I thought the Clintons were way worse before this election....

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

But evil implies intentional and no one intends to screw up.


I actually buy that out ME issues are due to keeping the US dollar the oil standard. Which makes the dollar the world standard.
Is it worth a couple wars to ensure your currency remains the global standard?? I have no idea.

What if we intended to destabilize the region? What if it's not a screw up and all this is exactly as planned? ISIS looks alot like controlled opposition, which would be intentional.

Killing people for money and contracts fits into my definition of morally corrupt.

Definitely a possibility...really works well since we could kill every terrorist and how would the American people know?!?

It's not a country.. you could just say they were still out there and keep the billions rolling in.


That's actually part of the oil standard conspiracy.

After the ottomans The west intentionally split up the ME in a way that would ensure chaos. That that way the Muslim countries could never unite against us and cut off the oil supply.

Which was (according to the theory) the reason for the establish meant of isreal..or at least the choice of location.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

But evil implies intentional and no one intends to screw up.


I actually buy that out ME issues are due to keeping the US dollar the oil standard. Which makes the dollar the world standard.
Is it worth a couple wars to ensure your currency remains the global standard?? I have no idea.

What if we intended to destabilize the region? What if it's not a screw up and all this is exactly as planned? ISIS looks alot like controlled opposition, which would be intentional.

Killing people for money and contracts fits into my definition of morally corrupt.

Definitely a possibility...really works well since we could kill every terrorist and how would the American people know?!?

It's not a country.. you could just say they were still out there and keep the billions rolling in.


That's actually part of the oil standard conspiracy.

After the ottomans The west intentionally split up the ME in a way that would ensure chaos. That that way the Muslim countries could never unite against us and cut off the oil supply.

Which was (according to the theory) the reason for the establish meant of isreal..or at least the choice of location.

Yes, this is what I say to people who say "Look how idiotic our leadership is, the ME is in chaos and all of these people have died!" They are still operating under the false assumption that we are there primarily for producing stability, nation-building, democracy, human rights, etc. If we are there for global and regional hegemony, at any cost, then the goal may not be any of those aforementioned things.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Going into this election I didn't doubt many of the Clinton conspiracy theory's were true. I have no respect for our politicians.

I tend to think that all politicians are dirty, and the clintons have been politicians for longer than most.

However, after looking into all the scandals that have been reported. I have come to the conclusion that it's not the clintons that are dirty They are no worse than the rest....it's the system that's broken....

The reason there is never any wrong doing found, when these scandals are investigated by the FBI and GOP led congressional committees (the same republicans pushing the scandal in the first place). Is because it is all normal operating procedures for our politicians, made legal by different politicians generations ago...


Exhibit A: the DNC Email leak.

Those emails were private. They were never meant to be public records. So hypothetically the authors had no real reason to lie or obfuscate. If they (the dems) were all rife with corruption the emails should show it. They should be the smoking gun of all smoking guns. No different than if y'all saw my text log...you instantly know most of my secrets....but there was no smoking gun...hell they can't even quote the parts that prove "pay for play" and the DNC rigging the convention, because there is no email that says that...AND THEY WERE PRIVATE, THERE SHOULD!!!


The worst one they can point to is :

"Has Bernie admitted he is an atheist, think he has dodged it and said he is of Jewish heritage..."

Which was a question no one ever even asked Sanders!!


Exhibit B: Juanita Broderick..including her with your 2 "accusers" was stupid when the other two have a legit varifiable case.

I didn't know the story of the rape allegations before the election, but they are the most thin BS you have ever heard. She has no proof of ever having a public or private conversation with the clintons. Didn't accuse him till decades later and has told 2 different republican investigators it didn't happen...

The GOP is using the excuse of "well they falsely accuse us too" BS then point to Clarence Tomas and other allegations that were never proven..


The GOP had it right that it was ridiculous to "always assume the accuser is telling the truth." It's a logical fallacy. You have to actually investigate criminal actions befor throwing around public accusations..obviously.


The GOP flip flops have proven exactly how principled they are. Exactly how much they care about "high Christian values"...

