DNA Dethroned - Inheritance is Protein-Based.

cont'd a reply to: PhotonEffect
a reply to: raymundoko

Soficrow also does not understand that the article is saying they can use prions to OVERIDE genetic inheritences.

I referenced several articles on the subject, not just one. And that’s NOT what the articles say. Take this one from phys.org:

Prions can pass on beneficial traits

The study… indicates that… protein-based inheritance is more widespread than previously believed, and could play a role in evolution.

In fact, I have been saying for years that epigenetic mechanisms can overide the genetic code - that DNA is like the hardware, while epigenetic mechanisms are like the software. So that’s MY line.

As for the phrase “protein-based inheritance,” I copied it:

Cell.com. Remembering the Past: A New Form of Protein-Based Inheritance

A comprehensive analysis uncovered a set of yeast proteins promoting protein-based inheritance that shares many of the non-Mendelian properties of prions. Lacking any sequence or structural signatures of known prions, these proteins represent a new class of non-amyloid, protein-based epigenetic determinants that can control phenotype without impacting genotype.

Transient Expression of Intrinsically Disordered Proteins Fuels the Emergence of Adaptive Protein-based Heritable Traits

…Such protein-based inheritance was also common in wild yeast strains.

Prions in Saccharomyces and Podospora spp.: Protein-Based Inheritance

2012: Discovering Protein-based Inheritance through Yeast Genetics

…yeast has prions (infectious proteins), proteins that are the carriers of genetic information, and thus are acting as genes (1).

Investigating protein conformation-based inheritance

cont'd a reply to: PhotonEffect
a reply to: raymundoko

Your traits are inherited via your parents via DNA/genes.

DNA is like the hardware; epigenetic mechanisms are like the software; and prions are an epigenetic mechanism that broadly governs adaptive traits.

IDPs (intrinsically disordered proteins) can drive multiple mechanisms of protein-based inheritance, each of which broadly governs adaptive traits in nature.

cont'd a reply to: PhotonEffect
a reply to: raymundoko

Prions have the ability to alter traits true, but his subject: DNA Dethroned - Inheritance is Protein-Based, is a lie. No such thing has happened except in his own mind.

I combined different titles about the same subject. It’s called a title btw, not a subject, and yes, it was written to be a bit ssensational.

[exOctober 6, 2016: DNA dethroned?

Stanford Medicine

Cell.com. Remembering the Past: A New Form of Protein-Based Inheritance

A comprehensive analysis uncovered a set of yeast proteins promoting protein-based inheritance that shares many of the non-Mendelian properties of prions. …

cont'd a reply to: PhotonEffect
a reply to: raymundoko

Soficrow brings this up every few months and thinks he knows better than actual scientists.

I quote the scientists and scientific journals, unlike you, who references wikipedia or nothing.

And I am not a “he.” A bit of a nerd maybe, but one with a vagina. My name is Sofi Crow. Get it? “Sofi.” Female.

He believes all traits are epigenetic and that DNA and Genes have nothing to do with anything.

I do not believe any such thing. You are not psychic. You are wrong.

end of response to a reply to: PhotonEffect
a reply to: raymundoko

The subject of this post is ridiculous hogwash. No scientist would agree with the poster. But hey, let's all believe arm chair researches with google and a tad bit of free time.

I report responsibly on new research. Speaking of hogwash, your preconceptions, assumptions and presumptions clearly make it difficult for you to process new information.

a reply to: raymundoko

You have been slinging a lot of mud, and making one false accusation after another.

You clearly have not read any of the studies and articles referenced, or you do not understand them, OR you are campaigning to dismiss the legitimate work of legitimate scientists.

How unfortunate.

Epigenetic information is still contained within the DNA genome of an organism. The information to produce proteins is also still contained within the DNA genome. DNA is not dethroned. The evolutionary motivated philosophy of junk-DNA and pseudogenes is though.

a reply to: soficrow

Neither of which happened. Your ego getting hurt does not mean an ad hominem attack was perpetrated.

a reply to: soficrow

Another out of context lie on your part. The Wiki link I originally provided has peer reveiwed papers from the mid 90's. You obviously got your information from an anti big pharma blog.

a reply to: soficrow

That's exactly what the article said.

