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"Hominoid" has been adopted to describe the controversial
family of upright walking hair-covered primates that live on
every continent on Earth except Antarctica. These primates
are known by different names in different cultures: Bigfoot in
the U.S., Sasquatch in Canada, Yowie in Australia, Yeti and
Abominable Snowman in the Himilayas, Alma in Eastern Europe,
and various other names around the world. These Hominoids are
generally dismissed as delusion or superstition by the bulk of
mainstream scientists, but a growing number of serious researchers
and specialists are investigating the obvious fact that these primates
exist and have existed on Earth for millions of years.
originally posted by: SensusCommunis
a reply to: Caver78
No apologies necessary. You're standing up for what you believe in. That is to be respected, whether I agree or not.
I have been involved with cryptozoology since reading Heuvalmans' "On the Track of Unknown Animals" in the late 60s.
It is an in depth study during all those years that has turned me into a skeptic and disbeliever.
In the case of Bigfoot, you have offered a lot of data concerning it's hunting/foraging habits. But can you offer even the tiniest evidence that can be indisputably substantiated by the scientific method to support that data?
There is tons and tons of data on Bigfoot, much of it contradictory. None of it substantiated even a microscopic bit by critical thinking, logical evaluation, or the scientific method, and no one who accepts the existence of Bigfoot can see the irony in that.
Being purely anecdotal does not automatically make something worthless. But to be of any value, there has to be more than just words.
Historian John Keay, not a direct quote:
"Myth is the Smoke of History. You may have to fan at it a good deal before you get a glimpse of the flame beneath; but when you see smoke, it is wisest not to pretend that it isn’t there."
There is the other argument to be made while we don't have hard scientific proof we do have evidence. It would be ridiculous to assume that over the last 500 years in North America, all over the entire continent, tracks and sightings have been continually hoaxed. That would be one massive concerted effort by multitudes of people over hundreds of years. There definitely has been enough evidence to warrant further study. Even Jeff Meldrum admits to that. One of the most famous of Bigfoot "fence sitters".
You are coming at this from the "it can't exist" perspective, I'm looking at it from the opposite. If it exist's, how, where, why.
So, it’s a number you just made up? This would make sense since almost everything about Bigfoot is, in fact, made up. It would be a lot easier to say Bigfoot is real and exists if it wasn’t so incredibly allusive. The best way to not be detected, is to not be real.
In other words, you believe we should dismiss history, logic and science to support a lot of empty testimony? Why would I take something that doesn’t exist seriously? That’s a rhetorical question. I wouldn’t.
So, the super intelligent Bigfoot, that live in less productive conditions than the Neanderthal, about a (made up) 50,000 years ago, learned to be smarter than the dopey humans (who have been around for thousands of years), who have gone on to send men to the Moon and make many astounding discoveries, which is how the Bigfoot can avoid the humans? Yea, right. What could make more sense?
Many scientists, mostly in the psychological sciences, make many parallels between us and early man, who was often on the menu. So I would have to disagree that human evolution “may have been the easiest road that there is in the cosmos”. The layman gives much less credit to human senses, which can be incredibly adaptive and keen (inherited from early man), than they deserve. Men and women in dire situations, especially during war, have proved this again and again.
Nonsense. There are thousands of pioneer journals, many of which can be seen by simply googling them. Only a tiny fraction of them, that I’m aware of, speak of anything closely resembling Bigfoot, and even those tiny few are too obscure to say it couldn’t have been a bear.
Aside from claiming, in the tale, that the “bear” had walked off on two legs, there is nothing in the narrative that leads us to believe that the “goblin” was anything other than a bear, which can appear to be walking on two legs when its tracks overlap.
No amount of “evolutionary learning” would allow them to escape discovery under those circumstances. Especially when they are so careless that there are thousands of people claiming to briefly see them.
So, humans, who know what is inside a molecule, who photograph the rarest animals on Earth, who cure many of the most puzzling diseases, who have solved many mysteries and near impossible to solve crimes, who can spot suspicious activity from a satellite photo, etc, are not very perceptive?
To the contrary, I'm not diminishing the intelligence of the Neanderthals, I'm stating that they lived more intelligently than Bigfoot is reported to live, even though, by all accounts, Bigfoot is much more intelligent than we are. Where is the art of Bigfoot? Their tools? Their habitat? You are correct when you say, "we just don't know", but you are incorrect when you speak for the Bigfoot believing community. They seem to think they know a great deal, despite the fact that they have absolutely nothing to substantiate their knowledge. Choose any topic about Bigfoot in this forum alone, and you'll see an encyclopedia of unsubstantiated knowledge. Not to mention all the ludicrous claims. One of my favorites: "You can feel their energy." Now we have Bigfoot whisperers.
Hey if you want responses, I have those to. And mine are more eclectic then yours.
Yes its a number I made up. However the number 10,000 is an actual number that exists in real life.
And I was joking on the whole bigfoot ninja of the forest. Its more like the big bumbling scratch and sniff of the forests, if people cant find it, that says nothing but on the people who cant find it. I mean you can clearly smell one fart from miles away.
