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In a world of pretense, are Japanese just more honest about lying?

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posted on Oct, 18 2016 @ 12:20 AM
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Except for those cocooned in denial, most people would agree that everyone lies. But while each culture has its own codes about how and to whom to do it, there is a notion that Japanese people are more insincere than others, that their concept of tatemae — which means that the true, honest self should be hidden behind public pretense — not only mandates but values deception.

...

Meyer cites research that on any given day, Americans are lied to between 10 and 200 times (depending, perhaps, on TV exposure). Besides interactions with parents and spouses, the truth is most absent during introductions, with an average of three lies served up in the first 10 minutes. Whatever happened to the home of the straightforward?
SOURCE


I've dealt with some people recently who seemed incapable of dealing with their own deception. They seemed to suffer cognitive dissonance when faced with the fact that they were being deceitful. That's why I'm interested in the Japanese concepts of "honne" and "tatemae."


Honne and tatemae are Japanese words that describe the contrast between a person's true feelings and desires (本音 hon'ne ?, "true sound") and the behavior and opinions one displays in public (建前 tatemae ?, "built in front", "façade").
LINK


Isn't it healthier to admit that this is the case for almost everyone? I have never met anyone who didn't operate according to principles of honne and tatemae to varying degrees (outside of possibly severely mentally challenged people). I agree with the concept presented in the article linked to at the top of this post. Let's be honest about lying for the good of our mental health.

To illustrate my point, consider the case of someone I met online who stated they were naturally snarky but they hid it unless they were around people they were very close to. That same person claimed that they were being honest all the time. I consider such things to be signs of an unbalanced mind. I guess it would have ruined that person's image of themselves to admit that they were in fact being fake when they hid their snarkiness. If that person were Japanese, they could probably admit to themselves that it was just tatemae. I have no problem with that, but sometimes the obvious needs to be expressed.
edit on 18-10-2016 by Profusion because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 18 2016 @ 02:05 AM
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originally posted by: Profusion
In a world of pretense, are Japanese just more honest about lying?

Seems to me that being PC, especially on crowded little islands like that, even to a cultic degree, means a more peaceful culture.
Are you aware of the crime statistics in Japan? *__-

Leave the inner insane person at home, bring the thoughtful, the nice, the considerate, bring the good son, or the good daughter or the good father or the good neighbor or the good citizen... out in public.
Keep the snarling beast under wraps.

Seems fair to me.
Again, are you aware of Japanese crime statistics?

Did you know that fear is the mother of lies?



edit on 18-10-2016 by namelesss because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2016 @ 02:18 AM
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a reply to: namelesss

The suicide rate is not great though, is it?

They have a whole forest which us unofficially dedicated to the practice. That is what comes about when the reality you construct for yourself, is based on the lies you told, not the way you truly feel. Sublimation of ones true self, only ever causes crushing and insurmountable trouble later on.

Being honest with others assists one in being honest with oneself.



posted on Oct, 18 2016 @ 03:53 AM
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It's on a different level here in Japan. You have no clue who a person is until you're alone with him/her. On the other hand, people here don't mind saying thank you, and apologizing. In the states it's like people have to analyze whether they should be the one saying it or not, like their pride is more important than civility.

TrueBrit, the suicide rate is somewhat high, though not as high as many think. But, the main reasons for this are probably that traditionally in Japanese culture suicide absolves a person and his family from shame (this society severely ostracizes people who've screwed up and gotten caught), as well as it not condemning anyone in the afterlife according to religion.



posted on Oct, 18 2016 @ 04:00 AM
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a reply to: MoreInterior

But it does not actually absolve anyone of anything, does it?

I mean, all it does is remove an individual from the consequences of their actions, they are no longer around to suffer any dishonour that they should, in fairness, live to feel, if they deserve it. It is foolhardy to believe otherwise, regardless of culture.



posted on Oct, 18 2016 @ 04:33 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: namelesss

The suicide rate is not great though, is it?

They have a whole forest which us unofficially dedicated to the practice.

I don't know the stats for suicide, mentioning the forest is mere anecdote and says nothing of the quantity of suicides. There could have been only ten in ten years, all in the special suicide forest. Capisce?


That is what comes about when the reality you construct for yourself, is based on the lies you told, not the way you truly feel. Sublimation of ones true self, only ever causes crushing and insurmountable trouble later on.

Being honest with others assists one in being honest with oneself.

That is quite true! *__-



posted on Oct, 18 2016 @ 05:02 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: namelesss

The suicide rate is not great though, is it?

They have a whole forest which us unofficially dedicated to the practice. That is what comes about when the reality you construct for yourself, is based on the lies you told, not the way you truly feel. Sublimation of ones true self, only ever causes crushing and insurmountable trouble later on.

Being honest with others assists one in being honest with oneself.


This I agree with. Just like an excess of rudeness and crudeness leads to a barbaric, uncivilized unpleasant place to live, an excessively civil society can make the people downright neurotic and unhealthy. You have to strike a balance between the two. Sacrificing one's own desires and wishes for the greater good or others, when it actually helps others and benefits people, is a wonderful thing. But doing it to protect or uphold outdated mores, traditions that have become toxic, or to support stability at all costs, is not so great.

Japanese society is extremely clean, very well mannered, very organized, I will give it that. And the reason Japanese cars are so easy to break into is that most Japanese engineers are still working from the mentality of a society that has very little car theft, break ins, or property crime, so they don't bother with FT Knox level locks we need here in the states. But I also do think that the level of self containment in Japanese society crosses overkill at times, especially when people are still killing themselves at high levels.



posted on Oct, 18 2016 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

I'm not saying it does any good. I'm just saying, that's how it is here. Usually people come into these threads and make the assertion that Japanese people are more depressed, or backwards when it comes to mental health, when the fact that suicide is just culturally and spiritually more acceptable here has a lot to do with it.

Then again, as pointless as suicide can be, I also don't like the attitude a lot of western cultures have, that it's selfish or cowardly. That doesn't really do much to make suicidal people feel they have worth.

Back on topic: Japanese girls can be pretty scary. They act childish and cutesy and then when I go to the ladies room the same girl will be like, dead eyes, deep voice, and just straight up say something catty and walk out.



posted on Nov, 6 2016 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: MoreInterior

But it does not actually absolve anyone of anything, does it?

I mean, all it does is remove an individual from the consequences of their actions, they are no longer around to suffer any dishonour that they should, in fairness, live to feel, if they deserve it. It is foolhardy to believe otherwise, regardless of culture.


So punishment is inherent? Guilt is a burden that shouldn't be removed?

I'll need one guess what religion you are



posted on Nov, 6 2016 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: sputniksteve

Guilt being removed from a person is achieved by forgiveness from those they have wronged, and by repentance.




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