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NEWS: Colorado Church Buries Hundreds Of Aborted Fetuses Ashes

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posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 05:19 AM
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On the day after the 32nd anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Courts Roe Vs. Wade ruling, a Roman Catholic church buried the ashes of hundreds of aborted fetuses. The mortuary that had been hired to cremate and bury the fetuses, has for years given the remains to the Sacred Heart of Mary Church. The Church has returned some of the fetuses and scaled back its plans to bury 1000. The church wants to provide burial and a place for the women who had the procedure to come and mourn.
 



story.news.yahoo.com[/u rl]
BOULDER, Colo. - A Roman Catholic church buried the ashes of hundreds of aborted fetuses Sunday, a day after the 32nd anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) decision that made abortion legal, drawing criticism that the church was exploiting women's grief to make a political statement.


A crowd of 250 parishioners prayed as the ashes were buried in the Sacred Heart of Mary Church cemetery, while a handful of protesters gathered nearby holding signs that read, "This church is a grave robber."


A mortuary hired by the abortion clinic to dispose of the fetuses had been giving the ashes to the church for years to be buried at a memorial. Dr. Warren Hern, clinic director, said he had no idea such an arrangement had been made and said his contract required the mortuary to bury the ashes in its own plot.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Okay, as some of the protesters outside of the sham ceremony stated: "The church is a grave robber" Thats is exactly what they did. The mortuary was bound by contract to bury the remains in cemetery and chose not to do so. Apparently this has been going on for years and this is the first time it has been public. Included in the remains were those of miscarriages. No doubt as these fanatics would term them abortions from god.

[edit on 1/24/05 by FredT]




posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
The mortuary was bound by contract to bury the remains in cemetery and
chose not to do so. miscarriages.... No doubt as these fanatics would term
them abortions from god.


The mortuary did indeed bury the remains ... it had the church do
the actual burial and since there was a marker, and it was on church
'holy' grounds ... it was a cemetary. Perhaps the contract should
have been more clear as to the exact burial details, but where the
children were buried is indeed a 'cemetary' by no stretch of the
imagination.

I am pro-life and I do not call miscarriages 'abortions from God'.
I know of no pro-lifer who does.

Also, the women I know who have had early miscarriages (first
trimester) have requested the remains to bury themselves. Later
miscarriages and still births have been buried through funeral homes.

What exactly is the abortuary upset about? The contract was
honored. They consider the murdered children not to be children
or else they wouldn't have killed them ... so if they are just medical
waste then what's the big deal? For the abortuary to scream that
the churchyard burial is somehow disrespectful to the dead children
is a sick joke. They are really just upset that people will take notice
that the dead children really are CHILDREN and not medical waste.

I don't buy the abortuaries complaints for a minute. They are just
being self serving in their whine - worried that people might see
that the dead children are just that - children - and not medical
waste. Their complaints ring hollow.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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I have a collection of toenail clippings and collected urine they can mourn too.

What with cloning advances today, literally millions of potential me's are simply wasting away in small jars stacked to the attic rafters.

Someone should mourn the lost souls of the Armies of Me.

Or get to cloning.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
a Roman Catholic church buried the ashes of hundreds of aborted fetuses.

How nice that a religion that insists that those unbaptised things are going to spend eternity in limbo should but their smoldering remains in the ground. So thoughtful.

Do they expect miscarriages to be given burial rites too? Maybe unattached zygotes cna be awared 'get out of hell free' certificates from the pope.

Yesh, next they'll be mourning cancerous stem cell tumours, or left over bone marrow transplant material.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
I have a collection of toenail clippings and collected urine they can mourn too.

Mods are weird.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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I'm reminded of how much I HATE the term "pro-life". It presumes that everyone who doesn't agree is anti-life (or pro-death).

I'm pro-life but not 100% anti-abortion...although I do think the abortion window (aside from medical necessity) should be severely shortened. Women's rights to make decisions about their own bodies is all well & good, but abortion shouldn't be seen as a means of birth control. There many reasons for this, to include the fact that all operations carry a degree of risk, they're a drain on medical resources, and drive up insurance costs. And, of course, because no one knows when "life" truly begins. (I suspect it's at or around conception, but this is impossible to prove...)

There are plenty of good arguments against abortion without dragging religion into it...



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:24 AM
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I see it as a religious statement by pro life supporters to condemn the pro choice supporters is all for the cause.

Now the people that had the abortions should be the ones doing a law suit against the crematory, but the Pro life supporters knows very well that they will tried to keep their names and privacy intact so they will not do it.

Perhaps the pro life supporters should take the ashes and make shrines in their back yard with them.