What history? Most of history was invented but a few thousand years ago, and its changing daily depending on the ruling party.
No what I am saying is that even before 50,000 years ago aliens messed with the genome of various tribes and types of terrestrials and set up this whole chain of events. They are not smarter, they are inherently smarter, ie as everything you have has been handed to you on a silver pallet. Also imagine your a farmer and you want to breed a certain type of animal, this animal is a bit aggressive and may be a bit to smart to control. What do you do?
You make it stupider, you dumb it down and remove a lot of both cognitive functions and biological functions, seeing in the dark being the least, both by genetic means and by breeding, you kill off all the smarter parts of its species, and you set up rules and regulations so that it all progresses along the lines of that for at least a few hundred thousand years.
Its like breeding dogs, you dont want a dog that is capable of running in its own packs, you want a dog that is obedient and not only does not think of anything beyond that, but is not capable of anything beyond that. That is what the human race is, a convenient farm animal, only knowing what is set up for them to know.
No. It is and just may have been the easiest evolution in all the cosmos, in fact all the universe. All your wars have so far been just regular junk. With the current World Wars being merely a form of imposed speed up evolution toward certain centers. Men and women in dire situation usually die. End of story. If anything that war has proved is that even the slightest change and the whole deck and house of cards fall to the wayside fast.
OK, thousands my ass. And like anybody who has been outdoors for practically all there life and make there living that way would somehow not know the difference between a bear...
Well then this bear that walks on two legs stalked them for a few days, thrashed there camp more then once, and convenient waited for when they split up to sneak up snap the neck of one, throw him around the camp just to make sure then roll around on his carcass as a victory dance.
Says who? You!
Most if not all pictures of the inside of a molecule just like those close up pictures of other worlds are what is known as artist renditions.
And we cant be to bright of a mystery solver if we cant solve the case of bigfoot, # we cant even run a country with data and sophisticated technology in fact even blue prints written in plain hand it seems.
As for that whole feeling there energy. Its just mystifying talk for making your shoulder blades pick up, you would get the same feeling if you were to go out into the woods in the middle of the night and happen to hear a branch break in the back somewhere, or if you were put into a cage with a bear.
How does an eclectic response help you in an argument that requires logic, reason, and sound science?
All numbers exist in real life. How is that relevant to making up a number to support a false statement?
Actually, if millions of people dotting the habitat of tens, or hundreds, of thousands of hairy giants can’t find those giants, it wouldn’t be on the people; it would be on the lack of logic applied to those hairy giants, in light of the fact that people can eventually find every other animal they look for.
Can you please provide proof of that?
Can you provide proof for this claim? Especially the "aliens" part?
This is all merely unsupported opinion, with which all credible paleontologists, anthropologists, historians, and anyone who had been in battle would readily disagree.
How do you know the reports are from people who have been in the woods all their lives? What studies do you have to support the fact that even experienced people never make visual mistakes. Especially when intoxicated, frightened, weary of body and mind, etc?
1. There is no way to verify the truth or accuracy of this story.
2. I never stated that the bear walked on two legs. Now, perhaps you can tell me why Bigfoot would have stalked them, killed one, and let the other get away.
3. Bears have been known to stalk humans. A simple web search will give you a fair number of stories.
No, not says me. Says common sense and sound science, unlike the unsupported speculation you offered.
The remainder of this part of your response is also untrue. As for solving the mystery of Bigfoot; many of us did that a long time ago.
Until now, all of the drawings of molecules we’ve ever seen (or been forced to look at) were educated guesses based on the scientific information at hand. Now, due to photography at the most infinitesimal level, scientists no longer have to guess. It won’t make O-Chem any more interesting, but at least now you’ll be studying something that you’ve seen IRL.
You seem to be mistaking feeling “energy” with feeling fear. As for the remainder of this part of your response: It’s not what you believe or disbelieve. It’s what makes the most sense, and what science can definitively detect.
And were are all these things in your arguments?
Because it was a made up number and also yes you are quite correct made up numbers also exist in real life. And also the whole total population of a species can exist in only the tens of thousands, though I know that may be hard for you to believe that to exists in real life.
Most humans would be hard pressed to find the light at the end of a tunnel. And yes, how are they going to find all that, by rowing one hour down a river? Driving to the nearest rest stop off the highway and getting out to look whats on the side of the road in the bushes? That so far entails all Bigfoot search.
Duh! Have you read a history book? Well all of history is prof that history is not only changed, but changed constantly. The only thing required to make any human believe anything including things that are bad and detrimental for them is to have it be established.
You want proof of aliens? Are you silly or something? Why the hell would I want to do such a thing?
Offcourse its an opinion, but based on all the other creatures I have seen on the cosmos it just may be true.
I was talking about a very specific story, from over 18who know what, about a man who actually did all that, its what they did.