You then interject a straw man, I never said there was no such thing as protein based inheritence, quite the opposite. I even said this has been accepted science for DECADES. One of the papers was from 1998.

a reply to: soficrow

Yet again you don't understand a paper you link. That paper is discussing how "mutations" can occur for adaptation, and make note from the paper you obviously did not read: IT DOES NOT SEEM TO INFLUENCE FUTURE GENERATIONS. It's temporary, however the length of how long one of these adaptive mutations would last is inconclusive. The DNA/Genes correct themselves over time. It's obvious you only read the abstract or a blog that linked to it. This epigenetic data is stored in DNA. This is a big step in solving gaps in the theory of evolution.

a reply to: soficrow

Then you should have never argued. You openly admit you lied in your subject and now you are mad you got called on it.

a reply to: soficrow

I read every single one of them. YOU did not. YOU only have access to abstracts and blogs.

For your information, I prefer to link Wiki to people who lack scientific knowledge because it's easier for them to ingest the information there. Obviously, as is the case here, when people not educated in a field read a paper, they can become extremely confused.

originally posted by: whereislogic
Epigenetic information is still contained within the DNA genome of an organism.

This work investigates protein-based inheritance, which is NOT contained in the DNA.

Cell.com. Remembering the Past: A New Form of Protein-Based Inheritance

A comprehensive analysis uncovered a set of yeast proteins promoting protein-based inheritance that shares many of the non-Mendelian properties of prions. Lacking any sequence or structural signatures of known prions, these proteins represent a new class of non-amyloid, protein-based epigenetic determinants that can control phenotype without impacting genotype.

Transient Expression of Intrinsically Disordered Proteins Fuels the Emergence of Adaptive Protein-based Heritable Traits

…Such protein-based inheritance was also common in wild yeast strains.

Prions in Saccharomyces and Podospora spp.: Protein-Based Inheritance

2012: Discovering Protein-based Inheritance through Yeast Genetics

…yeast has prions (infectious proteins), proteins that are the carriers of genetic information, and thus are acting as genes (1).

Investigating protein conformation-based inheritance

The information to produce proteins is also still contained within the DNA genome.

Yes, but not the information to produce all prions and all their conformations, which is where/how the information is stored.

IDPs (intrinsically disordered proteins) can drive multiple mechanisms of protein-based inheritance, each of which broadly governs adaptive traits in nature.

DNA is not dethroned.

DNA is dethroned as the one and only method of inheritance. Granted, scientists have recognized that for some time, but the information and publicity campaigns targeted to the public do not. With the result that the public still thinks DNA is the one and only king of inheritance. A bad thing.

a reply to: raymundoko

Yet again you don't understand a paper you link. That paper is discussing how "mutations" can occur for adaptation, and make note from the paper you obviously did not read: IT DOES NOT SEEM TO INFLUENCE FUTURE GENERATIONS. It's temporary, however the length of how long one of these adaptive mutations would last is inconclusive. The DNA/Genes correct themselves over time. It's obvious you only read the abstract or a blog that linked to it. This epigenetic data is stored in DNA. This is a big step in solving gaps in the theory of evolution.

You don't understand - the 'mutations' referred to are prion mutations, also called 'strains,' which have to do with the prions' shape-shifting capacities.

Prions affect gene expression, but only when required - the ability to do so is carried through the generations, sometimes for hundreds of thousands of years, without changing the DNA aka the genetic code.

The DNA/Genes do NOT "correct themselves over time" - they are NOT AFFECTED.

Some epigenetic data are stored in RNA, not DNA (tsk) - and prions are a different kettle of fish altogether.





Ed. to add: I agree with your confession, "Obviously, as is the case here, when people not educated in a field read a paper, they can become extremely confused."

a reply to: soficrow

What exactly are you correcting? Are you just talking to talk? Nobody has stated anything contrary to what you just said. The DNA/Genes correct the mutations over time. That is what I meant by "them". The organism itself is corrected via Genes/DNA because the epigenetic factors appear to be temporary.

The only thing that you have been called on is your incorrect and unscientific title. You already admitted it was a sensationalist lie. That should be the end of our discussion.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: soficrow

What exactly are you correcting? Are you just talking to talk? Nobody has stated anything contrary to what you just said. The DNA/Genes correct the mutations over time. That is what I meant by "them". The organism itself is corrected via Genes/DNA because the epigenetic factors appear to be temporary.

The only thing that you have been called on is your incorrect and unscientific title. You already admitted it was a sensationalist lie. That should be the end of our discussion.

This thread's title combines half of 1 title with half of another. It is not a lie - nor is it incorrect and unscientific. It's about "Protein-Based Inheritance." Legitimately.

RE: Your statements referring to epigenetic mechanisms and prions:

* "The DNA/Genes correct the mutations over time." WRONG. The only mutations relevant to this discussion are prion strains - and they have NOTHING to do with DNA. That's what this research proves.

