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Indian fighter purchase - RFPs to Dassault, SAAB, MiG, F-16

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posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 10:39 AM
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the TVC is borrowed from the Mi9-29 OVT. here's a look at the cockpit MFD's



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]




posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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which other AF has this new MiG29 you speak of?



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
which other AF has this new MiG29 you speak of?


none.

only mig-OKB have a few (2 or 3) prototypes. the indian variant(if india buy it) will include some french aveonics and some israeli systems in addition to indian flight software, electronic countermeasures, etc



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 09:44 PM
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Where is the red button on the throttle? I thought the Ruskies used red buttons
How is the poor pilot supposed to know what button to press...



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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make the number of aircrafts wanted less by 12. ie 126-12=114.

india just bought 12 mirage-2000 V's.

Mirage2000 V, India's reply to F-16



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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Contrary to media reports I think those are plain Mirage 2000s.. just to replace the ones to cater for WWR (war/wastagereplacements)..
Esp since the InAF lost 4 mirages in one year only..



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Where is the red button on the throttle? I thought the Ruskies used red buttons
How is the poor pilot supposed to know what button to press...



ummmm.. there IS a red button on the joystick



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 05:46 AM
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read this nice article : www.the-week.com...



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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here's a look at the new phased array radar system developed by russia for the new Mig-29's on offer.







Advantages of ZHUK ME radar:
Small weight (220 kg) when range of detection of air targets (RCS 5м2) is as follows:

FHS look-up air target – exceeds 120 km, RHS look-up target- exceeds 60km;

FHS look-down target - exceeds 120 km, RHS look down target - exceeds 60km

2. Coverage zone: in azimuth ± 85°, in elevation ±56° /- 40°.

3. Reliability - 150 hours.

Upgraded MiG-29 with ZHUK-ME radar acquires capabilities of an advanced airborne complex of 4 +generation and does not yield to none of capabilities of US and Western European advanced light aviation complexes.
As is known, an alternative version of IAF MiG-29 modernisation with radar , which has a phased array antenna (PAR) with electronic mechanical azimuth/roll corrective turn of antenna, is also examined.
Analysis and assessment of such version of modernisation testify to significant reduction of combat efficiency of MiG-29 aircraft equipped with PAR in comparison with efficiency of MiG-29 upgraded by ZHUK-ME radar.

Grounds:
Significant reduction of detection range of air targets due to losses of power in PAR;
PAR angle of electronic scanning does not exceed ±45°. That results in necessity of mechanical control of azimuth and roll and, as a consequence, in reduction of reliability and increase of radar weight;
PAR weight is twice as much as ZHUK-ME weight . That results in growth of PAR power consumption. All this compels to change the cockpit layout and to reduce fuel weight.
Since PAR is not available yet, its development and interface will take 3 to 4 years and 1 or 2 years will be required for flight tests.
Under the circumstances it should be noted:

The majority of American and European developers of front aircraft air complexes prefer to install slotted array radars on production aircraft;

Phazotron has developed the ZHUK-MFE radar, which has phased array antenna free from the above said drawbacks. It was possible to achieve, using new principles of PAR design and UHF technological solutions. ZHUK-MFE weight and tactical characteristics are close to ZHUK-ME characteristics. It allows installing this radar onboard upgraded MiG-29 aircraft without changing its design. Now ZHUK-MFE radar undergoes laboratory tests. At Customer’s request Phazotron is ready to place this radar on MiG-29 or other type of aircraft and begin its series production.
Phazotron has also developed a unified family of multifunctional Kopyo radars, which can be offered for new or upgraded Indian aircraft.
In India Kopyo-21I radar is well known. It is installed on MiG-21 Bis UPG aircraft. Tactical characteristics of this radar, validated in flight trials, allow to relate this station to generation 4 + and to ascertain as follows: Kopyo-21I radar meets all the requirements to radars for advanced light multifunctional aircraft. It is obvious that installation of this radar considerably enhances aircraft combat capabilities and efficiency of MIG-21 Bis UPG aircraft as a whole.
Kopyo-21I is the first radar in a number of unified radars: Kopyo-M, Kopyo-25 and Kopyo-A, designed on a new element basis.
Phazotron has developed Kopyo-25, a podded version of Kopyo-21I. It has undergone flight tests on Su-39 aircraft. The container version of the radar allows to equip the aircraft, which was not equipped with the radar earlier, with an advanced radar without essential adaptations of an aircraft. It expands tactical capabilities of an air complex. Kopyo-25 may be offered for HAL produced MiG-27L upgrade.
Kopyo-М is similar to Kopyo-21I, however due to transition to a new element base and new signal processor, it has 25 % increase in range of air target detection, Time of a radar map generation in synthesized aperture mapping mode has become twice as less. The radar is much more reliable, has smaller weight and overall dimensions. Its characteristics allow considering Kopyo-М as the radar for further modernization of MiG-21 Bis aircraft or similar class of aircraft. It is expedient to consider jointly with the Indian experts the feasibility of fitting this radar on IAF light aircraft like LCA. At present Kopyo-М undergoes flight test.
Phazotron has also designed Kopyo-A radar for various types of helicopters.

