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Tlaloc is the rain/sea god of Plato's Atlantis.

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posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 08:38 PM
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The rain god Tlaloc of Mesoamerica is one of the best candidtates for Plato's sea god Poseidon. Plato describes the whole story around the Sea god who raised Atlantis out of the water. Wouldn't the god of a country be remembered in the names of cities and villages? Plato did not mention the meaning of the name Atlantis and how it was associated to the sea god. One shouldn't confuse the Greek mythological character 'Atlas' with the city of Atlantis. The fable did not say that Atlas raised Atlantis, it was the sea god. Plato was trying to describe the story in Greek terms and so he mentioned Poseidon as the sea god because his people would recognize that character. The city was named after the sea god who was either Atlantis or Tlaloc. Forms of Tlaloc's name can be found in many Mesoamerican cities and villages:

Utatlan
Chinautla
Mitla
Teotitlan
Cuicatlan
Coixtlahuacan
Tlaxiaco
Tzilacayoapan
Matatlan
Ixtayutlan
Miahuatlan
Coxcatlan
Juxtlahuaca
Tlatilco
Tlapacoya

(and many others)

As you can see the word form of 'Atlan' originated from Mesoamerica. Mesomerica fits the bill as being Plato's Atlantis because its the only place in the western world with comlex pyramid temples and the source of advanced writing and astronomy. The names of ancient cities that still have remains of these famous temples are:

Teotihuacan (pyramid of sun, moon, and Quetzalcoatl)
El Tajin
Monte Alban
Tikal
Yaxchilan
Palenque
Copan
Uxmal
Tula
Chichen Itza
Mitla
Tenochititlan
Cholula
Xochicalco
Malinalco
Yagul
Quirigua
Altun
Xunantunich
Kohunlich
(and more)
Look up these sites on the internet and you'll see the amazing temples that remain.


These temple remains are found in Mexico, Guatemala, Belize and the northern tip of Honduras. The major bulk of ancient temples are found from the tip of the Yucatan to the western edge of El Salvador.

If the the so-called Atlantis is to be found, it would most definitely be in the Caribbean Ocean to the east of these highly concentrated temples.

There needs to be some organized effort to map the bottom of the Caribbean sea near these temple sites. All the waters along the southern coast of Cuba to the Yucatan and south to Honduras.




posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 12:12 AM
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www.famsi.org...

Here's a map of Mesoamerica showing the location of ancient monuments within Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 12:47 AM
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www.windows.ucar.edu...=/mythology/tlaloc_rain.html





archaeology.la.asu.edu...

The myth of Tlaloc
home.freeuk.net...
Notice how the people from Tlaloc's homeland drowned. The Aztecs called it Tlalocan.

titan.glo.be...

Tlaloc is always shown wearing goggles over his eyes. Do the goggles represent rain drops or do they represent actual goggles used to see underwater?

Not too sure why he's shown with fangs. The people highly feared this deity. This civilization was known for human sacrifices and blood-letting. Fangs of a bat rings a bell and so does the Vampire legend.

Faces of Tlaloc are seen from Teotihuacan (Mexico) in the west to Copan (Honduras) in the east.






[edit on 24-1-2005 by lostinspace]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 06:29 PM
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www.morien-institute.org...




(this is not the only one.)



[edit on 25-1-2005 by lostinspace]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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www.ig.utexas.edu...

Click on the link within the posted website to make the image larger and see the bottom of the Caribbean in high detail.

The megalithic structures are being found near the western tip of Cuba. Remember the major Mesoamerican temples reside to the west in the Yucatan.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by lostinspace
Wouldn't the god of a country be remembered in the names of cities and villages?

The wouldn't it be tlalocis? How does this criticism apply to poseidon, but not tlaloc? Atlantis was named after one of poseidon's children, also a king of the country.


Forms of Tlaloc's name can be found in many Mesoamerican cities and villages

Thats rather irrelevant.


As you can see the word form of 'Atlan' originated from Mesoamerica.