* "The organism itself is corrected via Genes/DNA because the epigenetic factors appear to be temporary." WRONG. RNA, not DNA, governs most epigenetic mechanisms. Prions are another story, and NOT governed by either DNA or RNA. Expression is temporary, and the resultant traits are transient, but the prion protein-based inheritance information can persist for hundreds of thousands of years.

You do not understand epigenetic mechanisms, prions or the adaptive evolutionary process.

a reply to: soficrow

You again are talking just to talk. Nobody has made the claims you are making. You are legitimately confused.

For example:

The DNA/Genes correct the mutations over time." WRONG. The only mutations relevant to this discussion are prion strains - and they have NOTHING to do with DNA. That's what this research proves.

That's exactly what I said...The mutations caused by the prions have nothing to do with DNA/Genes, however the DNA appears to correct the mutations in future generations. The very papers you are linking said this. Why are you so hung up on this oversight on your part? So your title is two out of context snips combined into a lie. So you lied with your subject. No scientist agrees with you.

a reply to: raymundoko

...the DNA appears to correct the mutations in future generations. The very papers you are linking said this.

Provide a quote with a working link or stop spewing.

a reply to: soficrow

I already did, and you are the one accusing me of not reading the information? How curious...

a reply to: raymundoko

You did not quote or link to any primary source. You made broad general statements about my personal characteristics, what you refer to as "the article," and linked to a wikipedia overview written without reference to this latest research.

Here is "the article" abstract, again, from Pubmed as published in the Journal "Cell." As you can see, it refers specifically to protein-based inheritance in the title and text, and states clearly that protein-based epigenetic determinants can control phenotype without impacting genotype.

Remembering the Past:
A New Form of Protein-Based Inheritance.

A comprehensive analysis uncovered a set of yeast proteins promoting protein-based inheritance that shares many of the non-Mendelian properties of prions. Lacking any sequence or structural signatures of known prions, these proteins represent a new class of non-amyloid, protein-based epigenetic determinants that can control phenotype without impacting genotype.
Copyright © 2016 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
PMID: 27716500 DOI: 10.1016/j.cell.2016.09.036

format clarity

a reply to: soficrow

Yet again you're making an argument where none is. I get it that you are very sensitive, but no personal attacks have been perpetrated. I absolutely provided a link to the paper which is not the red herring you included. It's not my fault you aren't reading your own thread.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: soficrow

....I absolutely provided a link to the paper which is not the red herring you included.

You did not, and are unable to prove that you did. The "red herring" you refer to is the Pubmed citation of the original report published in the Journal "Cell." Here it is again, followed by the report from Eureka Alert and the link to the original Cell report as provided in the OP.

Remembering the Past:
A New Form of Protein-Based Inheritance.

A comprehensive analysis uncovered a set of yeast proteins promoting protein-based inheritance that shares many of the non-Mendelian properties of prions. Lacking any sequence or structural signatures of known prions, these proteins represent a new class of non-amyloid, protein-based epigenetic determinants that can control phenotype without impacting genotype.
Copyright © 2016 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
PMID: 27716500 DOI: 10.1016/j.cell.2016.09.036

Revising the meaning of ‘prion’

...When the team examined the human cognates of the prion-proteins, the intrinsically disordered domains were conserved over hundreds of millions of years.

Intrinsically disordered proteins drive emergence and inheritance of biological traits

a reply to: soficrow

I absolutely did, and you linking the same paper over and over (which is not the one I referenced and doesn't agree with your view that DNA has been dethroned) doesn't change that fact. You are embarrassing yourself.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: soficrow

....you linking the same paper over and over (which is not the one I referenced and doesn't agree with your view that DNA has been dethroned) ...

A link to Wikipedia -without even a specific quote- is NOT a "reference."

Moving along, here is a great 2014 paper that helps explain how prions are beneficial.

Rebels with a cause: molecular features and physiological consequences of yeast prions.

Prions are proteins that convert between structurally and functionally distinct states, at least one of which is self-perpetuating. The prion fold templates the conversion of native protein, altering its structure and function, and thus serves as a protein-based element of inheritance. Molecular chaperones ensure that these prion aggregates are divided and faithfully passed from mother cells to their daughters. Prions were originally identified as the cause of several rare neurodegenerative diseases in mammals, but the last decade has brought great progress in understanding their broad importance in biology and evolution. Most prion proteins regulate information flow in signaling networks, or otherwise affect gene expression. Consequently, switching into and out of prion states creates diverse new traits – heritable changes based on protein structure rather than nucleic acid. Despite intense study of the molecular mechanisms of this paradigm-shifting, epigenetic mode of inheritance, many key questions remain. Recent studies in yeast that support the view that prions are common, often beneficial elements of inheritance that link environmental stress to the appearance of new traits.
PMID: 25667942
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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