Let's Have a frank talk about America.

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: shawmanfromny

So anything I said, even though it's based in truth is irrelevant to you because I hurt your feelings? Okay, that's a great way to go about things. Oh, wait, no it isn't. Don't tell me you're an SJW. Please.

The American public is, to a large degree, stupid. The British public are stupid also. Most every countries populace is stupid - here's the rub, it was DESIGNED that way. The public are there to be used, that's it. The publics function is to build the infrastructure that the elite can profit on and live in comfortably. They don't give a toss about your education or your comfort. The public being stupid isn't something new and the fact you're not past that yet concerns me.

You're just trying to be outraged aren't you. Faux outrage is so last year.

Here's little experiment you can use. Go find a video with tons of facts, researched material and sound reason and see how many views it has. Now go and find a 'fail' video and tell me how many views that has and you'll see our problem.

You are spot on in this respect. Its easy to subjugate an uneducated populace, but much harder when a population is well educated and thinks critically. That is really the biggest threat to freedom in the world, its IGNORANCE. There was a reason that slaves were not allowed to read books in the old south.

Great OP!


There’s a black hole in the US government lying low like a snake in the grass ready to attack.

That black hole is really somewhat unseen but loudly heard by the obsessional grabbing of American power for Syria as if it has some claim on it.

Their gearing up with all the political and human carnage they’ve done in Syria and waiting for Hillary Clinton and a GOP congress.

Then the world will be in peril.

Trump is a side show before the storm

America is the empire of Slow Nazism. Nazis with velvet gloves and they will be the catalyst that destroys this world…UNLESS?


b_ ___ Time

WILLTELL

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: JinMI

This is exactly the point I'm trying to get across in this thread.

America started to attack itself from within, now, like a contagion, it's sickness is being foisted on the rest of the world. It's heartbreaking to watch it all unfold. If WW3 does start over this entanglement in Syria, what will the survivors remember of it? Will it be the American side of protection and sound reason (which is a total lie). Or will it be the truth - that the American political elite went BLOODY INSANE and just decided to change a regime they didn't like, openly, for the entire world to see.

Hopefully it's the latter rather than the former, but I am not sure I have that much faith in the COLLECTIVE intelligence of humanity.

a reply to: JinMI


Most people that read unbiased news reports would come to the same conclusion.Russia never was the enemy, nor the Russian people. After the second world war,the newly created C.I.A vrtually took over the Nazi intelligence agency lock stock and barell, all War criminals were given a whitewash. America knew nothing of Russia, so all they learnt was from the Nazis, how stupid can it get?. Billions in stolen Nazi bullion in the form of gold bars was spirited away, the right wing Capitalist west, would never go for anything that smacked of socialism.Its still idologically run that way today,in fact its entrenched in the establishment.Their only problem is that is not working, and to have a war with Russia, it would be a bit like the old line "They had a War, but nobody came". The opporunity for a fight came in Kosovo when the Russians took the airport, but British troops declined to engage.I think if America caused an incident to spark something off, the Nato allies suddenly would have other things to do.

a reply to: anonentity

Their only problem is that is not working, and to have a war with Russia, it would be a bit like the old line "They had a War, but nobody came". The opporunity for a fight came in Kosovo when the Russians took the airport, but British troops declined to engage.I think if America caused an incident to spark something off, the Nato allies suddenly would have other things to do.

Very interesting perspective. I would wager that if that took place on a world stage for all to view, it would further solidify the OPs theory. Nothing like a nation going rogue to boil the blood of onlookers.

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: ketsuko

This is what I hope for. I hope the elites will push people so far that, eventually, they'll scream "ENOUGH" and reclaim their senses.

I fear a violent revolution as much as an apathetic public. At least if people are apathetic it's somewhat hard to justify bashing in innocent, yet inconvenient, people. If the people become violent and they don't have the facts (which they don't) then a lot of innocent people will be scapegoated and 'sacrificed' before anything of substance happens.

I don't know what network the awake people are going to use for cohesion though. The mainstream media will not broadcast their emancipation. The internet would be shut off and satellites won't broadcast the signals. It would have to be a very well organised, underground like movement, involving politicians on the inside.