Yes, and the aztecs apparently have a myth of comming froma place called aztlan. Not sure if thats really enough tho.


Mesomerica fits the bill as being Plato's Atlantis because its the only place in the western world with comlex pyramid temples and the source of advanced writing and astronomy.

I don't understand, why have you left out egypt and sumer?

If the the so-called Atlantis is to be found, it would most definitely be in the Caribbean Ocean to the east of these highly concentrated temples.

And yet, its not there.


There needs to be some organized effort to map the bottom of the Caribbean sea near these temple sites. All the waters along the southern coast of Cuba to the Yucatan and south to Honduras.

Check. Ok, now that thats been done and nothing has come up......?


The megalithic structures are being found near the western tip of Cuba.

Megalithic structures have not been found off the coast of cuba. There was one report that made big claims on very little evidence. Has the situation changed?



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Tikal temples
www.anthroarcheart.org...

Palenque temples
www.anthroarcheart.org...

El Tajin temples
www.anthroarcheart.org...

Chichen Izta temples
www.anthroarcheart.org...

Uxmal temples
www.anthroarcheart.org...


These are the ones nearest the Caribbean when compared to the two Giant Pyramids near Mexico City at Teotihuacan.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:43 PM
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Thanks for even bothering making a comment.

My feeling on the matter is that the Atlantis Plato wrote about is his biased view on an actual event that really happened. For example if there are step pyramids to be found in the Caribbean, they will never find a giant statue of Poseidon riding a chariot drawn by winged horses. That's a Greek imagination. Now they might find a giant statue of Tlaloc with his famous fish-goggle eyes with fangs.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 11:04 AM
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Plato was trying to describe the story in Greek terms and so he mentioned Poseidon as the sea god because his people would recognize that character.


Yes, and this is even stated by Plato in the Dialogue of Critius...


I think you're on the right track, but possibly missing the big picture...

The CONTINENT of Atlantis is South America, but the CITY of Atlantis' remains can be found in the Altiplano of Bolivia. There's even a local legend concerning the sinking of the city, and it matches every point made by Plato...



posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 10:44 PM
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Here's an interesting read associating Ancient America with the Atlantis tale.

www.seeekers.net...


(Gazrok, I looked up information relating to Atlantis being near Bolivia and noticed the possible details of interest. Things such as Lake Titicaca strange location, the close proximity to the Nazca Lines and the local legends. I am curious on what exactly sold you on it being the Altplano in Boliva? A few things contradict it being that location such as its on the wrong side of the ocean and its high in the mountains under a lake instead of at the bottom of the ocean.)

[edit on 2-2-2005 by lostinspace]



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 12:01 AM
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Plato's Atlantis was a conversation he had with Solon, an Egyptian traveler. Any theories about the location being where Indonesia is now? There are thousands of islands large and small, a place like that could exist. A place of great natural disturbances.

As far as the theory of Atlantis being in the Alto Plano of Peru: Question: Wouldn't that mean that the water level was higher at one time. Plato describes Atlantis as being submerged into the sea. Doesn't that eliminate the possibility of Atlantis being located at a higher sea level?

[edit on 3-2-2005 by Justanotherperson]



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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The rain god Tlaloc was a very significant charactor in Mesoamerican mythology and I still believe that he is closely tied in with the sea god Poseidon. What really interests me is the rival character Quetzalcoatl of Aztec legend. Quetzalcoatl is said to have come from the East and had white skin with black hair. He instructed many sciences and other crafts to the mesoamericans, even building temples. He told the people that they should no longer perform human sacrifices. Eventually later Quetzalcoatl left back to his Eastern world. The mesoamericans down through the ages continued with human sacrifices again.

