Yale Psychiatrist show that Psychic Abilities exist

originally posted by: neoholographic
Of course it did. Just read the article.

Why would they go to Psychics if Psychics weren't real and they didn't have these abilities?

...

Again, this confirms Psychics have the ability to control these voices to a degree. This is an ability Psychics have claimed they had and pseudoskeptics scoffed at.

Again, there's no need for these Psychiatrist to go to Psychics if Psychics aren't real. Whether you believe the Psychics are communicating with the dead or spirit guides is a mute point. Your opinion makes no difference in this case. You can't show they're not communicating with the dead or spirit guides but what we can show is that these conversations are real. This study along with others have shown this.

So again, the most you can say is you believe that Psychics aren't communicating with the dead or spirit guides but again, your subjective opinion of their abilities is meaningless.

There is a big hole in your logic somewhere that is sending you round in circles.

"Hearing voices" is being used here in two meanings.

In the first meaning, "hearing voices" refers to people who have some mental issue that causes their brain to think they are hearing something that doesn't actually exist. This is entirely internal. The voices are a fiction created by the mind.

In the second meaning, "hearing voices" refers to claims by people (such as psychics) that they are hearing something that actually really exists - that some external entity, such as a spirit or alien or another person's thoughts, are somehow making themselves heard by the person because of some special "gift".

Yale fully accepts that the psychics are "hearing voices", but in the first meaning of a mental illness. Yale does not, at any point, accept that the person is somehow communicating with some external entity as the psychics claim.

So what about the word "controlled"? People who hear voices (in the mental health sense) have got a varied relationship with the voices. Some people can ignore them or push them away. Some people are plagued and simply cannot escape. Some people have voices that say nasty things to them, some have voices that tell them to do things. Some even have voices that tell them to do things and the person feels powerless to resist. A lucky(!) few have voices that are actually supportive.

When the psychiatrists say the "psychics" have control, it simply means that they are able to ignore or minimalise the impact of the voices. It does not mean that this is some kind of controlled communication.

I applaud your persistence but you are very simply wrong. That pstudy does not, in any way shape or form, say what you are claiming it says.

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: Greggers

originally posted by: neoholographic

Sure they did.

No they didn't.

They made a statement just by going to Psychics. Again, why would they go to Psychics if they weren't real??

Phage already answered this. They wanted a group of people who claimed to hear voices who had not been diagnosed with a mental illness.

He didn't answer anything and neither did you.

They wanted a group of people who had these abilities. There's no need to even go to Psychics if psychic ability isn't real. That makes no sense. Sadly, you can't separate your subjective opinion vs. the objective fact that psychic ability is real. Your opinion of these abilities is meaningless.

I remember in another post you were confused about the terms subjective and objective...HERE WE GO AGAIN!

The researchers chose psychics because they were looking for a group of people who "heard voices" who were not plagued by negative experiences and the need for medication, the goal being to see if that population could help schizophrenics cope.

As in the other thread, the subject matter is relatively straightforward and you are defending an untenable position with vigor.

a reply to: neoholographic

I don't think there is any proof that these voices are spirit guides, but it is definitely interesting to know that a lot of psychics really do have healthy relationships with the voices in their heads... and then of course there is the possibility that these voices are spirits or something like that.

a reply to: Phage

No. Yale scientists did not show that psychic abilities exist.

Perhaps not, however I don't need Yale scientist to tell me that psychic abilities are real or not, I have had many psychic experience myself and confirmation they are very real.

I have met many people who possess the same gifts as I do. Most psychic do not talk about their gifts, they keep it to themselves because of ridicule.

Psychic have been around since the beginning of man and have been well recorded throughout history in every cultures.

I will agree there are many people who suffer from schizophrenia which is a mental disorder of hearing voices in their head.

The fact is, real psychics do not suffer from schizophrenia illness, they are born with these gifts.

originally posted by: neoholographic

They wanted a group of people who had these abilities. There's no need to even go to Psychics if psychic ability isn't real. That makes no sense. Sadly, you can't separate your subjective opinion vs. the objective fact that psychic ability is real. Your opinion of these abilities is meaningless.

No. here's the deal:

The Yale research was considering two types of people who hear voices in their head.

-- The first type were people who were tormented by those voices to the point that it affected their ability to function on a daily basis.

-- The second type were people who were NOT tormented by those voices.

The easiest way to find the second type of person -- people who hear voices in their heads but were NOT tormented by those voices -- was to use people who called themselves psychic.

That's it; That's why he chose self-proclaimed psychics as that second type of person. He chose them NOT because he believed there were actually psychic, but because they could still function well in life, even though they imaged hearing voices similar to a the way schizophrenic person (who has a difficult time functioning in society) imagines hearings voices.

a reply to: EvillerBob

You said:

In the first meaning, "hearing voices" refers to people who have some mental issue that causes their brain to think they are hearing something that doesn't actually exist. This is entirely internal. The voices are a fiction created by the mind.