The global agenda is what we have to fear.

They need to break this country in order to bring in and us in line. What you see is the efforts of globalists to bring this nation down. Make us the villain and then let the rest of the world do the dirty work. Alternately, if we fall from within, it serves a similar purpose.

One way or another, they will continue to squeeze if they can.

But people all over are getting fed up with the game.

a reply to: ketsuko


Yea and wow so much of the world is "partying" right now, no pressure for now, bad guy america all gone and the party will be over for them.

Oh and several key European and some other nations.

a reply to: Joneselius

Peace and love ! The whole world is one big corporation , not cooperation , a business with the illusionati , the criminal rothschilds and their criminal accomplices the main shareholders of the biggest confidence scheme in the history of the material , physical realm ! Enlightenment is the only way out ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie

Peace By Peace

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Majic

Human history offers no examples of spontaneous peace, and such peace as there has been has always come at the price of war, because only those who possess the power to win wars have the power to impose peace.

That's one way too look at it. War is Peace, except that it isn't.

Indeed, war isn't peace, which is why I never said they were the same thing.

You might want to reexamine my post and see if you can find anything that would justify such an interpretation. I can appreciate the irony of "War is Peace" being a 1984 quote, but still, not my words, nor my point of view.

As for the Peace of Westphalia, it offers an example of the principle I'm describing.

Peace treaties only endure as long as they can be enforced, and the enforcement of peace treaties requires the ability to wage war. The Peace of Westphalia did not end war in Europe, and war continued between France and Spain even as and after the treaties were signed. The fighting continued because those with the ability to fight chose to do so, and no one else who might have had the means to stop them was willing to do so, treaties or no treaties.

As you pointed out, the Peace of Westphalia did establish principles which remain influential today, but it was not spontaneous, came at the price of war, and did not end war. Indeed, some of the worst wars in human history were later waged among the signatories of those and many subsequent peace treaties.

The principles of the Peace of Westphalia endure only because those with the power to apply them consider it to be to their benefit to perpetuate them. The moment that changes, those principles will be abandoned.

Treaties do not prevent war, only the wills of their signatories to honor them. As history demonstrates time and time again, the will to honor them inevitably fades, and war inevitably results.

Ad Hominidae

This thread examines the United States, and I don't wish to appear to be attempting to deflect attention from that, but the truth is if the U.S. wasn't the dominant military power in the world, this thread would probably be about whatever nation or organization was the dominant power -- assuming that power tolerated discussions of this kind, which is by no means assured. And if the discussion was nonetheless about America, it would no doubt have a much different premise and emphasis.

America happens to occupy the bloody throne of world hegemony for now, but it's not the first, and it definitely won't be the last. Whether what follows will be better or worse will be a matter of opinion, but it is highly unlikely everyone will be happy about it.

I value companionship and cooperation just as you do, but I am not optimistic that the ideal of genuine and lasting world peace can be attained by humans. At least, not as long as we remain humans. We are the greatest of the Great Apes, but we are still apes, and the forces that drive us to violence are as primal and fundamental as life itself.

We can aspire to and achieve great things, but as long as we deny who we really are, we will never be who we can really be.

Yah, how is it we're the Nazis this time around?

a reply to: Joneselius

I agree with all points you bring forwards, as a Canadian I must say that with WW3 on the horizon and possibly bringing nuclear war with it, that i do not fear Russia starting it or anything, I am afraid of America, for the Americans will drag us all to nuclear hell with them and why for money, for fun, or because they are lunatics hell bent on making everyone bow. Like with Syria the Americans have no right to be there they weren't asked for assistance like the Russians were they just showed up because they can. So I ask, please America don't kill all the rest of us because you are mad with power, and if you do start WW3 and become the new nazis you will feel the power of Canada's Storm Troopers. We shall not bow to you.

While perhaps not to the same level of immediacy or singularity (I think there are many great threats to world peace, with the U.S. being only one, with none of them being "the good guys" personally, and I also still think there is ample time to course correct,) I did have a very disturbing realization last night while pondering the subject matter of a different thread, and while discussing it with a close friend elsewhere online.

