Did it never rain on earth before Noah's flood?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla


Why do you say the "days" were really "epochs"? The Bible says "days", not "epochs". Isn't it the literal word of God?

In my "day" the 80's were cool!

A day could represent a life span of an individual or an era. A twenty-four hour day doesn't seem resonable for the creative days so there must be another explanation.

Originally posted by lostinspaceIn my "day" the 80's were cool!

A day could represent a life span of an individual or an era. A twenty-four hour day doesn't seem resonable for the creative days so there must be another explanation.

Non-responsive. If the Bible is the Word of God, why is "reinterpretation" allowed?

You're right, however, that the creation story isn't reasonable.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
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Non-responsive. If the Bible is the Word of God, why is "reinterpretation" allowed?

You're right, however, that the creation story isn't reasonable.

Who said it was literal 24 hour periods? The Jews? The Catholic church?

The authority is the written Word. Man's interpretation is the one that is flawed. I could be wrong but the passages still stand on their own merit.

Originally posted by lostinspaceWho said it was literal 24 hour periods? The Jews? The Catholic church?

The authority is the written Word. Man's interpretation is the one that is flawed. I could be wrong but the passages still stand on their own merit.

The Bible is the word of God, isn't? Divinely inspired? So when the written Word says "days", it's means "days", yes?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
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The Bible is the word of God, isn't? Divinely inspired? So when the written Word says "days", it's means "days", yes?

OK. An alien is trying to download a story into your mind and he wants to show different scenes of that event, how is he going to separate those scenes?

He's going to shut off the projector, close the curtains or something else to show the next ACT is coming. That person who got the download was Moses. He saw that vision from an earth surface perspective.

Originally posted by lostinspaceOK. An alien is trying to download a story into your mind and he wants to show different scenes of that event, how is he going to separate those scenes?

He's going to shut off the projector, close the curtains or something else to show the next ACT is coming. That person who got the download was Moses. He saw that vision from an earth surface perspective.

So, it's not the Word of God, but Moses' take on what he thought God said? I'm not clear on that.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla


So, it's not the Word of God, but Moses' take on what he thought God said? I'm not clear on that.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John showed their view point of Jesus' life on earth. Why four people instead of one?

Humans see things differently depending on their education, social background and interests. The different personalities appealed to like minded people. Inspiration is complemented with the existing comprehension of an individual's mind.

reply to post by lostinspace


Okay, so not the literal word of God. Men's interpretations. Why did you say it was the Written Word earlier?

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Because it's written down on a piece of paper mind you.
Waves of thought propagating through space into the mind and then onto the paper!

Originally posted by Nygdan
A heavy mist that deposits as much water as a rainfall? Sounds like, rainfall.

It would not be rainfall though. Take a greenhouse for example. The "Enclosed" structure exhibits the same effect to some degree. You place seedlings in Soil, and have a water source, such as the waters from the Deep, (in the ground or under the ground) and you will have a similar situation. The Warming, then Cooling, and re-warming of the Greenhouse will produce Dew, which would sustain the living plants within the enviroment.

The usual water canopy considered would result in the pressure at the surface of the earth being so great that every living thing is crushed. It would also blot out the sun entirely. And if it crashed down, some have speculated that the energy released in that crashing would be enough to boil the water, let alone smash some puny little ark.

Maybe what you are not considering is the Firmament. There was the Firmament which seperated the waters from the waters. This may have been Firm-enough (haha) to eliminate what you have posed, and others from Science would tend to suggest.

Also, exactly how much water did/would the Firmament hold/seperate? I suggest it was enough to cause a Global Flood, which most ancient cultures confirm, to some extent, but nothing akin to what "Some" Christians would believe. the Premise that Chinese, Blacks, Aborigines, Pygmies, Japanese, and on and on...... all came from Noah and his three sons is assinine.

We have to remember the Story being told. It is specific to Adam's Family. In the days of Noah, everything Noah knew and everyone Noah had met was removed from the scene. Maybe Noah lived in the Med Basin. Now, it's under the Med Sea. It's not like there needed to be enough water to completely submerge the entire planet at once.

And with this being said, why would water today, be any different from water say, 9000 years ago, to pick a date? Is water not clear? How would a Clean and Clear item, suddenly BLOT OF THE SUN? That is just plain loony

I would suggest, this is how the Ancients studied the Stars with the Fallen. They had the utlimate magnifying glass!!!

Also, within the U.S. of A there was a Science Group which had within a closed enviroment a study of the effects of a higher atmospheric pressure on Living things, and they found things got bigger. A fern would double or triple in Size. Likewise for insects. Would this not be something to consider, since Science can show, at somepoint in our history life on this planet was a lot larger than it is today.

Why would protection from UV radiation result in people living hundreds of years? Are pale people longer lived than everyone else?

Today? Of course not. We are all polluted by the effects of UV Radiation.

No. Its preposterous on the face of it and all the evidence there is about the past indicates that nothing like it happened.

There is NOTHING in evidence to show the Mighty Grand Canyon took 100000 years to form, or 120 Days. There is NOTHING in evidence to suggest the atmosphere today, has always been as it is today.

Nice "chatting" with you again Nygdan!

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by lostinspace
The biblical account said an ocean covered the entire planet at one time.

The biblical account of creation, maybe, but certainly not the flood.

How would you account for mountains like Everest (which has certainly been around since modern humans 200 000 years ago) being covered by water? The mass of eight and a half kilometers of water would be enough to shift the earth off its orbit.

f you consider the density of water, compared to water vapour, the size of the atmosphere required to hold that volume of water would extend many times the distance of the moon.