How do you know Psychics are hearing something that doesn't exist?

Again, you guys don't understand that your subjective meaningless opinion of psychic ability. It's worthless.

This clearly shows psychic ability is real and when some psychics say they're conversating with the dead or spirit guides they're being truthful.

Your subjective opinion is they're not communicating with the dead or spirit guides but that opinion is meaningless.

a reply to: neoholographic


Your subjective opinion is that they're communicating with the dead or spirit guides but that opinion is meaningless.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: EvillerBob

You said:

In the first meaning, "hearing voices" refers to people who have some mental issue that causes their brain to think they are hearing something that doesn't actually exist. This is entirely internal. The voices are a fiction created by the mind.

How do you know Psychics are hearing something that doesn't exist?

Actually, it's the Yale study that is saying that they are hearing something that doesn't exist.

At this stage you've transitioned into either a troll or an untyped non-bizarre delusional disorder sufferer. Neither one is really conducive to further discussion.

originally posted by: EvillerBob
Actually, it's the Yale study that is saying that they are hearing something that doesn't exist.

I agree. It is absolutely clear from the context of the study that the researches are treating the voices of schizophrenia as the same clinical symptom being manifested in psychics. If it weren't the same symptom, they would not yield potential clinical benefit for schizophrenics.

At this stage you've transitioned into either a troll or an untyped non-bizarre delusional disorder sufferer. Neither one is really conducive to further discussion.

If indulged, this routine will continue for pages on end.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neoholographic


Your subjective opinion is they're communicating with the dead or spirit guides but that opinion is meaningless.

Of course it is so we're left with the facts:

Psychics say they're communicating with the dead and their spirit guides

Psychics are having real conversations with these voices

Psychics have some control over these voices

Psychics say they're talking to an astral voice or body

Susskind says we have another version of ourselves that live on the horizon.

Dirac talked about a mirror universe

French Physicist say we have a quantum self or a quantum double

Alan Guth, Brian Greene, Max Tegmark and others talk about these other universes.

Psychics help Police. They have sketches drawn of a criminal before the Police have a suspect and the sketch leads to the criminals arrest. They tell Police the criminals last name or where he lives.

These things are the facts that you can use to reach an informed decision.

Sadly, pseudoskeptics will never debate the facts because in most cases all they have is subjective opinion and hyperbole. So the fact is Psychic Ability is real, your subjective, meaningless opinion about these abilities is mute.

a reply to: EvillerBob

What??

Where did they say these Psychics were hearing something that doesn't exist? This makes no sense.

These voices exist and these Psychics are having real conversations with these voices and they have some control with these voices. Your subjective opinion about the meaning of these voices is meaningless.

How can you hear a voice that doesn't exist? Of course it exists. What you're debating is your subjective opinion as to the origin of these voices.

So if a Psychic hears a voice, it exists. This clearly supports that conclusion. Now if the voice says my name is Ralphy and I'm an 8 year old boy who was killed then the question is does Ralphy exists. Again, there isn't any question that the Psychic is talking to a voice that calls himself Ralphy. The only question is where did this voice come from? Did the Psychics brain conjur Ralphy up or is the Psychic communicating with the dead.

Your subjective opinion is that the Psychic's brain is playing tricks on them. Others will see it differently especially if Ralphy describes his killer to the Psychic and he tells the Psychic what kind of car his killer drove. The Police then have a sketch drawn up of the description which leads to a suspect that drove the same car Ralphy described.

This leads to the arrest and conviction of this person for the murder of Ralphy.

Again, your subjective opinion about the origin of these voices is meaningless. You will never debate that issue because you can't. I can list over 20 pages where these voices Psychics talked to helped solve real crimes.

a reply to: neoholographic

Like many have said already, I do not see any connection between the Opening Post and its title.

In any case, there is no point trying to prove that psychic abilities exist or not. To do so serves no purposes and helps no one. If I dream of the lottery winning numbers and go out and buy a ticket and I win, it is my own and no one else's business. There is no proof to be extracted here. I simply put faith in my dream , that's all.

A non-believer should carry on not believing until something happens to them that changes their attitude.

A believer should carry on believing until something or things make them believe otherwise.

In my view, our Raison D'etre on the physical plane is partly to make decisions; to navigate the uncertain waters and use our will and wisdom . We have the tools and we ought to use them. To look to the scientists in order to decide (e.g. whether psychic abilities exist or not) is the approach of the Led and not the Leaders

The point I am making is that we all know life is a mystery. However, Instead of experimenting directly with life (testing even the most abstract and impossible concepts for ourselves), it seems most people want to rely on science in order to move forward. Result is : Missed opportunities.