I am beginning to have the feeling that the Atlantis legend is owed the the Phoenicians or better yet the people of Sidon (same thing). I would say that Teotihuacan was built in honor to the Phoenicians who saved some of the royal family when the island of Atlantis sank. A few Phoenician ships were in port when the island began to sink. Quetzalcoatl was a great commander of the Phoenician fleet. The two pyramids in Teotihuacan were named after the two Phoenician ships which rescued those from the sinking capitol. One ship was named Moon and the other ship was named Sun. I'll start a new thread on this angle.

[edit on 3-2-2005 by lostinspace]



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by lostinspace
The rain god Tlaloc of Mesoamerica is one of the best candidtates for Plato's sea god Poseidon.


Actually, no. He's not. Poseidon is a variant of a much older Ionian deityand was first associated with thunder and eartquakes; not the sea. The name of Poseidon dates to about 2000 BC. His history and attributes are quite different than Tlaloc:
writing.lantenengo.com...

Tlaloc is a much older god with much different attributes. He's a rain god (not an ocean god) and the god of fertility. Some of the pictographs of him date to before 5,000 BC:
writing.lantenengo.com...

His cult/culture was spread south along the Rio Grande and eventually spread further south into Central America. But he is originally a North American god and there's good records of this among the Native Americans.




Plato was trying to describe the story in Greek terms and so he mentioned Poseidon as the sea god because his people would recognize that character.

Actually, he was a scholar and he was writing for scholars. This was not literature for the masses; it was literature for the select few. If he'd meant another sea god, he would have said the name (this happens in other writings where they mention the name of the god and the culture that it came from.) He said Poseidon because he meant Poseidon.



As you can see the word form of 'Atlan' originated from Mesoamerica.


Actually, it didn't. It has the same sound as one root word in the Mesoamerican language, but there's no connection. "Atlatl" has the same root souds, but I can assure you there's nothing of "atlantis" about it. The huma mouth can only produce just so many sounds, which is what makes it possible for any human from one culture group to speak any other language in the world (if they try hard enough.)



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd

As you can see the word form of 'Atlan' originated from Mesoamerica.


Actually, it didn't. It has the same sound as one root word in the Mesoamerican language, but there's no connection.


Of course it didn't. Just, we mesoamericans did (and do) use the Atl-atl. I have one above my mantleboard. Of course this word has nothing to do with the Atl-anteans. Of course humanity did not originate in the Americas and spread out over the world, carrying atl-atls, so long ago it would make your shorts rot. Of course the Atlan-tes have nothing to do with Atlan-tis...

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Chakotay]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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I am curious on what exactly sold you on it being the Altplano in Boliva? A few things contradict it being that location such as its on the wrong side of the ocean and its high in the mountains under a lake instead of at the bottom of the ocean.)


I can't recall him saying anything about what side except to say that the city was "midway along the continent's longest side" which the Altiplano is. Plato's writings say that Atlantis is surrounded by hills, as is the Altiplano. The Altiplano floods with volcanic activity, as did the city in Plato's tale. There is a canal that leads to the ocean, just as in Plato's tale. You've got the red, white and black stone, the alternating belts of land and sea...the remnants of a wall. There is even a local native legend of a great city there that was destroyed by earthquake and flood. The plain is the measurements as given by Plato. The entire layout fits Plato's descriptions to a T. Simply put, the continent of South America is the size and shape described in Plato's tale. Everything pretty much fits the bill and those that don't....well, we are talking about a place at least 900 years before Plato...possibly even longer depending on whether a date translation mistake was made or not.

Pretty much most of that convinces me. I find the circumstances of the Altiplano matching so much of Plato's descriptions, just a little too much to be pure coincidence....and no matter how much I've looked into it, it still seems to be the ONLY candidate for Atlantis, even over Thera and other such ideas...



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by Chakotay

Originally posted by Byrd

As you can see the word form of 'Atlan' originated from Mesoamerica.


Actually, it didn't. It has the same sound as one root word in the Mesoamerican language, but there's no connection.


Of course it didn't. Just, we mesoamericans did (and do) use the Atl-atl. I have one above my mantleboard. Of course this word has nothing to do with the Atl-anteans. Of course humanity did not originate in the Americas and spread out over the world, carrying atl-atls, so long ago it would make your shorts rot. Of course the Atlan-tes have nothing to do with Atlan-tis...