Trust in our representative government, irrespective of party, is at an all time low among the people. Rightfully so, in my opinion... but I don't think the full implications of that over time have been well considered or understood by either those in power, or the people themselves. The people know they feel deceived, disenfranchised, that they cannot trust their elected officials, and that corruption is near universal. But we/they have not taken the time to truly take that to its furthest eventuality and consider where this is going to lead us if nothing changes.

This has left us with a situation where those who do have confidence in either major party and a willingness to vote for either of them, are increasingly those with the most polarizing points of view. That will likely anger some on both sides and that is not my intent, but think about it: voter turn out ( pewrsr.ch... ) and candidate popularity ( 53eig.ht... ) nationally are declining, while - and I say this with all due to respect to voters for either party and their opinions, and recognizing that this does not include everyone - the level of heated rhetoric and divisiveness, and unwillingness to compromise, among the remaining faithful in both parties is rising. This is why both parties feel increasingly emboldened in advocating increasingly extreme measures.

At the same time, international trust in the U.S., even among close allies, as a morally and domestically palatable - from a political stand point in their own countries - partner, one they can rely on to make rational decisions that won't harm their own political positions or ability to sway their peoples, is also sharply declining. Especially since the second Iraq war, and that has not abated regardless of which party holds office. It has gone far beyond "squandering the political capital we garnered after 9/11," and has damaged our ability to forge effective and long term foreign policy as a whole.

That inability to craft long term foreign policy has also been complicated by an increasingly challenging strategic environment in the middle east, with runaway revolutions, ISIS, civil wars, our forced pull out of Yemen, etc. Events are unfolding too fast for us to predict or control (regardless of whether you believe we fomented those crises by design) and there is a growing sense that neither Washington nor the Pentagon have a firm grasp of what's happening right now, or where we're going long term in the region. The failure of the PNAC plan mentioned in this very topic to "contain" Russia and prevent her from becoming "resurgent," has further muddled our ability to affect foreign policy. It seems we had no plan B.

Then we have the economic uncertainty. There has been a recovery, yes, but things still seem tenuous or precarious somehow. As though another major economic crisis could do serious damage. And on a more philosophical and ideological level, wealth continues to be concentrated ever more in the hands of a few, and this growing disparity even after the 2008 crisis has not gone unnoticed by the people, with protests and agitation for major reforms by whoever gets elected. This was a large part of why the Bernie Sanders movement really took off in my opinion. But while Clinton promised to adopt some elements of his platform, many of those people now truly believe - perhaps rightly so - that they have been left with no political recourse. And she is also seen as horribly corrupt.

Finally, the social issues. The old, unresolved racial issues that have plagued our country are again coming to a head. Trust in law enforcement is shattered, just like trust in our government. Both peaceful and at times not so peaceful movements to agitate for change on this and all of the above fronts continue to proliferate, with no real solution or end in sight.

It seems as though in every way imaginable, the American people want real, substantive change... and not only is said change not forthcoming, but trust in the government's ability and willingness to deliver it has been systematically eroded, possibly to the point of being irreparably shattered.

So let's look at the big picture, here: a powerful industrial, economic, political, and military nation that is a constitutional democratic republic has several reservoirs of power at its disposal. 1) The support and will of the people. That's been shattered. 2) It's economic clout. That still exists, but is on arguably shaky ground, and the people no longer feel they have a true stake in or the ability to share in the country's prosperity. And while the petrodollar and the U.S. dollar in general remain the currency benchmark of the entire international financial system... confidence internationally in America is declining. That's a recipe for instability. 3) Political influence on the world stage, via comprehensive foreign policy. This seems to be eroding rapidly. Our diplomatic and foreign policy agility seems to have suffered. We can't pivot fast enough to comprehensively deal with the challenges we face, especially in terms of where our interests butt up against Russia's at the moment. And 4) Its military might.

And that is the scary part: our military might is the one thing we have left that seems insurmountably robust. Sure people can say the military has been eroded as well, but the fact remains, we have the most advanced and capable military force in the history of the world. Especially when coupled with our allies, and when effectively wielded.