How do they go back to being the "moral " party after this???lol

How did they let a life long democrat destroy the gop?!?!

I think this is right. It's not the Clintons themselves, it's that the system is corrupt and most high level politicians at this point are bought out or compromised. These issues wayyyyy predate the Clintons.

That's why they never get charged and convicted...


The GOP crowd swears treason has been commited, then find no wrong doing, but they never admit it was BS.

I think that is 100% responsible for trump.


The base actually believed them!! So when no one goes to jail, they don't stop to question the whole scandal. They decide that everyone is lying and they can't trust ANYONE. Which is where trump came from..

He rammed all that mistrust right down their throats.

Of course they don't get charged and convicted. Dude, if other elites tried to take to task the Clintons, then that side of the axis would go after the Bush posse for their war crimes such as torture and Iraq. The Republicans know full well that they have their share of the crimes too. And when it comes to the higher level stuff like domestic surveillance and foreign imperial wars, both sides of the aisle close ranks and all vote for it or support it, with few exceptions.

Are you saying that Trump is an outsider who was able to ride this groundswell of mistrust, or are you saying that he is an insider just manipulating it?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Exactly. Start in 1954 when we created a coup in Iran for Brittish oil, then the shah manipulating congress and President's, the revolution in the 70's, supporting Saudi Arabian Whahabism, Reagan arming Sadam, Reagan arming saddam's enemy Iran even in the embargo, training Bin Laden, fighting Iraq invasion during the oil trade war between Iraq and Saudi and Kuwait, Clinton using weapons inspectors with the intention of finding reasons to bomb, Invasion of Iraq under known false intelligence, funding rebels across the middle east during the Arab Spring, funding rebels who turned terrorist in Syria, on and on and on...

Its ridiculous.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Exactly. Start in 1954 when we created a coup in Iran for Brittish oil, then the shah manipulating congress and President's, the revolution in the 70's, supporting Saudi Arabian Whahabism, Reagan arming Sadam, Reagan arming saddam's enemy Iran even in the embargo, training Bin Laden, fighting Iraq invasion during the oil trade war between Iraq and Saudi and Kuwait, Clinton using weapons inspectors with the intention of finding reasons to bomb, Invasion of Iraq under known false intelligence, funding rebels across the middle east during the Arab Spring, funding rebels who turned terrorist in Syria, on and on and on...

Its ridiculous.

Yes, I'm convinced of the points you and I made.

Don't forget the evidence from Latin America. The exact same pattern occurred since the 50's, with the 1954 coup in Guatemala to overthrow democratically elected Arbenz, with the installation of a United Fruit Co.-friendly dictator, which resulted in a 30 year civil war. This pattern was reproduced across the Americas. Dictators not democracies. Genocide of the Maya not Geneva Convention. Death squads. Chaos. Many of those countries such as Guatemala are STILL trying to recover from that history.

The motive CAN'T be democracy and human rights. The motive is geo-political hegemony.

Now in regards to Libya and Syria, it's proxy wars and regime change attempts all over again, with the CIA and black ops at the forefront.

I've definitely taken the red pill somewhere along the way... And it has unveiled the monsters that international politics, electoral politics in the US, our foreign policy, and our actions abroad really are.

How do you handle all of this information?

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

But evil implies intentional and no one intends to screw up.


I actually buy that out ME issues are due to keeping the US dollar the oil standard. Which makes the dollar the world standard.
Is it worth a couple wars to ensure your currency remains the global standard?? I have no idea.

What if we intended to destabilize the region? What if it's not a screw up and all this is exactly as planned? ISIS looks alot like controlled opposition, which would be intentional.

Killing people for money and contracts fits into my definition of morally corrupt.

Definitely a possibility...really works well since we could kill every terrorist and how would the American people know?!?

It's not a country.. you could just say they were still out there and keep the billions rolling in.


That's actually part of the oil standard conspiracy.

After the ottomans The west intentionally split up the ME in a way that would ensure chaos. That that way the Muslim countries could never unite against us and cut off the oil supply.

Which was (according to the theory) the reason for the establish meant of isreal..or at least the choice of location.

