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Donald Trump: Military suicides happen to servicemembers who 'can't handle it'

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posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: CigaretteByrnes

originally posted by: projectvxn
The assumption that war is the reason for suicide needs to stop.

His comments are not atypical. This is a regular assumption for people who don't understand the military and have never served.

It's just like the "soldiers are all brainwashed robots" crap. It's a Hollywood version of what we are. To read, most people have NO IDEA what they are talking about.

Trump included.


Hey.
You seem to be in the know.

If not war...what aspect of military service contributes to such a high suicide rate?



Hey, I'll take a crack at this one..... It's Admin right? I could see why if I had to be one of those guys..... all kidding aside, you ask a great question. I've been out since 06, and would have no clue as to what that non combat MOS would be for such a high suicide rate.




posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 03:45 PM
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Is Trump wrong? Obviously many military members can "handle it". Those who cannot can end up with PTSD and possible physical harm. I don't see the scandal here. I don't think anything is wrong with those who are affected with these things. Everyone is built different. I want them to get the help they need. Obviously under Obama the VA and retired military have not received even close to adequate care. Will Trump change that? I don't know, I hope so. I have more confidence Trump would make things happen than more of the same in Hillary.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 03:47 PM
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looks to me the spin on this is that trump says "the vets that kill themselves are not strong and they cant handle it" thats a pretty #ty thing to say. but he didn't say that really. it sounds to me that trump wants va to do a better job.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 03:47 PM
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Even the one's that never met Hillary?



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
The assumption that war is the reason for suicide needs to stop.

His comments are not atypical. This is a regular assumption for people who don't understand the military and have never served.

It's just like the "soldiers are all brainwashed robots" crap. It's a Hollywood version of what we are. To read, most people have NO IDEA what they are talking about.

Trump included.


I have always wished that my Grandfather had lived longer, so that I could have asked him what he saw. He was in the BEF from 1939-40, leaving France at a little place called Dunkirk on June 1, 1940. He went back on D+3 to Normandy in June 1944. And he saw the immediate aftermath of the liberation of Bergen-Belsen. And he never really talked about what he saw. I suspect that he knew that his family could never be able to comprehend it.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg


My dad was in korea and saw plenty of action.
He was very reluctant to talk about his experiences.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 03:58 PM
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I never served in the military but I have PTSD pretty bad, I feel Trumps comments were more like if I was as strong as him, I wouldn't have any issues.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:01 PM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: AngryCymraeg


My dad was in korea and saw plenty of action.
He was very reluctant to talk about his experiences.


I think that it was that generation. Very unwilling to talk about what they saw and how they felt. My family had a few comments that my Grandfather let slip every now and then. About Dunkirk he said that he'd never seen the sea so flat and the men so confident that the Navy would get them out. About Normandy he once said that the smell of death hung everywhere and that it oddly enough it was the dead horses that upset him so much.
He never talked about Bergen-Belsen. Not really. But my Mother say that she thinks that it knocked a decade off his life. He bottled it all up.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:05 PM
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X-Army here. (Once you're in you're never really an X... but that's how it's described, sooo... anyways)

In boot camp, there are soldiers contemplate suicide.
- Sometimes it's because of what they left behind and once you're in, you're IN and you're not getting out unless you do something really stupid that could get you locked up or disgraced. At least you're made to think that you WILL be a disgrace.

They can't handle it.

- Sometimes it's knowing that your loved one is back home cheating on you. This is a real thing. I've seen it happen often. The soldier then contemplates suicide because he just can't simply go home at will. Once you're in, you're IN.

They can't handle it.

Outside of war - Active Duity:
- Same as above. They can't handle it.

Time of war
- Same as above.
- Being put in a world where you could possibly die at any time? Suicide could be as easy as catching a bullet. Soldiers are in fear. Fear does not equal suicide. The same rules above simply apply. War is not the reason. It's silly to think that someone is going to kill themselves because they're in a place they may die and the only way out is to kill themselves.

However... ranger buddies, best friends and comrades die around you. What sticks in your head after that could be a catalyst for suicide because you don't want to live with the dreams and the stress that comes afterward. Some people come out of war broken. Everyone who sees combat is a little broken. Some simply can't handle the burdens that are the result of war, death, blood and guts. Imagine what you would live with every day if you watched your ranger buddy or your squad get blown to bits around you or you yourself get maimed to the point that you ultimately feel you are useless and perhaps feel that no woman would want you after what you became or how you turned out after.

It's a crazy ordeal.

Saying simply "They couldn't handle it" has a ton of truth to it. It's an ugly truth, but still truth in one fashion or another.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:10 PM
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"backtrack to find the truth"....backtrack to what?

If someone commits suicide for any reason, PTSD or not, it shows they could not handle it. Handle life. What is wrong with saying this? It is the truth. Only when we confront the truth can we find a solution.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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The man has no idea on how far or deep this goes nor does he really want that strong of a person to be able to do what we ask the military to do, such as go off to some distant land and kill people and handle it on their own.

The science of the human mind is just starting to get out of its infancy, and it acceptance is still slow to come but people are starting to see its usefulness in helping with many problems. And PTSD is something new in that area.

