Trump the Heretic

a reply to: Aazadan

Cheater - Divorced twice due to infidelity. (this does not affect leading)
Rapist - Defended himself in court with the line "Everyone knows you can't rape your wife". (You mean when her lawyers told her to say that, she recanted and has advised his current campaign?)
Con Man - Trump University, which he is standing trial for in November. An honorable mention goes to his mortgage business. (Anyone who 'pays' to get rich is an idiot. He gave them the steps and it did not work for all)
Bigot - Have you seen his plans for Muslims? (No plan for Muslims. He wants more vigorous background checks from war torn countries)
Tax Dodger - Not all the info is out yet, but something shady went down in 1995. (He lost a lot of money in 95. That is the only thing proven)
Chauvinist asshole - Literally every time he opens his mouth proves this one. (opions are like assholes...everyone has one)
Potential racist - Mexican plans, wants stop and frisk based on racial profiling. (potential racist? Stop and frisk works and illegal immigrants should not be here)

All opinion...no facts...

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

What I see is a large group of Americans who dont support him because they see through the BS, and see him for exactly who and what he is....

Which is?

Let me guess... not presidential? temperamentally unfit? the worlds most dangerous man?

mmm beautiful misdirection.......i was actually quite clear in my post what it was.......

But I love how you took one quote out of it to try and direct the conversation in the direction you wanted it to go..

Well done sir.....

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

You're a perfect counter-example of my comment, MBTM ... a well-known, cogent established conservative voice here at ATS ... and yet, you've seen through Trump's charade since the beginning. One by one, I've seen other friends of ours on the Right here slowly adopt the droning chant turning any of the very clear and blatant failings of this man (put on constant display for us not by the "MSM" but by his OWN words and actions) into "spun gold."

EDIT: Yes, the Rumpelstiltskin reference is intentional.

I am appalled that any thinking person can listen to the repetitive drivel that comes out of the man's mouth and even make sense of it, much less, praise it as some sort of populist gospel.

Thanks for remaining rational in the midst of the absurdity.

Gryphon

Great to interact with you again, and thank you for the support in that aspect......I agree, I have OFTEN thought of that same reference....its like a homespun Grimms in real life!

Thank you for being and others for being a constant voice for the rest of us to stop and THINK....Is what we believe true? Are the things we think rational? How do we weigh this? What is and what isnt?

These things are important for both sides....and its always important for those of us on both ends of the spectrum to have a barometer to measure things on.....

I love you guys and thank you for it.....

My truth has come with this election cycle......when as hard lined as i am, I come to stand with my liberal brethren on issues my conservative fellows shun me on? THAT is truth no one can deny!

Stick to your guns my friend

a reply to: matafuchs

All opinion...no facts...

No, there are actually quite a few facts in there.

Just because you refuse to acknowledge them doesn't make them false.

Trump is a grade A trashball.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You're easily one of my favorite posters here LesMis.

I don't agree with Trump's policy positions in general but I absolutely agree he has become the proverbial heretic according to the MSM.

It is disconcerting to say the least.
Excellent analysis.

He does fit the bill of the "utopian future" Big Business man of the oligarchy that is the US. Though, with that said, he's just around to prop up the "Underdog" Hillary.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

What I see is a large group of Americans who dont support him because they see through the BS, and see him for exactly who and what he is....

Which is?

Let me guess... not presidential? temperamentally unfit? the worlds most dangerous man?

mmm beautiful misdirection.......i was actually quite clear in my post what it was.......

But I love how you took one quote out of it to try and direct the conversation in the direction you wanted it to go..

Well done sir.....

I apologize, but Trump is the most high profile candidate the world has seen in a long time. We know exactly what he is, and can refer to any period in his adult life in order to confirm it.

If you fear he is not conservative enough, like every nevertrump writer at the National Review, that would be a great point had conservatives in government conserved anything over the last couple of decades. It's a little too late for that.