Yes, this is what I say to people who say "Look how idiotic our leadership is, the ME is in chaos and all of these people have died!" They are still operating under the false assumption that we are there primarily for producing stability, nation-building, democracy, human rights, etc. If we are there for global and regional hegemony, at any cost, then the goal may not be any of those aforementioned things.

I think they want both..but you rarely get that with a lazing invasion.

That said I'm an American. What if that is the reason we are the most powerful country?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

But evil implies intentional and no one intends to screw up.


I actually buy that out ME issues are due to keeping the US dollar the oil standard. Which makes the dollar the world standard.
Is it worth a couple wars to ensure your currency remains the global standard?? I have no idea.

What if we intended to destabilize the region? What if it's not a screw up and all this is exactly as planned? ISIS looks alot like controlled opposition, which would be intentional.

Killing people for money and contracts fits into my definition of morally corrupt.

Definitely a possibility...really works well since we could kill every terrorist and how would the American people know?!?

It's not a country.. you could just say they were still out there and keep the billions rolling in.


That's actually part of the oil standard conspiracy.

After the ottomans The west intentionally split up the ME in a way that would ensure chaos. That that way the Muslim countries could never unite against us and cut off the oil supply.

Which was (according to the theory) the reason for the establish meant of isreal..or at least the choice of location.

Yes, this is what I say to people who say "Look how idiotic our leadership is, the ME is in chaos and all of these people have died!" They are still operating under the false assumption that we are there primarily for producing stability, nation-building, democracy, human rights, etc. If we are there for global and regional hegemony, at any cost, then the goal may not be any of those aforementioned things.

I think they want both..but you rarely get that with a lazing invasion.

That said I'm an American. What if that is the reason we are the most powerful country?

I don't think the Pentagon and elite want both. Your average American, sure. The actions of the military-industrial complex over the past 60-70 years would absolutely fly in the face of any assertion that they care about human rights, democracy, etc.

It's historically demonstrable that we have overthrown democracies, installed dictators, tortured people, etc ad infinitum, when it suited our foreign policy goals.

As to your final point, I am an American too. I don't believe that we need to act in such a brutal way to retain power nor be a first world nation.

Also, I don't think those actions abroad are congruent at all with our asserted principles as Americans, such as human rights, democracy, right to due process, sovereignty, etc.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Going into this election I didn't doubt many of the Clinton conspiracy theory's were true. I have no respect for our politicians.

I tend to think that all politicians are dirty, and the clintons have been politicians for longer than most.

However, after looking into all the scandals that have been reported. I have come to the conclusion that it's not the clintons that are dirty They are no worse than the rest....it's the system that's broken....

The reason there is never any wrong doing found, when these scandals are investigated by the FBI and GOP led congressional committees (the same republicans pushing the scandal in the first place). Is because it is all normal operating procedures for our politicians, made legal by different politicians generations ago...


Exhibit A: the DNC Email leak.

Those emails were private. They were never meant to be public records. So hypothetically the authors had no real reason to lie or obfuscate. If they (the dems) were all rife with corruption the emails should show it. They should be the smoking gun of all smoking guns. No different than if y'all saw my text log...you instantly know most of my secrets....but there was no smoking gun...hell they can't even quote the parts that prove "pay for play" and the DNC rigging the convention, because there is no email that says that...AND THEY WERE PRIVATE, THERE SHOULD!!!


The worst one they can point to is :

"Has Bernie admitted he is an atheist, think he has dodged it and said he is of Jewish heritage..."

Which was a question no one ever even asked Sanders!!


Exhibit B: Juanita Broderick..including her with your 2 "accusers" was stupid when the other two have a legit varifiable case.

I didn't know the story of the rape allegations before the election, but they are the most thin BS you have ever heard. She has no proof of ever having a public or private conversation with the clintons. Didn't accuse him till decades later and has told 2 different republican investigators it didn't happen...

The GOP is using the excuse of "well they falsely accuse us too" BS then point to Clarence Tomas and other allegations that were never proven..


The GOP had it right that it was ridiculous to "always assume the accuser is telling the truth." It's a logical fallacy. You have to actually investigate criminal actions befor throwing around public accusations..obviously.