There are other stories about other stuff, from looking at that site the first one I clicked on was a diary which consisted of what looked like pages and pages of "it was pleasant today" and it went on like that for each journal entry. But hey they were on the march at least they did not get into the nitty gritty details about corn and potato crops. though it would have made it more interesting and add plot, or at least to that particular story.
So all the other stories are verified, but one which was mentioned by a president even is not verifiable, after all the guy could have just been telling stories.
Bigfoot it followed them from camp to camp. Waiting in the treeline and bushes at night making noises trying to scare them, did that for a few days, even probably emptied there traps as they were still not getting anything...
Who knows maybe it was felling territorial and didnt like the smell of them, or since it rolled around the guys carcass after it killed him, could be a hunting ritual whatever and whoever did it has.
It does not sound like stalking bear behavior.
Sorry I dont know what your talking about.
Yes I am quite sure with all your poking your head in the tree stump.
Now who is posting blurry images. Gee how did I know you were going to post those.
So were exactly in that "picture" is the oxygen and carbon bond? And were exactly is the nitrogen atom or the electrons bonds at in that picture?
Like I said they call it a different name. But its the same thing, most people who have encountered this bigfoot felt that same sort of energy, some even peed there pants. Some even had cameras in there hands by there own account but didnt think or were to frightened to think to take a picture. So ya, they were definitely feeling the energy.
I was talking about those energies. Dont know what energies your talking about.
You can see demons, but not logic, reason, and sound science. Go figure.
Not according to MVP statistics, which are not made up.
And yet, so many people claim to see Bigfoot. From the lack of credit you give humans in general, all sightings should be dismissed as human error. I, on the other hand, am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if they can somehow substantiate their claims.
I have read many history books. Please show me all these constant “changes” that I’m missing. Also tell me how it applies to the made up history of Bigfoot.
No, I want proof that “aliens messed with the genome of various tribes and types of terrestrials...” I didn’t expect you to provide proof for “aliens” anymore than you could provide proof for Bigfoot.
How can you know so much about two men from a second hand story, that you can absolutely determine their abilities?
And Bigfoot has killed so many trappers and campers that it sounds like Bigfoot stalking behavior?
You seem to be sure of many things you cannot substantiate. Why would it be necessary to poke one’s head in a tree to determine the unlikely existence of Bigfoot? All one need do it look around.
Bigfoot enthusiasts post blurry images. I linked to a photograph of a molecule, about which you said, “Most if not all pictures of the inside of a molecule just like those close up pictures of other worlds are what is known as artist renditions.”
Are you denying that it is a photograph of a molecule.
Fair enough. But how does the lack of detail diminish my point of human endeavor an progress which you so completely put down? Especially in light of the fact that you know what to look for and ask about in the molecule?
“You can also be able to feel their energy, by being sensitive yourself, and the energy being emanated actually being powerful, mmmmm, good stuff!” And you’re interpreting this as “fear”? Yea, right. Good to know that fear is "mmmmm, good stuff."
I’m not talking about energies. Someone else is, and clearly you don’t know what energies they are talking about either.
Not sure what your trying to get at, you may have to be specific. And many demons do belive in science. They just don't believe humans should exist, or if they exist they should be classified as commodities, or proceeded goods.
Again I dont know what your talking about? What statistics, there has yet to be any real serious actual search for Bigfoot...
They should question what they see, for sure. But for the most part its pretty hard to miss what would be a 7 to 9 feet tall stinky hairy creature. I am not talking about them as all sightings are mostly offshoots and the great majority of people are not likely to be in those situation to begin with.
What ever you have wrote, take one thing into account, at best it is an educated quess based on some phisical evidence, the rest may just be playing telephone across ages and thousands of years, the rest is just completely bull# made up for various reasons.
Huh? I said I have never seen a bigfoot...
As for proof of aliens messing with genome? Are you slow, that's like proving...
You however do not, your like a lame duck, I am not here to prove anything to you, nor would I want to, or care to.
Besides quite trying to change the subject.
This thread is about big hairy men in the woods and how to kill them if one were to run into one...
There are some few supposed encounters of bigfoot and UFOs at the same locaations and some supposed spots which are UFOs were see were also Bigfoot encounter hot spots. But that is another topic.
Dude, even Roosevelt hiself said in the book that he thought they were jumping at shadows...
Though who knows what and how there methods have changed in the hundread or so years since that story or incicident took place.
Look around were?
So just how far did you poke your head in the tree to have come to such a conclusion?
Seems like tree shaking to me, ya it seems like fear to me. But hey why are you asking me about something somebody else said? Maybe you want to ask him or she about what he meant by " energy being emanated" from "them"
I’m not talking about energies. Someone else is, and clearly you don’t know what energies they are talking about either.
No # Sherlock. Off course I don't know what he was talking about I was merely interpreting what he could be talking about. Or as they say, ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.
You ask as stupid question about what something somebody else said. To somebody who did not say it at all. Well you got an answer did you not? The only energies I could think of that a human would be able to pick up from something that may be "out there" In that bush or hiding behind that tree, is the kind that would make there hair stand on end.
If you want to know what he was talking about, maybe you should ask him.