Wikileaks Podesta email leak Edgar Mitchell ETI claim

Mitchell has been talking about this for a long time:

"I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomena is real. It's been well covered up by all our governments for the last 60 years or so, but slowly it's leaked out and some of us have been privileged to have been briefed on some of it.

I've been in military and intelligence circles, who know that beneath the surface of what has been public knowledge, yes – we have been visited.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
Edgar entered the credibility range of Mr. Lear, and Captain Lazar in the last 20 years of his existence...

Can you give an example to back up the statement?

I haven't seen too much from Edgar myself but what little I have seen was nothing more than statements along the lines of "I've never personally seen anything myself but I've been told by people in the know that the phenomenon is real".

So I'd be interested to know what he said that made him lose his credibility.

I think you are correct. I think his only real claim was that he was "in the know". Obviously there is no way to verify such a claim. Personally, I don't think his claims are all that revealing. Seems more like a personal belief that was validated for him somehow.

He distanced himself from Greer and company...www.rense.com...

So I think that a lot of statements were misattributed to him an he got lumped in with those other guys.

The only other thing I know about him is that he was the founder of "The Institute of Noetic Sciences" which is a little "out there" but not in a bad way I don't think though the word "science" may be used a little loosely.

a reply to: billydebunker

Aliens on the Moon more chance of the Easter Bunny being true.

As for mile wide craft

Strange that with more photographic technology carried about now the evidence for claims has not got better.

We also have a large group of people on here with decent to professional gear that spend many a dark night in the middle of nowhere (me included) that KNOW how to use photographic equipment correctly yet we never see them, is it because we know what we are looking at.

You can see what we do on the thread "Calling all Astrophotographers" do a search.

originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
a reply to: spiritualarchitect

...He walked on the moon but was forced to uphold a lie about what he witnessed there.

Can you offer us the slightest corroborative evidence for this assertion beyond that YOU have no doubt it's true?

If you look back at Mitchell's various statements on the UFO controversy over the years, you'll find that initially he declared himself a firm believer in the ETI hypothesis, then -- by his own admission -- he was approached by shadowy characters (whom he never identified) who 'indoctrinated' him into the well-known rigmarole of Roswell, Majestic 12, and the rest, and after that became convinced of the truth of all these exotic ideas and promoted them almost religiously.

My take on all this is that once Mitchell had declared his personal beliefs, he was fed disinformation, and was occasionally encouraged to speak out on the subject. The whole Area 51/flying saucers business is a known distraction topic (Hillary Clinton has used it at least twice this year, and the Obama administration has encouraged it).

The UFO legend is incredibly useful to the secret state in a number of ways. From providing cover for new aircraft, to fuelling enemy speculation about advanced weaponry, to 'contaminating' legitimate areas of research, you name it -- peel away enough layers and you'll find that it's the US government that is promoting it.

This probably means hard work as in, setting up an avenue for disclosure, assuring source anonymity, avoiding drones and "cat burglars", etc. Saying "Russia hacked us" deflects the issue. They are calling bs, and you are looking to far into this statement imo.

Is there any possible way these could be fake?

With Dr. Mitchell, it was always a case of "I know a guy who says he has evidence that alien visitation real". Sometimes it was even "I know a guy who says he knows a guy who says alien visitation is real"

There has never been aby smoking gun when it came to Dr. Mitchell's evidence. he was basically some guy who was interested in the idea of alien visitation who did a lot of second-hand investigating into alien visitation.

Sure -- he was an astronaut, but his position as astronaut did not make him privy to secret information about alien visitation. All of his evidence is from after he left NASA, and was all gathered from hearsay.

originally posted by: Ghost147
Is there any possible way these could be fake?

email? Yeah, its probably one of the easiest things to fake. The best you could do to verify it is look at the headers to see where it originated from and then that only tells you where it originated from...maybe. Really anyone can send an email from anyone else. I once sent an email to my wife from my ex for April fools day. It was a hoot.

originally posted by: Paddyofurniture
Interesting but must be taken with a grain of salt.

Official Wikileaks site does have this and one other e-mail to confirm that their not fakes but...

Both are from Mitchell to Podesta. Their is no response or acknowledgement by Podesta as to what Mitchell is talking about.

Mitchell's history of ufology theories is shaky at best. Straight crazy at worst.