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Chakotay]


You're right. They don't. The similarity of one word in one language ("embarazado") does not imply that it means the same in another language (that word meant "pregnant" and not embarrassed.) There are thousands of other examples.

The languages aren't related. Cherokee is an Iriquoian language; a proud people who contributed much to this nation. The Mayan languages are offshoots of the first wave of migrants to this land; the ancient Amerind language.

Our people accomplished many wonderful things. They didn't need people from the Old World to come "civilize" them.



posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 10:30 PM
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...But then again, the Mesoamerican rain god could have been Baal, the primary god of the Caananites and Phoenicians.

Wikipedia shows that the god Baal (Hadad) was also known as the god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of heaven.
en.wikipedia.org...

The ancient culture that mostly relates to Plato's Atlantis is the Phoenicians. The horse races, the Cross symbol (the layout of the circular water ways and land masses, intersected by a cross), the running of the Bulls, the name of the primary god (PoSidon) and his sons (on of which is a form of Gades) all point to the Phoenicians. The one thing that I believe belongs to the Mesoamericans is the sinking of the major city, which the Phoenicians either stole for this legend of Atlantis or the city that sank was the Phoenician's jewel in the West.
I am willing to bet that the intermarriage of the Phoenicians and the Asians produced the ancient Mesoamericans. The Asians got to the Americas first from the West and the Phoenicians got to the Americas some time after, from the East. Their customs had to have blended and formed a unique culture of their own.

The sunken city has to be in the Caribbean.

Also see the thread: Phoenicians are responsible for Plato's Atlantis

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 13-1-2006 by lostinspace]



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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Hey lostinspace... GREAT thread!!! I am sooooooo glad I found this. I must run back to work right now... lunch is over. But you are so right in what you said in your opening post. I will read the rest of this thread when I get home from work.

Great Job!
Stari



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Stari
Hey lostinspace... GREAT thread!!! I am sooooooo glad I found this. I must run back to work right now... lunch is over. But you are so right in what you said in your opening post. I will read the rest of this thread when I get home from work.

Great Job!
Stari

Stari,

Long time no talk.

I'm wondering why you thing LIS was "so right."

I mean, read this part:


Plato did not mention the meaning of the name Atlantis and how it was associated to the sea god. One shouldn't confuse the Greek mythological character 'Atlas' with the city of Atlantis. The fable did not say that Atlas raised Atlantis, it was the sea god. Plato was trying to describe the story in Greek terms and so he mentioned Poseidon as the sea god because his people would recognize that character. The city was named after the sea god who was either Atlantis or Tlaloc.

Now read what Plato said:


I have before remarked in speaking of the allotments of the gods, that they distributed the whole earth into portions differing in extent, and made for themselves temples and instituted sacrifices. And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe.

Poseidon did not "raise" Atlantis. He was given it as part of his "allotment"


He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory. And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic.

Plato tells us that Atlantis was named for it's first king - King Atlas (not the Titan Atlas of mythology.)

In fact "Atlantis" means of or having to do with Atlas.

Source for Plato: Critias

IOW Lost in Space is blowing smoke out his rear in the OP.

Harte


[edit on 11/10/2009 by Harte]



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by Harte
 


Wow Harte, it has been a long time. I was wondering where you went to. Anyhow... Did you even read what I wrote or did you just go straight to trying to disprove something that I think is dead on track


I said that I did not have the time at that moment to read the whole thread, but I did say I could not wait to read it tonight. Now time has gotten away from me and my real life has taken over I did not get time to read them tonight. Please do more research Harte. I even have a map I will upload as soon as I can and it shows exactly where Plato says Atlantis existed. Caribbean Sea is dead on track!

OP... I will try really hard to read this thread tomorrow night and try to get that pic uploaded that I have for you and anyone else with an open mind to see


Stari





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