Verizon/Apple Listening to, transcribing and saving voice mails in violation of my client's rights

Since my update to iOS 10 on my iphone, this has been happening: when I go to "voice mail" there is a transcription of the voice mail that has been left. Setting aside for a moment how inaccurate it has been, as a lawyer any communication between me and my client is privileged from disclosure to anyone else.

What Verizon/Apple is doing violates that right to have unintercepted communication. They are first of all "listening" to the voice message without my permission (although I'm sure I clicked on some "I Agree" term at some point).

Second, they are creating a *written* transcript of that communication. Now, that written transcript exists on my phone; on Verizon/Apple's server somewhere, and who knows where else? I can only assume it's being used for data mining.

So what happens when the Government or an opposing party in a lawsuit sends a subpoena to Verizon/Apple for that transcript? Or to me for my phone records? Am I destroying evidence when I hit "delete"? Is it being deleted when I delete the voice mail message? There are many, many circumstances where the subpoena can be served and responded to without my or my client's prior knowledge or opportunity to oppose it.

Last point, the transcripts I've reviewed are inaccurate. What happens when a voice-mail message of "I didn't shoot that guy" is transcribed as "I did shoot that guy"? An intrusion into my client's rights becomes a de-facto confession that now must be overcome by us.

Even my girlfriend got p'd when I showed this to her.

a reply to: LanceCorvette

Perhaps they aren't violating the law because they were instructed to do this by the Feds and it is for "National Security" reasons

What did you expect?`Buying a spying device for lots of money and using it 24/7 to spread your data around the world?
What do you think they made the 1984 televisor that small and that popular for?

If you don´t wanna be under total surveillance 24/7, just don´t use spyPhones!

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: LanceCorvette

Perhaps they aren't violating the law because they were instructed to do this by the Feds and it is for "National Security" reasons

Well, it was the recent yahoo-scanning-emails thread/news that prompted me to start the new topic.

Even a few short years ago your post would have a /sarc tag, but these days, it's not unreasonable to think that's happening.

a reply to: LanceCorvette

As a lawyer I suggest you do some hard core reading on IT Security. Especially where it relates to cases in the FISA courts and what the NSA has been up to in the past 20 years.

You will find that the NSA and or other government agencies have been in cellphone operators data centers for years monitoring everything. With or without a warrant.

Unless you are face to face any client interaction done on unencrypted technology can be captured by the government.

This link is about secret rooms at AT&T
www.zerohedge.com...

And here is the NSA giving data to the DEA and the DEA covering it up.
www.washingtonpost.com...

a reply to: grey580

Thanks for the links, I just discovered zerohedge the other day and I appreciate the intelligent comments in both their substance and their humor.

I'll read up. I don't do criminal law so the topic of taps and overhears wasn't in front of me like this transcript was - hit me in the face, it did.

Since I'm not an apple/iPhone user anymore, I may not help much ,but, you could put your phone back to default settings and erase everything to square one?

Off course back up things first.

Or become an Android user.

a reply to: LanceCorvette

thank your government, the beacon of the free world. these practices arent common practice in other countries.
are you willing to risk your security over freedom, unequivocally?

this is the climate we have cultivated and shaped, war after war after war.

/notsarc

a reply to: LanceCorvette

May I suggest you look into secure email.

protonmail.com...

Protonmail is a secure email company, one of many (You should Google some more of these). They are based in Switzerland. So the government getting a hold of emails will be tougher.

And you're welcome.

Perhaps you could be proactive and not be so stupid as to leave "privileged communications" on voice mail, which is by its very nature a recording device. Instruct your clients to do likewise. As a lawyer you can turn this into a class-action lawsuit and make millions while giving members of the class a ten cent credit on their next Verizon bill.

a reply to: schuyler

If I had ten cents for every time...

And jeez. You could of been a little nicer.

Their isn't a modern VoiceMail system anywhere at the carrier or PBX level that doesn't include Transcription service so that to me isn't a problem.

The issue is that Apple turned it on and seemingly doesn't provide a way to turn it off. Still looking into this.

*(although I'm sure I clicked on some "I Agree" term at some point)*

This sums it up. Agree and deal with it, or don't and deal with not having the 'must have' trendy phone. Next.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: schuyler

If I had ten cents for every time...

And jeez. You could of been a little nicer.

"have been." The guy's a lawyer. They're usually not very nice themselves. Have you ever been on the receiving end of a lawyer's 'good graces'? It's not exactly sweetness and light. Bottom Line is the guy is complaining about a recording device, you know, recording. It's like using the navigation system in your car to get you someplace, then complaining that the device violates your privacy because it stored the address of the destination.

The simple solution to this problem is to withdraw your paying patronage and use of their facilities. The more that do this, the greater effect upon their revenue. Then again, perhaps withdrawing from using their services would be to inconvenient, in which case, you condone the surveillance? Make your mind up.

I've been lurking this site for over 5 years now. And after seeing this post, decided today was the day.

I believe all the points I want to make can be read about here: theintercept.com...


Because it's much more efficient to log every word as text ( ~1KB/letter) Than to employ millions of individuals to organically listen... Extremely efficient. And automated.

This applies to our desktop and notebook computers as well. Unless you have taken proper steps to avoid being spied on through your device's hardware.



To anyone who has a smartphone, and think their phone is not listening, download any app that allows you see hardware configuration and check the microphone activity.



ANDROID - play.google.com... (FREE)

iPhone - ?? But sure one's available
Windows phone - ?? But sure one's available

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: schuyler

If I had ten cents for every time...

And jeez. You could of been a little nicer.

"have been." The guy's a lawyer. They're usually not very nice themselves. Have you ever been on the receiving end of a lawyer's 'good graces'? It's not exactly sweetness and light. Bottom Line is the guy is complaining about a recording device, you know, recording. It's like using the navigation system in your car to get you someplace, then complaining that the device violates your privacy because it stored the address of the destination.

I'm actually complaining that Apple/Verizon invaded what has traditionally been a locked voice mail system, without permission, created a transcription of confidential communications which is probably some kind of crime, and is likely storing that transcription along with the identity of the caller and the recipient, which can then be easily accessed by LE or anyone who can muster a subpoena.

And do me a favor, the next time your kid is handcuffed to a radiator at the police station at 79th and Halsted at 2 in the morning for buying drugs, don't call me. Try calling your Congressman, your priest, your alderman. Then call a lawyer and see which one picks up the phone.

You may want to call verizon and have the feature removed. I'm not sure off the specific name for this feature on their network but it may be called something like voicemail to text or visual voicemail. I'd think that even if it's transcribed, it would still fall under client attorney privelege for admissibility purposes even if someone got a hold of it.

I'm almost certain it's a carrier feature and not a apple feature you're talking about.

There are state wiretap laws that protect privacy and do apply.

Look up info on Verizon during Snowden's revealings. It will tell you what you're up against/what they are.