So where did the water come from.

Secondly, where did all the water go after the flood?

P.S. If you take the creationist 6000 year model, Everest was there too.

[edit on 9/5/2009 by Saurus]

reply to post by Shane


"Maybe what you are not considering is the Firmament. There was the Firmament which seperated the waters from the waters. This may have been Firm-enough (haha) to eliminate what you have posed, and others from Science would tend to suggest."

Proving the Bible with the Bible? Really? This "Firmament"? What was it exactly?

"The vault or expanse of the heavens; the sky. " Is that the firmament you're talking about? The "waters" were separated by thin air? Really?

As for the Grand Canyon, ever been there? 300 miles long, IIRC, worn into SOLID ROCK. It didn't happen in any one flood.

Originally posted by lostinspace
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

Because it's written down on a piece of paper mind you.
Waves of thought propagating through space into the mind and then onto the paper!

Totally unprovable, of course. So, until we get something better I'm going with "Bronze Age goat-herder stories".

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
This "Firmament"? What was it exactly?

"The vault or expanse of the heavens; the sky. " Is that the firmament you're talking about? The "waters" were separated by thin air? Really?

Well, the Atmosphere today is "LIKE" the firmament, but I believe it was a little closer to the surface and was a "Firmer" (Denser) than was we see today.

As for proving Biblical Facts with Biblical Facts, how would you enjoy, Biblical Facts with Ancient Texts.

I lifted this from a PAST POST, here in ATS that I was part of with several "Other's" playing here today. The "Main Theory" was off topic, but unlike the narrow minded, who think things are specific and need seperation inorder to assume clairity, this post covered many varied topics, in an attempt to structure some facts about something that Ms Nat had considered. Review of it wouldn't hurt. It may take a few days, but it wouldn't hurt. Lots of Details and links to review!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Shane
Review the Part II Chapter 1 thru 6
www.sacred-texts.com...

Plato identifies "the great deluge of all" with the destruction of Atlantis. The priest of Sais told Solon that before "the great deluge of all" Athens possessed a noble race, who performed many noble deeds, the last and greatest of which was resisting the attempts of Atlantis to subjugate them; and after this came the destruction of Atlantis, and the same great convulsion which overwhelmed that island destroyed a number of the Greeks. So that the Egyptians, who possessed the memory of many partial deluges, regarded this as "the great deluge of all."

Ref directly above.

Wow! Atlantis ties in with Biblical story of Noah?

Wow! Atlantis ties in with the Biblical Story of Noah. Is this at least what you are seeking as an alternative source? This was around Page four of the Post. Check out the Context from which this Originated.

As for the Grand Canyon, ever been there? 300 miles long, IIRC, worn into SOLID ROCK. It didn't happen in any one flood.

Why yes! What a wonder! It's absolutely beautiful!!

I will look into this. I have seen a few sites prevously which give credible evidence and provide detail in respects to this. I need to review some papers to "Relocate" these links. Trust you will await this response.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


"Well, the Atmosphere today is "LIKE" the firmament, but I believe it was a little closer to the surface and was a "Firmer" (Denser) than was we see today."

How would that work, exactly?

As for your references, lots of ancient civilizations have "big flood myths". Accepting them as true, to support the bible flood story, would mean that you have to accept the other myths as at least plausible. That would lead to other gods being just a plausible as the biblical story. And that leads to all myths being "true", doesn't it?

Or are we cherry-picking?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by Shane

 

As for your references, lots of ancient civilizations have "big flood myths". Accepting them as true, to support the bible flood story, would mean that you have to accept the other myths as at least plausible. That would lead to other gods being just a plausible as the biblical story. And that leads to all myths being "true", doesn't it?

Good point, but I think from a purely logical argument based on the assumption that many civilizations have flood myths, the following might be true:

1) The flood happened, and at least one (and only one) of the myths are true.

2) The flood happened, but none of the mythical reasons for the flood are true.

3) All the flood stories are simply myths, and the flood never happened.

4) The flood happened and all the myths are true, but are simply different interpretations of the same supreme being causing the flood.

Certainly, the flood cannot be used as evidence for the bible being true, because then, as you say, all the others are equally plausible.

[edit on 9/5/2009 by Saurus]

reply to post by Saurus


My personal take after many years of reading various myths is that some of them happened. Santorini definitely collapsed, and the tidal wave ruined the Minoan culture. The tidal wave probably hit many places on the Mediterranean coast, and probably spawned many of the stories. The idea of a "global" flood, however, just doesn't, ahem, hold water.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


I have never thought about a tidal wave being the origin of the flood myth, but considering the devastation caused by the recent Tsunami, it is highly possible that one might result in escalated stories many years later, especially from a civilization which only passed down history by word of mouth.

Excellent food for thought!
*Starred!*

Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

I have never thought about a tidal wave being the origin of the flood myth, but considering the devastation caused by the recent Tsunami, it is highly possible that one might result in escalated stories many years later, especially from a civilization which only passed down history by word of mouth.

Excellent food for thought!
*Starred!*

Sudden deluge? Big hint there. They'd have changed it to "rain" from "wave" because "common sense" says waves just don't get that high.

reply to post by Cherish


That may depend on who you ask. Ask anyone who is devoted religiously to old testament scripture and unless it actually written, I'd say no.
Looks to other cultures for your answer.
I don't think the bible mentions the cities in 100 meters of water scattered around the globe either.
There are many cultures that speak of a great flood, not just Hebrew.
Because of this I'm not really comfortable with it even being known as Noahs Flood; but I guess thats the most recognized label for it!