Tennessee Mom Throws A Fit When Her Daughter Learns About Islam In School

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: surnamename57

A small number are using the religion to excuse their fanaticism.

The issue seems to be that, at present, most of the fanatics committing terroristic actions appear to be Muslim. That causes me to believe there is a cult of violence within the religion, just as there has historically been with Christianity. The solution is to surgically remove the cult, not to condemn the religion.

Islam is not the problem. Violent fanatics are the problem.

TheRedneck

I was speaking of their extreme religiosity (tantum religio potuit suadere malorum), not of their religion. But anyway, I agree with you.

www.theglobeandmail.com...

time.com...

www.truth-out.org...

www.ynetnews.com...

we might hear of the islamic fanatics and their violent acts more often, but, fanaticism has been rising up in all of the major religions.

a reply to: surnamename57
Religious fanaticism worries me no matter what religion it comes from. Nothing more scary than a religious zealot. If you are at the point where you need violence to make people believe what you worship then you are doing it wrong.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Teaching a religion, I agree with you. That would be, in my opinion, preaching. So, that's a no-no so far as I'm concerned.

But that curriculum above, if followed, doesn't teach a religion, as much as it tells of it, tells the story of it, if you will.

I know that comes across as semantic games, but I can see a difference.

No, teachers should not be preaching a religion in a public school setting. On that we're totally agreed. Teaching about one for general knowledge is combating ignorance, which is what school is supposed to be about, but all too often isn't.

a reply to: seagull

I agree with the curriculum under discussion. There have been plenty of cases that weren't so innocent, however, and quite a few more concerning Christianity than Islam.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

That I know.

My fourth grade teacher, Mrs. Anderson, was a very devout Catholic. We'd have walked through fire for her. It's safe to say she was adored. Old lady, close to retirement, somewhat jaded even after all those years of teaching, but we never doubted that she'd have walked through that same fire for us, and woe to the thing on the other side that had pissed her off.

It's been something just over forty years...and I still remember her as clear as day. Black hair shot with gray, done up in a bun at the back of her head. Reading glasses on a chain. She was slightly allergic to chalk, so used a chalk holder. She loved math, and reading. Especially reading to us. Every afternoon. Tom Sawyer. Huckleberry Finn (even though it was banned at that time by our school district). My first exposure to American great literature was through her.

Teachers like her are precisely why parents need to be involved. Mrs. Anderson could have taught us the world was flat, and we'd have believed her without reservation. None. Instead, she taught us to think. But imagine what she could have done had she been a White Supremacist, or the like? The damage would have been significant.

Huckleberry Finn was read to us as a lesson in attitudes towards those who are different. 19th century Irish were not welcome in many places--Huck Finn. Nor were blacks in Reconstruction South--Jim. I remember class discussions by fourth graders that were a match for anything here on ATS...in many ways superior. A whole lot less judgmental.

For those things, and more, I couldn't be more grateful for that wonderful old woman having been in my life at such a young and impressionable age.

Every once in a very great while she start to preach, but she'd catch herself and stop. If she had continued, the odds are very good I'd be Catholic today. That's how much influence a teacher can have.

Hopefully I haven't derailed this completely.

a reply to: seagull

Like you I don't want to derail this thread, and though this video is meant to be funny, some of the lessons in the classroom, don't always go as intended.

Teachers are challenged every day to meet the needs of their students, while meeting the rules, requirements and regulations placed on them by the school board.

Many children today are far more world and street savvy than I ever was.

a reply to: seagull

If I wanted, I could throw a few anecdotes in there with you. I'll not derail the thread completely, though; just one honorable mention: Mrs. Blevins, bless her heart, taught me to love math and probably was the person most responsible for putting me on the path to be the engineer I am today. Top 5, definitely.

When you mentioned Huckleberry Finn, though... I had to respond. I read that book myself, out of school, and it really opened my eyes to the problems blacks had suffered through. It was my first exposure to the truth. Recently, I found out it had been banned over that one word. The first and most poignant novel ever published in America that sought to expose the poor treatment of blacks, was banned because it contained a word that someone deemed to be 'racist.'

Sorry, but that always gets my goat.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

It does mine, too.

To date, I've been asked to leave three school board meetings that were discussing doing that very thing.

The discussion to reinstate Huckleberry Finn. (I was very enthusiastic about that...and wasn't in the mood to listen to bigot bleet...)

The second was, of all things, Harry Potter. (Well, he was an idiot, I just pointed it out in public...)

The third was revisiting the aforementioned Huckleberry Finn for banning again. (Dude shouldn't have called me a commie...seriously.)

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Truth there.

This discussion, even our off topic excursions, points out the need for teachers, administrators, parents, and students to communicate by every means necessary.

Had this been more carefully explained to this parent, she might not have protested so much. Or, if the teacher was in the wrong, the admin would have been able to rein them in.

It all comes down to communication. Has nothing to do with Islam itself, or only as a peripheral issue. It has nearly everything to do with folks sitting down and talking.

originally posted by: surnamename57

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: surnamename57

I know what it means to be an atheist. People's hypocrisy towards the laws their religion requires them to obey is one of the reasons I stopped being religious, but regardless if they want to be hypocrites then that is their perogative. If you don't want to call them Muslims, don't, but they DO call themselves Muslims. So when you start disparaging the violent Muslims then you should make sure to separate from the non-violent ones.