Or perhaps they should get all together and performed another ritual and anoint themselves with the ashes.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by RANT


Someone should mourn the lost souls of the Armies of Me.

Or get to cloning.


More than one RANT?!?
RUN AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, it does look like a statement. I commend them on their originality in making that statment.

[edit on 1-24-2005 by Valhall]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan What exactly is the abortuary upset about? The contract was
honored. They consider the murdered children not to be children
or else they wouldn't have killed them ... so if they are just medical
waste then what's the big deal? For the abortuary to scream that
the churchyard burial is somehow disrespectful to the dead children
is a sick joke. They are really just upset that people will take notice
that the dead children really are CHILDREN and not medical waste.

I don't buy the abortuaries complaints for a minute. They are just
being self serving in their whine - worried that people might see
that the dead children are just that - children - and not medical
waste. Their complaints ring hollow.


I think anti-abortionists have this mistaken idea that all women who have abortions do so nonchalantly. This is not the case, especially in this situation.

The clinic for which this public spectacle was inflicted specializes in performing the procedure on fetuses with fatal abnormalities. The women that go through these pregnancy terminations suffer extreme mental trauma and pain because these pregnancies are wanted, but the fetuses are not viable. Going through this experience is horrible and causes long-lasting mental anguish--I have gone through this in my own family and even years later, it is still something that is painful.

The women that went through this have suffered enough. It is a private experience that is being dealt with amongst their family. These fetuses were not considered "medical waste" (did you even read the story?)--this doctor arranged for a private, discreet burial at a designated plot (medical waste is not disposed of this way.)

Some women may have their own ceremonies, but some do not--is this really an indicator of how much grief a person is in? Should women that choose to have their doctor bury the remains be condemned as being 'immoral' and deserving of public humiliation? How do you know if these women are even Catholic or Christian--what if they don't believe in religious ceremony? I really don't think that this is anyone else's business and it is certainly not yours or anyone else's place to judge.

These insensitive and selfish religious zealots took it upon themselves to create a spectacle purely for political reasons, not taking into account the women who are already grieving from losing a baby.

Calling these women "murderers" is cruel and ignorant. Losing a baby is not something that any women wants to happen--and it certainly isn't something that she wants to become a public event.

I'm sure that a lawsuit will follow as the mortuary that the doctor hired to bury these womens' fetuses is in violation of their contract as they decided, on their own, that these women would want these fetuses buried at this church. An even more egregious violation occurred this year when the church decided to make the ceremony public to make an obvious stand against abortion.

However, a lawsuit will not heal the crime that has been perpetrated against these grieving women. This hateful behavior is certainly not Christian and inflicting further pain upon women who have just lost a baby is a heinous crime.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
I have a collection of toenail clippings and collected
urine they can mourn too.


Now THAT is just medical waste. Or perhaps in your
case, Rant, it's toxic medical waste and needs special
disposal.


Now about that 'collected urine' .... is this like Howard
Hughes? Do you save thousands of jars of it around
the house like he did? Inquiring minds want to know ...



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
How nice that a religion that insists that those unbaptised things
are going to spend eternity in limbo should but their smoldering
remains in the ground. So thoughtful.

Do they expect miscarriages to be given burial rites too? Maybe
unattached zygotes cna be awared 'get out of hell free' certificates
from the pope.


They aren't 'unbaptised THINGS' ... they are children.

Catholic teaching about Limbo is different from Hell, Heaven,
and Purgatory. Limbo does not equal Hell. It's a totally different
place. Limbo is a happy place but it is a place where the person
does not see God face to face. A 'lesser' heaven if you will. However
the Catholic Church doesn't say that murdered pre-born children and
those miscarried go to Limbo because they aren't baptised. There are
different kinds of baptism that the Catholic Church believes in ...
water, blood, desire, martyrdom, and three more that I can't remember
off the top of my head. The babies that have died through abortion
or miscarriage have indeed been baptised - in the case of abortion
it is baptism in blood much as the 'Holy Innocents' (feast - Dec 28)
died in a baptism of blood in their innocence. In the case of miscarriage,
it's baptism of desire - the parents desire that their child be baptised
and/or the thought that if the child had lived he/she would have wished
to be baptised.

Yes, miscarriages should be given burial when the parents are able
to do so. Miscarried children are named. At least, it is Catholic teaching
to name the miscarried child since the child was indeed a child and a
soul. I know many people who have buried their miscarried children.
I know many who wished to have their children buried, but the doctor
refused to allow them to have their childs remains to bury.

Zygots have no need of a 'get out of hell free' card from the pope
since they are not going to hell in the first place and the Catholic
church definately doesn't teach that they do.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
I'm reminded of how much I HATE the term "pro-life". It presumes that everyone who doesn't agree is anti-life (or pro-death).