The GOP flip flops have proven exactly how principled they are. Exactly how much they care about "high Christian values"...

How do they go back to being the "moral " party after this???lol

How did they let a life long democrat destroy the gop?!?!

I think this is right. It's not the Clintons themselves, it's that the system is corrupt and most high level politicians at this point are bought out or compromised. These issues wayyyyy predate the Clintons.

That's why they never get charged and convicted...


The GOP crowd swears treason has been commited, then find no wrong doing, but they never admit it was BS.

I think that is 100% responsible for trump.


The base actually believed them!! So when no one goes to jail, they don't stop to question the whole scandal. They decide that everyone is lying and they can't trust ANYONE. Which is where trump came from..

He rammed all that mistrust right down their throats.

Of course they don't get charged and convicted. Dude, if other elites tried to take to task the Clintons, then that side of the axis would go after the Bush posse for their war crimes such as torture and Iraq. The Republicans know full well that they have their share of the crimes too. And when it comes to the higher level stuff like domestic surveillance and foreign imperial wars, both sides of the aisle close ranks and all vote for it or support it, with few exceptions.

Are you saying that Trump is an outsider who was able to ride this groundswell of mistrust, or are you saying that he is an insider just manipulating it?

And we are the world's beacon for democracy.if one side jails the other it will delegitimize democracy for the world.. let alone if it snowballed (and it would) like you mentioned.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

But evil implies intentional and no one intends to screw up.


I actually buy that out ME issues are due to keeping the US dollar the oil standard. Which makes the dollar the world standard.
Is it worth a couple wars to ensure your currency remains the global standard?? I have no idea.

What if we intended to destabilize the region? What if it's not a screw up and all this is exactly as planned? ISIS looks alot like controlled opposition, which would be intentional.

Killing people for money and contracts fits into my definition of morally corrupt.

Definitely a possibility...really works well since we could kill every terrorist and how would the American people know?!?

It's not a country.. you could just say they were still out there and keep the billions rolling in.


That's actually part of the oil standard conspiracy.

After the ottomans The west intentionally split up the ME in a way that would ensure chaos. That that way the Muslim countries could never unite against us and cut off the oil supply.

Which was (according to the theory) the reason for the establish meant of isreal..or at least the choice of location.

Yes, this is what I say to people who say "Look how idiotic our leadership is, the ME is in chaos and all of these people have died!" They are still operating under the false assumption that we are there primarily for producing stability, nation-building, democracy, human rights, etc. If we are there for global and regional hegemony, at any cost, then the goal may not be any of those aforementioned things.

I think they want both..but you rarely get that with a lazing invasion.

That said I'm an American. What if that is the reason we are the most powerful country?

I don't think the Pentagon and elite want both. Your average American, sure. The actions of the military-industrial complex over the past 60-70 years would absolutely fly in the face of any assertion that they care about human rights, democracy, etc.

It's historically demonstrable that we have overthrown democracies, installed dictators, tortured people, etc ad infinitum, when it suited our foreign policy goals.

As to your final point, I am an American too. I don't believe that we need to act in such a brutal way to retain power nor be a first world nation.

Also, I don't think those actions abroad are congruent at all with our asserted principles as Americans, such as human rights, democracy, right to due process, sovereignty, etc.

An outsider with the willingness to burn it all down but without ANY of the skills to required to rebuild it afterward..

We are not the world's beacon for democracy, at least not anymore. A number of countries in Northern Europe are doing far better now days, from less corruption to better freedom of the press to better standards of living.

Also, please note my previous post, where I described briefly how we have actually UNDERMINED democracy in many countries across the world.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14


We are not the world's beacon for democracy, at least not anymore. A number of countries in Northern Europe are doing far better now days, from less corruption to better freedom of the press to better standards of living.

Also, please note my previous post, where I described briefly how we have actually UNDERMINED democracy in many countries across the world.

I didn't say we did it the best lol. I said we were the Beacon. When you think of democracy, you think of Athens and then the USA and Athens was 3000 years ago lol

It would make us and by relation democracy "look" like a sham.