I wouldn't mistake the sidelines for the moral high-ground, my friend. Trump is a wildcard, but he's right on the issues of today. He may be too moderate for the conservatives, but he has pledged to work with congress, and maybe conservatives will finally start to do their jobs instead of lamenting the slow demise of everything around them.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I apologize, but Trump is the most high profile candidate the world has seen in a long time. We know exactly what he is, and can refer to any period in his adult life in order to confirm it.

Intellectually I agree, everyone knows exactly what he is, whether they chose to acknowledge it or not is a matter of intellectual dishonesty......

If you fear he is not conservative enough, like every nevertrump writer at the National Review, that would be a great point had conservatives in government conserved anything over the last couple of decades. It's a little too late for that.

I would agree that him being not conservative enough is the failing of the powers that be "in our corner" not holding up our interest, however him being held up as a paragon of Conservative ideals is NOT their failing, it is the failing of the American people for backing him......

I wouldn't mistake the sidelines for the moral high-ground, my friend. Trump is a wildcard, but he's right on the issues of today. He may be too moderate for the conservatives, but he has pledged to work with congress, and maybe conservatives will finally start to do their jobs instead of lamenting the slow demise of everything around them.

I do not take the moral high ground, rather I stick to my principles which have not been diluted, or poluted by Trumps policies, ideas, or lack there of. Rather I stand steadfastly behind them and discard him as a pariah who neither represents my principles or the path to them.....

furthermore its not about him being modest, its more the the fact that he cannot seem to find a steadfast ground to stand on, he seems to shift more than a Parkinsons afflicted man enduring an earthquake....and he does it at will....

My only hope is that this division wakes up true conservatives to what needs to be done in this country , and liberals as well....

See here is the thing that idealogs dont understand......

Classic liberals and True conservatives will come together and put their differences aside to save the republic, because we love our country......despite our political differences.....

Thats the wildcard my friend......

Star for a thought out and well reasoned response........thank you

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
TlDR: "I'm mad that people jump to conclusions about Trump's words and ignore the fact that people do the same things to Hillary Clinton. Plus I didn't want to put this in the rant section so I dressed it up with fancy words to hide the fact that I'm ranting."

Translation: I'm frustrated that you created an intelligent, thoughtful and truthful thread about somebody who I personally do not like and therefore deem it necessary to trivialise its content and attack you to feel secure in my own beliefs.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

In my opinion, what you have described is par for the course in American politics. Candidates are criticized, drug through the mud and every word inspected. It is not limited to just Trump. Your own words could be used to describe Hillary as well and she is no heretic.

Honestly, your OP comes off as if you are trying to paint Trump as some innocent victim and we should be ashamed for looking at his personality traits and question his temperament, in regards to leading and representing a country. You call it "imaginary". I would say it's recognizing the skill sets people may or may not have and hiring a person that has the skill set we need for the position.

Heritic? No. Trump is an asshole and should not be treated as if he is being persecuted, like those that would say the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Apparently give the choice of an ass or a criminal to run the country...you choose the criminal. Personally I would call that a bad choice.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

In my opinion, what you have described is par for the course in American politics. Candidates are criticized, drug through the mud and every word inspected. It is not limited to just Trump. Your own words could be used to describe Hillary as well and she is no heretic.

Honestly, your OP comes off as if you are trying to paint Trump as some innocent victim and we should be ashamed for looking at his personality traits and question his temperament, in regards to leading and representing a country. You call it "imaginary". I would say it's recognizing the skill sets people may or may not have and hiring a person that has the skill set we need for the position.

Heritic? No. Trump is an asshole and should not be treated as if he is being persecuted, like those that would say the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Apparently give the choice of an ass or a criminal to run the country...you choose the criminal. Personally I would call that a bad choice.

I choose neither. Not Trump nor Clinton will get my vote on election day.

Perhaps you should not assume.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I fight every tax season.

Lucky for Trump he doesn't have to do that huh? He just pays a bunch of tax attorneys and accountants who get him out of paying anything, while he plays golf on one of his courses where anybody less than a millionaire could never even afford to walk across the green.

But that's your boy!