The term pro-choice makes me gag - how is it pro-choice when someone makes a choice about your life or death? If women were deciding whether to commit suicide I would say it were pro-choice, but they are choosing whether or not to kill a developing baby. If the baby were 2 days old and they decided to kill it it would be infanticide and she would be charged with a felony. By the same token Scott Peterson is being charged with murder of an unborn fetus he didn't want - but as the father has no right to choose abortion/life I guess that changes the facts. Men can procreate and financially support but have no say. So two out of the three particpants are without choice. Where is the pro-choice in any of this?

In conclusion most of the spurious arguments on this thread are lacking in fact - how about the recent statement by Norma McCovey (the Roe in the much cited Roe versus Wade case) where she states (1) that she never had that abortion and (2) regrets the millions of babies died due to the outcome of her case.

"Norma McCorvey (Roe) Laments 'Holocaust of Abortion'
By Nathan Burchfiel
CNSNews.com Correspondent
January 19, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - The bitter cold in the nation's capital Tuesday did not deter a pro-life activist whose landmark court case led to the legalization of abortion in the United States 32 years ago.

Standing outside the U.S. Supreme Court, 57-year-old Norma McCorvey was accompanied by about 35 people -- some with personal experiences with abortion, and others who are lawyers backing McCorvey's request for the high court to reverse Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that made abortion legal.

McCorvey was identified as "Jane Roe" in that controversial case, but for the last decade has charged that she was deceived and manipulated by abortion proponents who needed a test case to challenge the prevailing law at the time. Despite the fact that her case ended up serving as the legal justification for abortion, McCorvey did not abort her own child.

"America is slowly dying of a holocaust of abortion that began with Roe vs. Wade," McCorvey said Tuesday. She said her experience working in abortion clinics in the 1990s and her conversion to Christianity in 1995 made her regret the part she played in making abortion legal."

www.cnsnews.com...\\Culture\\archive\\200501\\CUL20050119a.html





[edit on 24-1-2005 by Mynaeris]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
They aren't 'unbaptised THINGS' ... they are children.

They're fetuses, zygotes and mordulas.


Catholic teaching about Limbo is different from Hell, Heaven,
and Purgatory. Limbo does not equal Hell. It's a totally different
place.

I am well aware of what limbo is supposed to be.

The babies that have died through abortion
or miscarriage have indeed been baptised - in the case of abortion
it is baptism in blood

There is no Church Doctrine that states this. HERETIC (ha j/k)

Yes, miscarriages should be given burial when the parents are able
to do so. Miscarried children are named.

Or destroyed as medical waste, as per the person doing it.


At least, it is Catholic teaching
to name the miscarried child since the child was indeed a child and a
soul.

A soul permantently cut of from direct experience and communion with the creator god, assigned to an 'inbetween' 'limbo'. A limbo because no one really knows what to do with them theologically. If anything they should be sent to purgatory to be purged of their sins and then admited into heaven. Limbo was created because people weren't comfortable with the idea of babies going to punishment in purgatory.

Zygots have no need of a 'get out of hell free' card from the pope
since they are not going to hell in the first place and the Catholic
church definately doesn't teach that they do.

Unbaptised sinners go to hell or purgatory. The Church came up with Limbo because its untenable that dead babies should go to either. Certainly for non-catholics they either go to hell upon death, or are ressurected from the pile of medical waste at the second comming, judged, found not to be in the 'book of life' and are cast into the lake of fire.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by lmgnyc
specializes in performing the procedure on fetuses with fatal abnormalities. The women that go through these pregnancy
terminations suffer extreme mental trauma and pain because
these pregnancies are wanted, but the fetuses are not viable.

These fetuses were not considered "medical waste" --this doctor
arranged for a private, discreet burial at a designated plot
(medical waste is not disposed of this way.)

women who are already grieving from losing a baby.

Losing a baby is not something that any women wants to happen
--and it certainly isn't something that she wants to become a public
event.


'Pregnancy termination' .. yeah ... okay ... use what ever words
you like to cover up the fact that they stopped a child's heart
from beating - KILLING a child. 'These fetuses' ... yeah ... okay
.... use what ever words you like to cover up the fact that it's a
HUMAN CHILD.

Anyone who kills their pre-born child is a murderer. They have
killed a human being. You say the children weren't viable. As long
as that child's heart was beating he or she was alive. Just because
the child isn't 'perfect' according to worldly notions doesn't mean
that child isn't viable. If at some point the child were to die in the
womb, then a D&C (or abortion of a dead child) would be in order.
But not before the child's heart stopped beating. To stop a human
heart from beating is killing that human. Their handicaps and/or
other physical deformities don't matter. That's all there is to it.