Most of what I have achieved in my life was through "willing" things to happen. At first things took a while to happen . Then it became easier and results materialise very quickly. There is no scientific proof that it is easy to "Will" things to happen. Should I therefore stop ? Should I walk into a laboratory for the benefit of people at large; to make them engage with natural forces ?

Coming back to the OP, I think the title was misleading. This is a pity since it is having the exact opposite effect to what it was supposed to have.

a reply to: crowdedskies

What?

I'm kind of tired of these long post that don't quote anything I said in the OP. Your whole post didn't include anything I actually said.

Yes, this shows psychic ability exists. This didn't show that these Psychics are communicating with the dead or their spirit guides. It's exactly what I have been saying throughout the thread.

Psychic ability is real and this is why they said they want to learn more about this ability. They said:

“These individuals have a much higher degree of control over the voices. They also have a greater willingness to engage with and view the voices as positive or neutral to their lives,’’ Corlett said. “We predict this population will teach us a lot about the neurobiology, cognitive psychology and eventually treatment of distressing voices.”

How can something that doesn't exist teach them A LOT in areas like neurobiology and cognitive philosophy?

originally posted by: crowdedskies

“These individuals have a much higher degree of control over the voices. They also have a greater willingness to engage with and view the voices as positive or neutral to their lives,’’ Corlett said. “We predict this population will teach us a lot about the neurobiology, cognitive psychology and eventually treatment of distressing voices.”

How can something that doesn't exist teach them A LOT in areas like neurobiology and cognitive philosophy?

Your quote does not support psychic abilities at all. What that quote is saying is simply that the psychic types (meaning those who call themselves "psychics") provide a different line of enquiry because they react differently to the voices.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy to see that you believe in psychic abilities. However, I do not think that the psychiatrist you are quoting believes in psychic abilities. He simply sees the pychics as giving hope to sufferers because of their positivity. He seems to think that psyhics will help in discovering the triggers that could help schizophenics better manage their condition

a reply to: crowdedskies

You just answered your own question. You said:

He seems to think that psyhics will help in discovering the triggers that could help schizophenics better manage their condition.

How do Psychics HAVE THE ABILITIES?

Where do these TRIGGERS that you're talking about come from? I will give you a clue...Psychics.

The Psychic ability of clairaudience is shown to exists and they have some control over these voices. The origin of these voices is a different debate.

originally posted by: crowdedskies
[
“These individuals have a much higher degree of control over the voices. They also have a greater willingness to engage with and view the voices as positive or neutral to their lives,’’ Corlett said. “We predict this population will teach us a lot about the neurobiology, cognitive psychology and eventually treatment of distressing voices.”

How can something that doesn't exist teach them A LOT in areas like neurobiology and cognitive philosophy?

Your quote does not support psychic abilities at all. What that quote is saying is simply that the psychic types (meaning those who call themselves "psychics") provide a different line of enquiry because they react differently to the voices.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy to see that you believe in psychic abilities. However, I do not think that the psychiatrist you are quoting believes in psychic abilities. He simply sees the psychics (those who declare themselves "psychics") as giving hope to sufferers because of their positivity. He seems to think that psychics will help in discovering the triggers that could help schizophenics better manage their condition and be happy

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: crowdedskies

You just answered your own question. You said:

He seems to think that psyhics will help in discovering the triggers that could help schizophenics better manage their condition.

How do Psychics HAVE THE ABILITIES?

Where do these TRIGGERS that you're talking about come from? I will give you a clue...Psychics.

The Psychic ability of clairaudience is shown to exists and they have some control over these voices. The origin of these voices is a different debate.

You are misreading the quote. For him the psychic are just people calling themselves "psychics". For all he knows , they could also be schizophrenics. Your psychiatrist is only interested in "happy" people who hear voices. So far the only "happy "people who hear voices are the so-called psychics. This is not surprising. There is only one way to feel OK about hearing voices. That is to think you have special powers. That is what the psychiatrist seems to be interested in. He is interested in the happy schizophrenics (who so far have been his "psychic" patients). Can't you see that the psychiatrist that you quoted DOES NOT believe in psychic abilities. He is only interested in "happy" schizophrenics for research. His guinea pigs are these "psychics" because he sees them as "happy" schizophrenics.

You have made a bad case for genuine psychics by quoting from someone who see them as no more than "happy" schizophrenics.

originally posted by: neoholographic

I'm just glad to see these Yale Psychiatrist realizing that Psychic ability is real and can help in some areas.

Too bad that's not what Yale Psychatrist said in their report. They said being nuts is real, and psychics are Nutcase Lite.