Kopyo-A radar has the following functions:

Monitoring of sea coast borders in 0о to 360о zone in azimuth and 250km in range;

Search and detection of sea surface and ground targets, including small targets (boats, cutters, periscopes of submarines etc.);

Search and detection of air targets in 0о … 360о zone in azimuth and ±25о in elevation;

Identification and tracking of up to 10 targets with accurate measurement of their co-ordinates in a coverage zone;

Detection and identification of co-ordinates of dangerous weather formations.
Kopyo-A weight does not exceed 100 kg. The radar has passed laboratory tests. Flight tests have already started.
Kopyo A can be used for modernization of Indian Navy Ка-28 helicopters.
Onboard radars such as Kopyo and ZHUK are sophisticated technical devices, which in many respects determine capabilities of airborne complexes. Completion of combat mission depends on avionics reliability. Avionics designers are supposed to ensure the specified level of reliability and failure free operation.
Major link in improvement of maintenance and check of reliability is the maintenance facilities in operational units. The experience obtained by Phazotron during Kopyo-21I operation in IAF air units is very useful. For the first time during 10 years the air force has received a large batch of advanced (4+ generation) radars of Russian production. It has undoubtedly revealed some radar drawbacks connected with its reliability, which could not be revealed during 4 - 5 prototypes improvement and tests. Now together with the Indian experts we develop measures to improve radar Kopyo-21I reliability, which are successfully implemented.
On the other hand, it has allowed us to introduce corrective amendments into radar design, technical and technological solutions. They are realised in radars supplied to India.
During Kopyo-21I operation we have verified and improved its principles of maintenance:

Radar maintenance is performed by BIT without any external test means and is based on the principle of its condition;

It is necessary to provide the following kinds of on-line preparations: preflight preparation, turn round flight preparation, periodic inspection, failure removal activities;

Trouble shooting up to LRU based on BIT;

Continuous radar checks in flight and recording of flight data into non-volatile memory;

Repair of failed LRU should be done by means of operation and repair panels (ORP).
Similar principles of maintenance are incorporated in ZHUK-ME radar. Experience acquired during Kopyo-21I operation in India allows to improve these principles. It increases cost effectiveness and efficiency of radar and air complex maintenance, on which it is installed.

an excerept from a talk by Dr A I Kanashchenkov et al.,
Director General & General Designer, “PHAZOTRON-NIIR” Corporation, Moscow, Russia at Aero india seminar -2005.

full talk >> www.aeroindiaseminar.com...

i hope the mods dont warn me again for over quoting.

one can download the original .ppt files used in the presentation form here >> www.aeroindiaseminar.com...

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 12:20 PM
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another very good analysis, perhaps the best i have read : analysis

a few excrecepts :



...............F-16C Block 70 upgrade are yet to be revealed one may well expect it to include –– Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar capable of interleaving air-to-air, air-to-ground and terrain following modes, providing high resolution Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) ground imaging and capable of automatic terrain following; Infra-Red (IR) detection kit and a formidable Electronic Warfare (EW) suite. The “package” may include an impressive array of US air-to-air and air-to-ground weaponry and the incorporation of “aerodynamic” aluminium Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFT) that “blend” nicely with the upper fuselage, which will ensure long-range and endurance with unaffected aerodynamic performance.............. ........IAF fascination for the Mirage 2000 fighters and the proposed follow-on Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 variants, as combat records and performance imprint a deep impact on the servicemens’ psyche. In this context the excellent performance of the Mirage 2000H/TH fleet during the Kargil conflict during the summer of 1999 and simultaneous avoidance of air-combat of Pakistani Air Force (PAF) F-16s did have their effect. .................................The Indians on their part should put the greatest stress on technology sharing and transfer to additionally ensure the rapid attainment of Initial Operational Capability (IOC) of the indigenous LCA Tejas and timely introduction of MCA fleet around 2012–15..................Dassault in sheer desperation may even offer the Rafale to IAF at a more competitive price if a decent production run is assured..................