He don't want no stinkin middle class peons on his golf course

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

LesMisanthrope,

I find it nearly impossible to encapsulate in a concise manner, the sheer staggering depth of the foolishness which is exemplified by any person trying to portray support for either of the candidates in the election, as being evidence of anything other than a desire, nay a demand to have the wool dragged across ones eyes.

First of all, I have to point out that your comment to the effect that many objections to a Trump presidency are considered as moralist arguments, is rather a moot point. Of course they are, but that does not mean that they are invalid, just because they are constructed around a voters morals, as opposed to something entirely irrelevant, like what an individual stands to gain personally from either candidate. Realistically speaking, a voter not prepared to put their own petty concerns (personal wealth, dislike or distrust of immigrants, and so on) aside, so that the big picture can be addressed in a proper fashion, has not understood the term patriotism correctly, since love of ones country is just a sound byte, unless it is backed by at least a small amount of sacrifice. In short, you cannot say you love your country in one breath, and then prove you hate everyone in it by voting for a tyrannical megalomaniac, who has promised to fix the economy, despite having somewhere around a billion dollars of debt right now, according to Fortune.com.

Then you go on to talk about the way that Mr Trump is being treated by the murderous, morally bankrupt pieces of walking dirt in the GOP who have to do with national security. Just to clarify, only the front line troops in America can be exonerated for their role in the awful business that the last twenty years of war has been, but the officials who have been pulling the strings, assembling the clearly bogus information that prompted the USA and Britain to go to war, in a nation which had nothing to do with anything, other than the fact that it had a hell of a lot of resources we wanted, those officials who have lambasted Trump? Hypocrites. They happen to be right about the man, because he is not a decent man, but a horrid one, who has already stated that he is fine with killing the families of terrorists, despite the fact that those families, and those terrorists, are ACTUALLY tantamount to being employees of the American, British, French, German, and generally western intelligence services at this point, which would make murdering them decidedly cold. He also made that suggestion despite the fact that it would be against several different rules pertaining to the proper conduct of soldiery in a war, but whatever, right? He can say and do what he likes? Right?

And another thing, just because Clinton is lying, hypocritical dirtbag herself, does not mean that everything she has ever said about Donald Trump is inaccurate. It is ABSOLUTELY fair to suggest that a man who is so insecure that he cannot correctly handle a Twitter post, should not be left near the sharp implements, the firearms, the explosives or any other mundane weapon system, leave alone the launch controls for the most devastating assemblage of exotic weapons of mass destruction, ever developed by mankind. The fact that she is not fit to hold the position either does not take away that she is correct in her statement that Mr Trump is not fit to hold it. It just so happens that she is capable of telling the truth, when it distracts away from truths about herself in the eyes of the voter. It also just so happens that you would have to be a halfwit to be drawn in by it, but the point is, she can do it.

Realistically LesMisanthrope, The fact that Trump cannot handle Twitter without losing his grip, DOES mean that he is unfit to lead. Good leaders cannot be drawn into a battle, not even one of words. They control which battles they are in, and they win them before the first word is spoken, before the first shot is fired. Trumps performance shows him to be incapable of the kind of tactical planning necessary to control even a Twitter Troll, despite the instructions for dealing with these things being printed on countless memes all over the web. You see, the sort of person who is fit to lead, does not wait until they are leading, in order to show their qualities, THEY LIVE BY THEM! Trump does not live by qualities. He lives by way of his faults, not his virtues. If he was living by his virtues he would never open his mouth again, and get a job he IS qualified to do, which is mop floors at a two bit motel, while swearing about the humidity. He lives instead by his faults, his inflated self opinion, his silver spoon upbringing, his total LACK of anything substantial in common with the voting public, and by debt.

The man is a fraud.

You cannot defend this man legitimately, unless you have abandoned your every shred of good sense.

But I would say the same about Hilary for different reasons. What I do know, is that as long as you insist on legitimising one lying sack of vomit over the other, your nation will not thank you for your stupidity in the long term. That goes just as much for HRC as it does for DJT.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Fantastic post! I just said this in another thread...

