote can be ignored seems like under-representation on a wide scale. Using the same example from before, if 53% of a state votes for candidate A and the elector votes for candidate B that's a 53% of the state under-represented.

If the electors had to follow the majority vote in their states and each vote was weighed the same across the board then that would be a 1:1 representation rate. Everyone equal.

I'm only talking about the presidential election process. I'm definitely not the guy to talk to about the rest of the system.


By nature of what we do out in the country, we have a much lower population density. We also have a much smaller economy, with lower costs and labor. Not to mention the much more conservative social values.

Lets take Illinois as our example: just about the entire state is agricultural in nature, with vast swaths of corn and sorghum fields spreading across state borders into its neighbors. Then there is Chicago. And based on what Chicago wants to have happen, the rest of the state follows suit.

Another way to look at it: out here in West Texas our roads are falling apart. The reason: heavy truck traffic extracting minerals (oil) in the region. They aren't repaired because road funding is allocated based on population. We have one of the lower population densities in the nation out here....so our roads just continue to crumble. It gets worse down by Iraan and McCamey. THey have almost no one living out there, with enormous amounts of oil being extracted.

We are under represented. The people of Illinois (outside of Chicago) are under represented as well. I suspect that the majority of New York state is, as well. Lord knows, NYC pushes its weight around on the rest of the country enough. All because of the higher population density creating a higher economic density.

If the folks in the country continue to be ignored it won't be pretty for the folks in the city. And it will lead to civil war.



posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

A sincere thank you to you, sir.

I think you're right and I hadn't considered population / economic density at all. Still, there has to be a more fair way to do it than the broken unenforced system we have now.

I've been putting together a thread about the end of the Benghazi investigation, it essentially ended last night. Supposedly the president said one of the biggest failures of his presidency was not planning for the day after Gaddafi was killed. I think if things get ugly in the future, the people will have that same concern. I don't think we're ready for the day after.

It's been a great conversation and I've got a lot to think about. For now, I'm off to soak up that awesome anon thread. ETA: Glad I had it open in another tab.

Peace and good will to you and yours.


edit on 19-10-2016 by Noncents because: They killed an amazing thread.



posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: Lice000
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

And people call americans uneducated...
We are not a democracy as so many others have pointed out
lolololol
It would be like saying the UK is a monarchy...you guys still worship the royal family right?


READ THE THREAD!!!!

I quite clearly say:



So the idea that America is a democracy is fundamentally wrong its actually a Republic



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