[edit on 10-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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ummmm.. there IS a red button on the joystick


Ahh... I see it now, this is good news for the Russian pilots, they have red buttons



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Ahh... I see it now, this is good news for the Russian pilots, they have red buttons


here is a look at an F-16's cockpit.




I see a red button on the stick (to the extreme right bottom)
:



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 08:07 PM
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Yeah... I know every jet has a red button, even the Raptor has a red button.




posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yeah... I know every jet has a red button, even the Raptor has a red button.



anyone knows what the button does ??

be mig has 2 red buttons, one on top and one the side.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
another very good analysis, perhaps the best i have read : analysis


[edit on 10-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]


yes good article...
doesn't help decide a winner though!!



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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I always though it was to fire the missiles. In my head Red button=Missiles being fired.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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a peek into the rafale's cockpit reveals that its got no red button .




the same can be said about the Mirage-2000 -5 cockpit too





posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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It always has to be the French, damn French.
Ok I don't know why I said damn French but it sure made me feel better



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Thursday held its first discussions on the F-16 and F-18 planes with the head of the U.S. Defence Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), the organisation that oversees U.S. military sales and financing programmes to foreign countries.

The U.S. team will be back to explain the main features of the aircraft to a joint delegation of the Army and the Navy, both of whom are honing their joint fighting capabilities with the IAF.

The talks spanned two hours and saw the U.S. side explaining the basic capabilities and the upgrade cycle of both aircraft, one made by Lockheed Martin and the other by a Boeing subsidiary, McDonell Douglas, said the DSCA Director and highly experienced F-16 pilot, Jeffrey B. Kohler. The IAF team was led by the IAF Deputy Chief of Staff, J. S. Gujral, himself a fighter pilot.

Asked about the U.S. Government's role in selling the fighter planes, Lt. Gen. Kohler said, "We read the request for information and felt both (F-16 and F-18) could meet the requirements. Therefore, we allowed both Boeing and Lockheed to apply for licences to talk to India. The DSCA and the U.S. Embassy will support both companies equally.''

On the vital question of continuous service support in the light of India's previous experience of U.S. sanctions, Lt. Gen. Kohler pointed out that his agency was responsible for overseeing sales of 11,000 items of defence equipment worth over $220 billion to 190 countries. "We are the largest exporters of service equipment and training. This speaks loudly for itself, otherwise the 190 countries would have been looked elsewhere.'' However, none of the countries was penalised for nuclear proliferation but sanctions were imposed on a few of them for human rights abuses and loan defaults. "We have a qualitatively different relationship as compared to 1998 (when sanctions were imposed). The stakes are much higher and I am sure both sides would take that into consideration before precipitating decisions.'' Though it was premature to talk of the type of licence production that would be agreed upon, the DSCA Director said, "Both are eager to work on industrial cooperation. I am positive regardless of whether U.S. wins, the talks will strengthen (possibilities of) industrial cooperation and build better understanding in many more areas.''

Lt. Gen Kohler said the threads of sale and joint production of F-16s and F-18s would be picked up by further delegation-level talks as during the forthcoming apex-level defence meeting and the Defence Minister, Pranab Mukherjee's visit to Washington.



www.hindu.com...



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 05:31 AM
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Some more related news :



The Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi, said on Thursday that there is no pressure from the United States to buy the F-16 fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force.

"There is no pressure from anyone. We will buy any aircraft we need. After all, we are paying for them.".

On buying 126 fighter jets for the IAF, Air Chief Marshal Tyagi said: "We have offers from four manufacturers. From Russia for MiG 29s, from France for the Mirage and from Sweden for the Grippen and from the U.S. for the F-16s. Since the U.S. Government has already cleared U.S. aircraft companies, others in that country too can enter the competition."






Asked about inducting the HAL-designed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) into the IAF, he said: "We are indenting for 20 LCAs and there is no doubt about it. I am happy with the performance of the LCA and glad we are advancing technologically to produce one of the better fighters"


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