How 'comforting' to the doctor and the mother that the murdered
children are to be given 'proper burial'. What hypocrites. Kill the
kid and then give him or her a nice burial to try to make up for it.
humbug. Perhaps their intentions were 'good' ... spare the child
the pain or whatever ... but killing an imperfect child isn't their
decision to make.

Having a miscarriage isn't something that a woman wants to happen.
Having an abortion is something that is freely choosen by the woman.
Abortion because the child isn't perfect, or because there are serious
medical issues isn't an excuse to murder a child. I'm not surprised
that the killers of children don't want their abortions to 'become public'
(as you say). They killed their less than perfect children.

You can disagree. Whatever. This is my stand. I won't apologize for it.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Is not and will never be any reasoning between believes I got mine you got yours and we are all a happy family.

But is not right to call names or called murderer somebody that "choses" to make a decision about her body.

That is a private and personal matter and anybody out there has the right to judge any of them.

And when the time comes it will be a matter between that person and his creator or whatever you want to call it.

I don't believe in hell so I care not about the bowels of hell and the fire of inferno.

So I take any strong worlds as just another way of some to influence on the decisions of others.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:37 AM
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I haven't seen any response to my previous posting on this thread, but most "pro-choicers" prefer to attack the religious aspect of abortion rather than the facts. Another comfortable play is to address the fact that abortions are social issues where poor 12 year olds who are impregnated through incest are saved further humiliation. Once again some research would be informative to anyone wanting to participate meaningfully in this discussion.

33.4% of abortions are on women between the ages of 20 and 24
48.5% on women over the age of 24

55.4% of abortions are selected by white women

51% of abortions are done after 9 weeks of pregnancy
"By week nine, the baby is also:

• Growing by leaps and bounds. Her head is now quite large compared to the rest of her body, and curves onto her chest. Baby's arms have grown, her hands are now flexed at the wrists, and her legs are lengthening. Her feet may be long enough to meet in front of the body.

• Developing clearly visible fingers and toes.

• Continuing to develop her digestive system.

• Developing eyelids that are beginning to cover the eyes and fuse together (Baby's eyes won't open until about week 27).

• Completing development of the inner and external ears.

• Experiencing the first nerve connections in the brain"

www.cdc.gov...

This is not a social-economic issue , its a choice by those already born choosing abortion for those without choice.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by Mynaeris]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

They aren't 'unbaptised THINGS' ... they are children.

They're fetuses, zygotes and mordulas.

I am well aware of what limbo is supposed to be.


The babies that have died through abortion
or miscarriage have indeed been baptised - in the case of abortion
it is baptism in blood

There is no Church Doctrine that states this. HERETIC (ha j/k)


They are preborn human children - boys and girls waiting to be born.

Yes, you do have a good hold on what Limbo is supposed to be.
(BTW - I don't believe in it - or Revelation for that matter, but
that's for a different thread )

Church teaching on the different types of baptism -
(do you have your catechism ready?)
Baptism in blood - section 1258,
Baptism of desire - sections 1258, 1260, 1281
Unbaptised infants - section 1261
1261 - As regards 'children who have died without Baptism', the Church
can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites
for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should
be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to
say: "let the children come to me, do not hinder them", allows us to have
hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without
Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little
children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.'

(another BTW - I don't believe that people who aren't baptised
are going to Hell. I'm just chatting with ya' what the Catholic
church believes... which isn't necessarily what I believe so yes,
I guess I am a heritic of sorts)

History of Catholic belief in Baptism of Desire and Blood -
www.catholic.com...

(this site is very good to find the authentic Catholic teaching
on things)

[edit on 1/24/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
somebody that "choses" to make a decision about her body.

Hey ya' marg ... when people have abortions, they don't
abort themselves, they stop another person's heart from
beating. They don't stop their own heart. It's someone
else's. Abortion isn't about someone doing something
to their own body at all. If it was ... I wouldn't really
care as much. It's about them killing someone else.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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Marg: How is killing a baby making a choice about your body? its making a choice about a life you are carrying inside your body? It's not a permanent fixture inside your body, nine months down the line you can have the baby adopted if that is your choice. But many women feel they shouldn't put their body through the stress of the nine months, or that giving their babies away would be terrible, so they would rather kill the baby.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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By the way the thread is about the decision of a mortuary hired to cremate and bury fetuses, by an abortion clinic, and without the consent of the people that had the abortions or the abortion clinic has been given away to a church group to used as anti abortion propaganda.

This is morally wrong and against the wishes of the parties envolved.

Yes the law should be involved in this matter.

By the way stop pushing your views on abortion on others that is not what the thread is all about.



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