So the terrifying thought/realization that occurred to me was this: What happens when a country becomes increasingly divided and polarized, those still willing to vote become more extreme and willing to accept extreme acts and positions by their leaders in a desperate bid for "something different," economic stability is questionable, foreign policy can no longer on its own affect the direction of world events, the world loses faith and confidence in said foreign policy and becomes increasingly willing to act outside said policy, the people are restive and divided, but military might is the last sure thing we have?

I hate to say it, but history has shown us what happens when that is the case. And it's not pretty.

Now, I'm an optimist generally. I don't think the above nightmare scenario is something that will happen overnight, or even within a few years. But I do think we need to very carefully and seriously start trying to correct our course, focus on restoring civility, make the government more directly responsive to the wishes of its people, and restore international confidence in us on a moral or at least reliability level... which will require some real soul searching and humility on the part of both ourselves and our leaders.

Because where the present course leads, in my opinion, in ten, twenty years... is not something I want to live to see personally.

Peace.

"America post 9/11 is a vastly different country than it was beforehand. Before 9/11 the American people were still stupid to a large degree, still lazy and slavish, but they had one thing going for them - their spirit of freedom and acceptance, tolerance and liberty."

You lost me with the insults.

You claim to want to "talk" about America, yet that's not how you start a conversation. Insulting the entire population, with broad generalizations.

If I were allowed to post it here, there would be a giant single finger salute aimed directly at you.

America is not perfect (shocker!)

Neither is Britain. Neither is ANY country.

Get off your high horse.

a reply to: poncho1982

Well... no wonder why it is that some people seem allergic to the truth! When they dislike it, they simply refuse to absorb more data from the same source! What a perfectly thin skinned attitude.

It will avail you of nothing long term, and if you had the patience and wit to have read the rest of the material and engaged with the content of this thread with your eyes open, rather than squeezed shut, like a weak gutted person at an autopsy, then you might have learned something. Remember, it is no mark of patriotism to be blind to the faults and failings of your government or your people. To be ignorant of those flaws is the least patriotic thing a person can do, since to truly love a place, one must understand it well enough to heal it, rather than allow it to collapse under the weight of its own ridiculousness.

a reply to: AceWombat04

Your post was very well thought out and seems to hit most of the woes within this corporation we call America. We have definitely changed and the change was seen many years ago by JFK and perhaps before him when the FED was created.

We are at a point in history, in time, where we are at a point of no return. You suggest restoring our infrastructure in your post with no solid solution as to how to get there.

I too am an optimist. For me I do not want to spend a lot of time on the problem. I want to dissect the problem, reflect for a while and then heed a solution. What is your solution to this problem ? How do we obtain the goal you put forth below?

But I do think we need to very carefully and seriously start trying to correct our course, focus on restoring civility, make the government more directly responsive to the wishes of its people, and restore international confidence in us on a moral or at least reliability level... which will require some real soul searching and humility on the part of both ourselves and our leaders. Because where the present course leads, in my opinion, in ten, twenty years... is not something I want to live to see personally.

Can we agree on the list below?

Voting is useless
Our government is too big and corrupt
We are in the Middle East for resources
We are policing our corporation and outside entities for money/resources
Our prisons and schools are a business
Our healthcare is a mess
Our debt will keep coming as long as we keep printing ( the FED has to go bye, bye)

I could keep adding to the list but I want to se if we can agree on just that.

If we agree on the above list what do we do about it?

The only legal and peaceful action we can take to change the system is to take our self out of the system. Many ways to do this without even walking outside our door. A "strike" so to speak. How long would we as a collective have to stay home before it was felt in the Government?

I urge you wall to think about a peaceful and legal solution. We can't keep beating a dead horse.

a reply to: MamaJ

Voting is useless

Well don't do it! It's the best thing you can do to change things. If enough people don't vote, the establishment will HAVE to change the system.

Encourage all your family and friends not to vote.

Baby steps.

a reply to: openminded2011

Beware those who think! They might Mao Zedong your ass.

Bye bye

a reply to: CJCrawley

Not voting doesn't do a thing. Already looked into it. www.zerohedge.com...

We would have to rally at the voting place and it would not be peaceful.. it would turn ugly in my opinion.