Find me a response by Podesta confirming any of this , then we have something.

that, and the fact that it's enough to open the website associated with that email address to see what this is about.

how is this not in hoax is beyond me.

for those too lazy to google, here it is: www.terrimansfield.com...
yet another bunch of lady-crackpots, hoping that some billionaires will buy their new age crap.

This is one of those times I'd much rather talk than type. There is too much to address....

First, I am generally skeptical (or more skeptical) at those "in the know" coming forward than your average Joe. After all there are the NDE agreements one should consider and he would be no more safe from potential prosecution than anyone else. Which, incidentally, would explain why it was always a 3rd person perspective with him.

He got air time, TV time to discuss his views and beliefs. If any of this were actually true that simply wouldn't happen. 90% possibly true and 10% BS but enough to steer you in a completely false narrative.

He has ties with a disinfo campaign.....also suspect.

In the same vein, Mr Oberg reminds me of controlled opposition. All perfectly made to obfuscate.

All that said, Mr Mitchell says a living universe. I believe that. A contiguous universe.....I believe that too.

"Non-violent ETI's" looking to grace warring barbarians with ZP energy? Now where have I heard that before.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
....
In the same vein, Mr Oberg reminds me of controlled opposition. All perfectly made to obfuscate.

Obfuscate? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

So you don't want to actually READ Mitchell's report on the famous Apollo-14 ESP experiment either? Why this monolithic passion to avert your eyes from probably the most original piece of paranormal research Mitchell has ever done?

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

First, I am generally skeptical (or more skeptical) at those "in the know" coming forward than your average Joe. After all there are the NDE agreements one should consider and he would be no more safe from potential prosecution than anyone else. Which, incidentally, would explain why it was always a 3rd person perspective with him."Non-violent ETI's" looking to grace warring barbarians with ZP energy? Now where have I heard that before.

Dr. Mitchell had said on many occasion that he did not learn any secrets about alien visitation when he was an astronaut. He is simply a guy who is interested in the phenomenon (lust like many people on ATS are interested in it). There are lots of people from all walks of life and with a variety of occupations who, similar to Mitchell, studied the phenomenon of alien visitors.

So he never had any "inside information" about alien visitors that he learned as an astronaut that would go against any non-disclosure agreement he might have with NASA. He even said as much, several times.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
With Dr. Mitchell, it was always a case of "I know a guy who says he has evidence that alien visitation real". Sometimes it was even "I know a guy who says he knows a guy who says alien visitation is real"

There has never been aby smoking gun when it came to Dr. Mitchell's evidence. he was basically some guy who was interested in the idea of alien visitation who did a lot of second-hand investigating into alien visitation.

Sure -- he was an astronaut, but his position as astronaut did not make him privy to secret information about alien visitation. All of his evidence is from after he left NASA, and was all gathered from hearsay.

True enough, but if you consider things from his view, that he had close friends or associates in the industry of space related technologies, who had top secret clearances and need to know about these things, then that is what he seems to be referring to. But on the other hand, if one is to never consider these kinds of sources or people, then that is were the story ends. So it is all up to the individual to either believe what he said, or not. Not a problem then.

One thing this does for many is to stimulate asking questions and studying related things more, and that isn't such a bad thing. I am sure a lot of our past and present astronauts were likely influenced by Edgar Mitchell as well as the other icons already gone. Maybe not because of any UFO related stuff, but just sayin'.

a reply to: JimOberg

So you don't want to actually READ Mitchell's report on the famous Apollo-14 ESP experiment either?

I got curious so I did a 5 minute google search and couldn't find the report. Is it available online anywhere?

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JimOberg

So you don't want to actually READ Mitchell's report on the famous Apollo-14 ESP experiment either?

I got curious so I did a 5 minute google search and couldn't find the report. Is it available online anywhere?

Ask yourself, WHY wouldn't Mitchell want anybody to read the original report, just his public version in his books?

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JimOberg

So you don't want to actually READ Mitchell's report on the famous Apollo-14 ESP experiment either?

I got curious so I did a 5 minute google search and couldn't find the report. Is it available online anywhere?

Ask yourself, WHY wouldn't Mitchell want anybody to read the original report, just his public version in his books?

The obvious answer would be that people that know statistics and how to do real controlled experiments would read it. If the experiment was horribly flawed and he wanted to promote the experiment as a success then he might want to control how its presented. Lots of reasons really but I cant think of a good one.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JimOberg

So you don't want to actually READ Mitchell's report on the famous Apollo-14 ESP experiment either?