Before anyone can even look or talk about such, there are a few things to consider, when it comes to the military. For a long time, people in the military, if they sought out professional help, for mental issues, it could have affected them from getting promoted, even in retention. It has not been until recently that they are discovering how much being in such a job can affect the human mind, and many other jobs similar to such, or even life events can affect a person for a very long time.

And what does the military do, to get a person ready to go off and die for their country, is simply this: They take persons in, recruit them, remove them from a familiar environment, then put them through 8 weeks, of structured environment, where the person has to conform to the rules, and regulations, even dressing as they are so ordered to do. In this environment, they are pushed both physically and mentally to adhere to a set of standards, to the breaking point. Then they are shipped to another location, to learn a trade, then they are sent to another location to perform said trade. Any breaking of the conformity during that time frame is not allowed, often punished. And it is push, hurry up, wait and then repeat all over again. Then there is a war, and now these military persons are asked to do something, that most have been raised and told was wrong, to kill and take another persons life, to refuse is grounds for punishment, discharge and or possible jail term.

Now you take these people, send them to another country, with different laws, culture and social rules, expect them to do a job and it slowly adds up. Then if there is fighting, the military does not always tell those fighting the whole truth. Then push them to fight until there is an achievable victory and finally they can come home. But those that are coming home, are often damaged in some way, carrying scars that cannot be seen, and they have 2 choices, seek professional help, or as what has gone on recently, are crawling into a bottle of some chemical means and now have far worse problems than before. And many of them do not know how to find their way back to the realm of what is considered normal, often facing their own demons without any guidance. And it can often be where they get abusive towards those they most trust, their families, who are struggling to deal with a person who has become a stranger or distant.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:16 PM
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My Great Grandfather was killed in WW1. My Grandfather lost a ring finger D-Day later he was on the supply line to Russia. My father was a only son and was in Europe guarding nuclear missiles instead of Viet Nam. I was tortured by a operation paperclip benefactor x US Marine Corp drill instructor fascist step father form ages 10 to 15. At 15 I cracked him upside the head breaking his nose with a broomstick effectively ending years of abuse.

Republicans suck when it comes to mental health, be it civilian or military!! Democrats are not much better, but they do more than Trump would do. Trump is elite and doesn't take care of his own issues why would he help you?



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:18 PM
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Military suicides happen to servicemembers


Can I just say that whoever wrote this headline is a ***SNIP***?

Suicides don't happen to people, they are committed by people.

Semantics, just like the article.


edit on 10/3/2016 by Blaine91555 because: Vulgarities not allowed, even in the Mud Pit. Please see Mud Pit rules.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
"backtrack to find the truth"....backtrack to what?

If someone commits suicide for any reason, PTSD or not, it shows they could not handle it. Handle life. What is wrong with saying this? It is the truth. Only when we confront the truth can we find a solution.



Pisses me off when a coward says it. or the elite



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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Suicide is by definition people who could not handle it. If they could handle whatever it was they would not. If they do it for another person its a sacrifice, If someone causes them to die its homicide.

Is the correct statement is "people who commit suicide can handle it". why even ask, no thats wrong.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: CigaretteByrnes

When I got back from Afghanistan our unit had a soldier who committed suicide. He was a supply soldier at KAF the whole deployment.

His wife cheated on him and stole every penny in his bank account.

When I was in AIT a soldier, also in AIT, committed suicide.

I know the wars have contributed greatly. But the narrative is that any of us who went to war automatically have PTSD, we're all suicidal rambo types, and it is perpetuated by the Hollywood narrative.

Suicide is a problem in general. There is one suicide in the US every 15 minutes. Each suicide has different rationale behind its ideation.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: WilburnRoach
My Great Grandfather was killed in WW1. My Grandfather lost a ring finger D-Day later he was on the supply line to Russia. My father was a only son and was in Europe guarding nuclear missiles instead of Viet Nam. I was tortured by a operation paperclip benefactor x US Marine Corp drill instructor fascist step father form ages 10 to 15. At 15 I cracked him upside the head breaking his nose with a broomstick effectively ending years of abuse.

Republicans suck when it comes to mental health, be it civilian or military!! Democrats are not much better, but they do more than Trump would do. Trump is elite and doesn't take care of his own issues why would he help you?



I get it.. You don't want the obviousness of it. You don't want the real. You don't want the truth of the matter... You only care if it's Trump bashing.

Got it...



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:27 PM
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a reply to: StallionDuck Good reply,ex-Air Force ,and I knew a couple of guys who attempted suicide just from the stress of basic and of losing a girl friend .Some people just aren`t able to deal with stuff and that's just the way it is.A neighbor who was in WW2 had problems from it and when he had a family problem it was too much.So Trump could have put it better,but sadly people have limits to what they can take.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: StallionDuck

Trump started it by bashing our war heroes, and gold star families!!!



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: WilburnRoach
a reply to: StallionDuck

Trump started it by bashing our war heroes, and gold star families!!!



How exactly did he bash our war heros? I failed to see the connection.

If he said "They couldn't handle it", you don't have to be in the military to talk about military. The same could be said about this thread. Unless you're in the military, you shouldn't have a voice on one side or the other... right?

Unless you have something else I just don't know about, I don't see the issue.




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