I extend this message in the politest way possible: Well DUH..

Isn't all this general knowledge? I know it's hidden from Americans and all, but the rest of us have caught up pretty well by now.

Whenever I meet some 'enlightened' people we always go on about politics being a farse, war being a money making game, Rothchilds this, zeitgeist that etc etc.

Sorry for taking so long to respond.

The USA is one of the largest threats to world peace... but not the largest threat IMO. We still live in a world inhabited by some pretty dastardly characters, and not all are Americans.

That said, I have some insight into why we seem to be charging headlong into war. It actually goes back long before 911, back to the early 20th century. It was the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, and major inventions like the internal combustion engine were being introduced. One engine could do the work of dozens of people. The only real problem was that they needed this thing called fuel. Early engines could burn plant-based oils, but that meant more crops going for fuel and less for food.

The US wasn't much of a conqueror nation then, IMO because we had plenty to conquer right here. We were pretty self-sufficient. But the rest of the world wasn't so fortunate, primarily in England. They didn't have the oil reserves we had, but were developing technology as fast or faster than we were. They had to look elsewhere for fuel, and found it in the Middle East. Businesses in both England and India began buying up claims in the Middle East and drilling for oil. The Middle Eastern rulers were fine with it; their fortunes increased through royalties to make them wealthy beyond their dreams... well, all but the Saudis. The accepted science at the time indicated no oil reserves under Saudi Arabia, so they were left out in the cold.

Enter the USA. Our thirst for fuel had grown, and our businesses looked abroad for a source of oil. All of the Middle East was already bought up, so most of our companies set about trying to take over the companies that owned the oil rights. One, however, SoCal, couldn't seem to compete, so they approached the Saudis. King Saud was thrilled to finally have someone interested in buying his oil rights, so they made a deal and the largest reserves in the region were discovered under the Saudi desert. The science had been wrong.

For brevity, let's fast-forward. The US eventually took over almost all oil rights in the Middle East. After the British Pound failed, the US dollar became the International Reserve Currency, and after OPEC formed, our buddies the Sauds helped ensure that oil would be bought and sold only using the International Reserve Currency... the US dollar. We were then able to drop the gold and silver standard for a hidden oil standard.

The dollar was never fiat. It was just backed by oil, under International agreement.

Iran, however, was a threat to that agreement. The rulers were overthrown and a new semi-democratic government was instituted, one that felt Iranian oil was not being sold fairly to Iran. We interfered with their military and helped bring Reza Shah to power. He kept the Democratic section of government in check to protect our interests. When he died, his son Muhammed Reza Shah, took over. He was a cruel dictator who was finally overthrown in the 1970s. He escaped with our help, which caused the Iranian Hostage Crisis.

Since then, Iran has hated us, to the extent that even our intelligence couldn't infiltrate Iran. They took over their oil reserves, dropped the dollar peg, and began selling oil to Russia, for a better deal that they got from us. That threatened our status of having the International Reserve Currency, so we set about trying to topple Iran. We couldn't attack them directly due to them being tied to Russia, so we tried to carry on. But the idea of dropping the dollar peg was catching on. That was the Arab Springs... every overthrow happened shortly after that country mentioned dropping the dollar peg. Finally we decided we had to take care of the Iranian problem.

We planned to use Israel as our surrogate. They were small enough that a war between them and Iran would likely not involve Russia directly, especially since we were Israel's allies. That led to the recent scare about Iran developing nuclear weapons... there was no evidence of such outside traces which were caused by the Stuxnet virus... which had coding reminiscent of Israeli/US coding methods.

But then Syria began to support Iran. We needed to take out Assad. But then Russia began to bluster over Syria. We had to disrupt Russia by encouraging already-heated tensions in the Ukraine. Now it's turned into a chess game, with Israel backing away from a hard line against Iran, Turkey becoming involved, and Russia playing mind games with us over ISIS.

Incidentally, remember Russia's disaster in Afghanistan? The freedom fighters then are the exact same people we call ISIS today. They used to be our allies.

That's a vastly simplified explanation of the world stage in the Middle East, but it gives the basics for why our government is doing what it's doing.

TheRedneck