I got curious so I did a 5 minute google search and couldn't find the report. Is it available online anywhere?

Ask yourself, WHY wouldn't Mitchell want anybody to read the original report, just his public version in his books?

The obvious answer would be that people that know statistics and how to do real controlled experiments would read it. If the experiment was horribly flawed and he wanted to promote the experiment as a success then he might want to control how its presented. Lots of reasons really but I cant think of a good one.

The publisher owns the copyright, but Mitchell never put it on his own website when he could have. I think it's because when you read it and see the sequence of arbitrary adjustments made to the data sets to enhance 'statistical significance', it looks all too plainly what it really is -- starting with random guesses, redefining 'success' criteria, and metaphorically painting the desired bull's-eye around the arrow AFTER you've shot it into the wall.

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
Edgar entered the credibility range of Mr. Lear, and Captain Lazar in the last 20 years of his existence...

Can you give an example to back up the statement?

I haven't seen too much from Edgar myself but what little I have seen was nothing more than statements along the lines of "I've never personally seen anything myself but I've been told by people in the know that the phenomenon is real".

So I'd be interested to know what he said that made him lose his credibility.

Here are some examples of a good, brilliant mind gone bad.

www.bloomberg.com...
UFO Cover-Ups Must End, Moonwalker Edgar Mitchell Says
July 16, 2013

James M. Clash is the author of “The Right Stuff: Interviews with Icons of the 1960s” (AskMen, 2012).

Clash: You’re also known for your views on UFOs. What’s your experience regarding the Roswell, New Mexico, incident of 1947?
Mitchell: After my space flight, I was contacted by descendants of the original Roswell observers, including the person who delivered the child-sized coffins to the Air Force to contain alien bodies. Another was one of the children of the deputy sheriff who was patrolling traffic around the site.
Alien Bodies
There was also a military officer who was a friend of the families not involved in that particular operation, but who did share office space there. They all seemed credible with their stories that the bodies found were alien.
Clash: If that’s the case, why has it been hushed up?
Mitchell: Initially I think there was justification in that leadership officials thought people weren’t ready to handle it. But we are well past that now.

Clash: Have you ever seen a UFO yourself?
Mitchell: I consider myself fairly well informed, although I have not seen one personally. I’m not out there looking -- I’m pretty busy.
----------------------
heavy.com...
Edgar Mitchell & Aliens: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Published 6:29 pm EDT, February 5, 2016

1. Edgar Mitchell Believed UFOs Belonged to Aliens, Including One at the Roswell Crash
2. He Said He Met With Officials From Three Countries Who Had Personal Encounters with Aliens
3. Mitchell Said There Is a Huge Alien Coverup, But NASA Is Not Involved
4. He Had Other Controversial Views, Including Remote Healing and ESP
5. He Did Not Believe Aliens Stopped Nuclear War, Despite Media Claims in 2011

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JimOberg

So you don't want to actually READ Mitchell's report on the famous Apollo-14 ESP experiment either?

I got curious so I did a 5 minute google search and couldn't find the report. Is it available online anywhere?

Ask yourself, WHY wouldn't Mitchell want anybody to read the original report, just his public version in his books?

The obvious answer would be that people that know statistics and how to do real controlled experiments would read it. If the experiment was horribly flawed and he wanted to promote the experiment as a success then he might want to control how its presented. Lots of reasons really but I cant think of a good one.

The publisher owns the copyright, but Mitchell never put it on his own website when he could have. I think it's because when you read it and see the sequence of arbitrary adjustments made to the data sets to enhance 'statistical significance', it looks all too plainly what it really is -- starting with random guesses, redefining 'success' criteria, and metaphorically painting the desired bull's-eye around the arrow AFTER you've shot it into the wall.

skepdic.com...
Edgar Mitchell's ESP experiment

The followiing is from my review of Entangled Minds (EM), a sequel to Dean Radin's 1997 defense of psychic phenomena The Conscious Universe (CU).