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
That just illustrates that some people will look at the Douche and will conclude that, while not ideal or even desired, they can overlook some things in order to have the leadership they can more easily live with. And other people will conclude the same about the Turd Sandwich. So, some think Clinton is worse and some think Donald is worse.

It's all opinion.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

In my opinion, what you have described is par for the course in American politics. Candidates are criticized, drug through the mud and every word inspected. It is not limited to just Trump. Your own words could be used to describe Hillary as well and she is no heretic.

Honestly, your OP comes off as if you are trying to paint Trump as some innocent victim and we should be ashamed for looking at his personality traits and question his temperament, in regards to leading and representing a country. You call it "imaginary". I would say it's recognizing the skill sets people may or may not have and hiring a person that has the skill set we need for the position.

Heritic? No. Trump is an asshole and should not be treated as if he is being persecuted, like those that would say the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Apparently give the choice of an ass or a criminal to run the country...you choose the criminal. Personally I would call that a bad choice.

I choose neither. Not Trump nor Clinton will get my vote on election day.

Perhaps you should not assume.

Why? I like assuming things. Mostly because so many people lie at the drop of a hat these days.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Realistically, TrueBrit, you're talking about Tweets. When you say Trump is "losing his grip" over tweets, do you picture a man pulling out his hair, foaming at the mouth, while pacing across his marble floors? Writing a 146-character tweet can be done while sitting on the toilet, while making coffee, at any benign moment, and if you picture a racing madman in a deep sweat staring at his iPhone, I dare say that imagery has been put there by someone else, because it clearly does not resemble any reality I am aware of.

I didn't say arguments against Trump were moralizing arguments, but aesthetic arguments, and that they do so while moralizing, that they are pretending they are morally superior for doing so. You say trump is not a decent man, despite having never met him, but then reveal your censorious and prudish instincts against how he speaks. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys cannot make it past the very same name-calling he engages in, and have the gall to claim moral superiority. I bet if I compare your life, your behaviour to Trump's, we will see the real hypocrite.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

There's Trumps words and Hillary's actions. Actions do in fact, speak louder than words, though words do need to be used in a certain way to influence people.

Had I wrote this thread, I may not have gotten as many replies, as many stars, etc - Because I am not as intelligent, eloquent, concise as this author.

I'd relate his ability to write a pro-trump thread to Hillary's ability to pander to the masses. Sure, she can say things that sound good - But she literally has huge crimes that cannot be denied. I was held to a stricter standard as a pharmacy worker with health information than she is being held with national security information. Her foundation has all but been proven to be a slush fund, there's just too many things she's DONE to care what Trump is saying.

His lack of eloquent speech is actually what draws people to him.
He's not politically correct.
He's not been trained and refined by some elite group.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Great post, Brit. I agree with what you have side - Despite hating HRC to a greater degree, that is not a reason to want Trump in as the President as he is not fit for the job, either.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

LesMisanthrope,

Let us compare shall we? I have paid all the taxes I owe throughout my life, and have never taken a loan in my life. I am not a rich man by any account, but I live a frugal life, because that is all I can afford to live. I have lived on the streets, and still managed to feed other denizens of the streets while about it. I have never taken a penny I was not entitled to in my whole life. I have even avoided taking state aid, despite being technically entitled to it on several occasions.

I have been working, and by that I mean actually working with either the simple sweat of my brow alone, or using tools and machinery in a precision industry, for my whole adult life. I have never once made money from the efforts of others, but have rigidly and exclusively gained what insignificant resources I have had out of life, by earning them with my literal blood, sweat, and tears.

Mr Trump cannot say the same. His first million came from his parents fortunes, a million he used to create a con called his real estate empire over time, by shuffling paper and hiding his every failure from as many eyes as possible, in order to facilitate the next con. The man is a fool at best, and a morally retarded shark at worst. When I speak of morals sir, I speak from a position of practicing the very letter of what I preach.

a reply to: TrueBrit

He actually got a $200 million business from his father. And he's failed to make that grow into the massive fortune of $20 billion that it would be today, with a competent businessman at the helm.

Trump's "Riches-to-Riches" Story