I have never considered real muslims as violent muslims. What worries me about them is, as I have stated above in this thread, their fanaticism, which in some ways serves as a starting material for jihad. A small number of them are exploiting the extreme religiosity of the largest part to carry out their eerie jihad.

This is true and THIS is the thing that must be recognized by the public at large so we can get over this rampant xenophobia that is gripping the country. It is often the loud, vocal minority that make the majority look bad and we should remember this when casting judgements.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: TheRedneck

Teaching a religion, I agree with you. That would be, in my opinion, preaching. So, that's a no-no so far as I'm concerned.

But that curriculum above, if followed, doesn't teach a religion, as much as it tells of it, tells the story of it, if you will.

I know that comes across as semantic games, but I can see a difference.

No, teachers should not be preaching a religion in a public school setting. On that we're totally agreed. Teaching about one for general knowledge is combating ignorance, which is what school is supposed to be about, but all too often isn't.

So as far as I see thr problem is who decides what's discussed. Ok if your teaching the tenants of islam and studying the shahada do you cover Martin Luther’s 95 Theses and discuss protestant beliefs. Do you think they should teach the Mormons 13 articles of faith you know thr one they try to annoy you with in airports. Discussing the history doesn't have to include lessons in there beliefs. That is further exploration that can be done but school isn't thr place. As homework having kids write the Shahada just seems inappropriate unless you discuss thr tenants of all religions. And we'll that isn't going to happen is it.

Me I'm a history major but I didn't look into religions until college. Learning about them earlier would just lead to confusion since to learn beliefs you have to understand why they believe them. That's why I read the quran for example. And contrasted is specifically with christianity. By the way they aren't the same religion like many believe.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Unfortunately and paradoxically, it is the fanatic minorities who make the history. Why? Because majorities remain silent. Whose blame is it? Of course, it is majorities' blame. Especially today when everyone can have a voice, whether by vote or through social media.

originally posted by: surnamename57
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Unfortunately and paradoxically, it is the fanatic minorities who make the history. Why? Because majorities remain silent. Whose blame is it? Of course, it is majorities' blame.

Good point. That was something I truly hadn't considered, but now that you bring it up it makes a lot of sense. This is why education is so important. It battles letting ignorance like this rule the day. This is why the right wing media's war against higher education scares me. It's like they WANT the country to be dragged back down into ignorance.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's not just right wing media that is helping dumb down education; it is all media and all political parties. The Department of Education is widely considered one of the most liberal government agencies.

There have been several times during my college career, mainly in 1st and 2nd year courses, when a student would ask about a news story they saw. The result has always been the same: the professor would laugh and try to explain that they have a choice: learn the actual technology from PhD's as they are paying to do, or listen to the uneducated making wild unbased claims. Usually he/she would quickly offer an explanation on the actual facts surrounding the issue.

The point being, 90% of what we see or hear on the news or especially from the pundits is pure propaganda spread by the willfully ignorant.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: surnamename57
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Unfortunately and paradoxically, it is the fanatic minorities who make the history. Why? Because majorities remain silent. Whose blame is it? Of course, it is majorities' blame.

Good point. That was something I truly hadn't considered, but now that you bring it up it makes a lot of sense. This is why education is so important. It battles letting ignorance like this rule the day. This is why the right wing media's war against higher education scares me. It's like they WANT the country to be dragged back down into ignorance.

Not only. It is the family envolvement above all.

A personal fact. My parents never nurtured me into religion. Perhaps that's why I am who I am.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's not just right wing media that is helping dumb down education; it is all media and all political parties. The Department of Education is widely considered one of the most liberal government agencies.

That's the problem. The left wing media may have it's own set of propaganda techniques, but the right insists that all of higher education is a liberal conspiracy or a part of liberal propaganda. Facts, education, and research aren't liberal conspiracies. Even then, if you still want to believe there is liberal bias in higher education then you need to work within the system to change that, not reject it entirely. That way the lean moves back to the center.

There have been several times during my college career, mainly in 1st and 2nd year courses, when a student would ask about a news story they saw. The result has always been the same: the professor would laugh and try to explain that they have a choice: learn the actual technology from PhD's as they are paying to do, or listen to the uneducated making wild unbased claims. Usually he/she would quickly offer an explanation on the actual facts surrounding the issue.

The point being, 90% of what we see or hear on the news or especially from the pundits is pure propaganda spread by the willfully ignorant.

TheRedneck

I agree that most of the news is propaganda. I just find the right's propaganda to be worse since it is so anti-education.

a reply to: surnamename57

I was raised Catholic, but my parents let me go my own way around the time I turned into a teenager. Though I didn't fully reject faith into my late 20's.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The way I see it is the right against educational advances and the left promoting indoctrination as education.

Both are a big problem, because both tend to dumb down society.

And I do work against it. I have campaigned vigorously to get some of the worst members of the local school board replaced. Unfortunately, most people have kids in school, are employed by the school system, or have close friends or family employed by the school system. There are numerous examples of action taken against students and employees to stifle political disagreement, so most people will not rock the boat.

TheRedneck