the Edgar Mitchell ESP fiasco

Another example of Radin's distorted history of psi research is his claim that astronaut and psi enthusiast Edgar Mitchell (1930-2016) conducted a "successful ESP card experiment from the Apollo 14 space capsule" (p. 76). Mitchell is a founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, where Radin is employed as a senior scientist. The experiment was unauthorized, so NASA did not set aside a nice block of time for Mitchell to conduct his experiment. News reports based on interviews with Mitchell indicate that he went through a hand-made Zener ESP deck several times while four friends on Earth tried to get psychic messages (either from Mitchell's mind [telepathy] or from the cards [clairvoyance]. Mitchell didn't use a Zener deck, however. He said:

The well-known experiment in the laboratory was to use cards with the five Zener symbols, but the actual cards aren't important. It was easier for me to use random number tables than carry the physical cards. Instead, all I did was to generate four tables of 25 random numbers just using the numbers 1 to 5. Then I randomly assigned a Zener symbol to each number. For each transmission, I would then check the particular table of random numbers and think about the corresponding symbol for 15 seconds. Each transmission took about 6 minutes.*

We know that there was a prearranged time when Mitchell and his friends would do their trials, but that problems prevented things from going as planned. As a result, the recorded guesses on Earth were made before Mitchell went through the trials. No problem. In his published paper on the experiment, Mitchell just changed the goal to a study of precognition! (Mitchell's paper, "An ESP Test from Apollo 14," was published in the Journal of Parapsychology in 1971.) He also stated in an interview that the fact that the timing was off didn't matter:

That didn't seem to make any difference. We took off forty minutes late but I didn't try for an exact time anyway, just in the evening. We now understand why that should work, because the sequence is important but having the precise time is not.*

This is fantastic news for psichologists. It means that in an ESP study one can use data collected anywhere and any time to use as proof of psi. How could you not like such a cooperative thing to study?

Original news reports made it sound like there were 200 trials, leaving one to conclude that Mitchell went through his tables eight times (there are 25 cards in a standard Zener deck). Since there are five symbols (or numbers) in each table, chance guessing would be one of five, or 20%. Mitchell reported that two subjects performed better than chance and two performed worse than chance. What a shock! This is what you'd expect from chance. News reports indicated that the group got 51 correct, which would be a hit rate of 25.5%, not bad for an individual guessing 200 times, but not statistically significant for a group of four. No problem. Mitchell provided the New York Times with the number 3,000 to 1 as being the odds against getting the results he got. Maybe this is where Radin learned to use statistical odds as a substitute for evidence.

A closer look reveals this story is typical of the history of psi: much ado about nothing except manipulation and deception by the defenders of psi. Here is an abstract of Mitchell's experiment (S=receivers or subjects, E=the experimenter and sender):

Preflight arrangements were made with 4 Ss noted for ESP ability for a short "unofficial" experiment, to be carried out while the author, who served as the E, was on the Apollo 14 mission. On 6 different days the Ss were to guess the symbol order in 1 target run of 25 symbols being concentrated on by the E. Actually, E was able to carry out only 4 target runs, and the timing arrangements could not be met under flight conditions. The Ss, a, b, c, and d, made 6, 6, 1, and 2 runs of guesses, respectively, (a total of 15) to be checked against the 4 target runs brought back by E. The major problem was to determine, before checking, how the Ss probably oriented their efforts to guess the series of 4 target columns. Three independent analyses were conducted. In the 1st, the view was that as in a precognition test the sequence of 4 target runs on the record sheet would be the natural aim of the S. There were 8 runs (4 each by a and b) that could be checked by this plan; they gave a deviation of +11. The odds are 20:1 against chance. The 2nd analysis, initiated by E, aimed at determining the relationship between the guesses and the time proximity of the targets. There were 12 runs in this group (2 runs that overlapped were omitted) and these gave a very negative deviation having odds of 3,000:1. A 3rd analysis, also with below-chance results having odds of 25:1, followed an independent plan that cut across the other 2 analyses. The 1st 2 analyses, committed in advance, are independent of each other. The deviation in the 1st was positive, that in the 2nd, negative, indicating a psi-differential response by the Ss. This effect is further revealed in the reversed direction of distribution curves of hits within the runs for the 2 analyses.*

Cutting through the gobbledygook, ...

The article is slightly longer, but too long for the ATS word limit. Go to the above URL link to finish reading how absurd Mitchell became. He was not alone. Another bright-brain astronaut showed that having a high education and achieving exceptional success did not prevent him from showing that religious beliefs control the believers with bs.

www.theguardian.com...
How Buzz Aldrin's communion on the moon was hushed up
Matthew Cresswell