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Who sits on the left hand of God?

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posted on Oct, 19 2016 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft
Is it OK or a good thing to desire (or want) the instruction of Jehovah instead of silver, to desire knowledge rather than choice gold or precious rubies?

How about desiring/wanting to do unto others as you would have them do unto you? A desire to do good? A desire to be kind to everyone (even those hating you, doing bad things to you, or things you take offence of, not doing unto you as you would like them to do)? A desire to forgive others? A desire to tell the truth? Perhaps this text can provide a clue (since you were quoting from Proverbs as well):

Proverbs 13:12

12 Expectation* postponed makes the heart sick,

But a desire realized is a tree of life.


*: Or “Hope.”

Perhaps it matters more what a person actually desires or wants (to do)? (thinking about some earlier commentary I've seen on ATS by those giving the impression that all forms of "desire" are a bad thing, or evil, depending on how they want to phrase that, usually those into Eastern philosophy, Buddhism or Hinduism, Gnosticism, or New Age philosophy)

Jesus said at John 8:43-45:

Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me.

Jesus also desired/wanted to do the will of his Father and his God, Jehovah (see John 4:34).

Coming back to that proverb you quoted for a moment:
“Everyone Shrewd Will Act With Knowledge”

THE guidance from God’s Word, the Bible, ‘is more to be desired than gold—than much refined gold.’ (Psalm 19:7-10) Why? Because “the law of the wise one [Jehovah] is a source of life, to turn one away from the snares of death.” (Proverbs 13:14) When applied, the counsel from the Scriptures not only improves the quality of our life but also helps us to avoid snares that endanger it. How vital that we seek out knowledge of the Scriptures and comply with what we learn!

2 Peter 3:9:

Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.
edit on 19-10-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 20 2016 @ 10:53 AM
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Where is the guy who said ''four Melchizedeks?"

I have been waiting for the evidence, I even called b.s. on him/her.

I guess I called it right.



posted on Oct, 20 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic



Originally posted by Whereisthelogic
Is it OK or a good thing to desire (or want) the instruction of Jehovah instead of silver, to desire knowledge rather than choice gold or precious rubies?

How about desiring/wanting to do unto others as you would have them do unto you? A desire to do good? A desire to be kind to everyone (even those hating you, doing bad things to you, or things you take offence of, not doing unto you as you would like them to do)? A desire to forgive others? A desire to tell the truth? Perhaps this text can provide a clue (since you were quoting from Proverbs as well):

Proverbs 13:12

12 Expectation* postponed makes the heart sick,

But a desire realized is a tree of life.

*: Or “Hope.”

Perhaps it matters more what a person actually desires or wants (to do)? (thinking about some earlier commentary I've seen on ATS by those giving the impression that all forms of "desire" are a bad thing, or evil, depending on how they want to phrase that, usually those into Eastern philosophy, Buddhism or Hinduism, Gnosticism, or New Age philosophy)

Jesus said at John 8:43-45:

Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me.

Jesus also desired/wanted to do the will of his Father and his God, Jehovah (see John 4:34).

Coming back to that proverb you quoted for a moment:
“Everyone Shrewd Will Act With Knowledge”

THE guidance from God’s Word, the Bible, ‘is more to be desired than gold—than much refined gold.’ (Psalm 19:7-10) Why? Because “the law of the wise one [Jehovah] is a source of life, to turn one away from the snares of death.” (Proverbs 13:14) When applied, the counsel from the Scriptures not only improves the quality of our life but also helps us to avoid snares that endanger it. How vital that we seek out knowledge of the Scriptures and comply with what we learn!

2 Peter 3:9:

Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.



It appears as though you have misinterpreted my last reply to vethumanbeing…which was quite an understandable mistake to make…

You need to follow mine and Vets entire discussion (in this thread), as well as with a few other posters, to understand the context of my last reply with Vethumanbeing…


You can start from here and then read the rest of the discussion from there…

You will find that I advocated that “desire” can be both positive or negative; I don’t come from any Eastern Buddhism or Hindu philosophy, although Gnostic is to do with knowing, so you could argue it’s a Gnostic perspective…

In that discussion I mentioned that “desire” can be for good, righteous and Godly things etc…where as the other posters I was discussing it with, were seeing “desire” as being only in the negative. Which is a common Eastern perspective, and not one that I hold.

Anyway, I was surprised to see the Poster (Vethumanbeing) using the word “desire” in a positive way, considering our previous discussion in this thread. My reply was really a tongue in cheek response based off our earlier discussion…

Easy mistake to make though…


- JC



edit on 20-10-2016 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2016 @ 09:16 PM
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originally posted by: Malocchio
Where is the guy who said ''four Melchizedeks?"
I have been waiting for the evidence, I even called b.s. on him/her.
I guess I called it right.

YES YOU DID; in your own admittance: "I will not remember you before or after your response ANYWAY as you do not matter to me and I will not remember any response I made to you".


edit on 20-10-2016 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2016 @ 10:01 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft
Well, I didn't assume anything about your views regarding "desire". I indicated later that my questions were based on thinking about the way others here on ATS have talked about the subject of desire. Similarly to what you now described. The questions were also just in case you felt the same way about it but I tried to be careful not to phrase anything in a way that could be viewed as me assuming that you did, solely based on what I quoted from you. Reading back my comment I probably did a poor job at that cause the questions are very direct and rhetorical as if I did assume this regarding you (perhaps I should have mentioned whose commentary I was thinking about and which views I was responding to a little earlier in my comment, right after the first question).

Because of you I did add "gnosticism" to my list of where these types of arguments or ways of thinking is present cause I remembered asceticism which sometimes has some of the same elements or concepts in its philosophy or ideology (or connected to it, not always, and not always exactly the same as I described earlier).
edit on 20-10-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2016 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic



Originally posted by Whereisthelogic

I indicated later that my questions were based on thinking about the way others here on ATS have talked about the subject of desire.


But all the other posters saw “desire” as being only negative. Your questions would have been better directed towards them than myself…Most of your questions were about whether someone can or should have good desires…which I’m in agreement on already based on my prior posts…

It didn’t seem logical for someone to ask those types of questions to someone (myself) who already agrees that Godly and righteous desires are a good thing. So based on that I came to the logical conclusion that you had made a mistake and weren’t aware of my position on “desire” from my previous posts in this thread…which was quite a natural decision to make from my perspective; unless you think otherwise…?




Originally posted by Whereisthelogic
Reading back my comment I probably did a poor job at that cause the questions are very direct and rhetorical as if I did assume this regarding you (perhaps I should have mentioned whose commentary I was thinking about and which views I was responding to a little earlier in my comment, right after the first question).


Yes, and your questions were essentially aimed at those who see “desire” as bad in all cases, which doesn’t apply to me because that’s not my view…so again one has to conclude that you made a mistake.

Plus I’m pretty much in agreement with where you were going with the questions, so there wasn’t much I could answer, other than to say “I agree” etc…

But anyway, I’ll try to answer one of your questions…



Originally posted by Whereisthelogic
Is it OK or a good thing to desire (or want) the instruction of Jehovah instead of silver, to desire knowledge rather than choice gold or precious rubies?


Yes I agree it is ok, because it is a good positive desire to have; but that specific desire should be for knowledge which comes direct from the Spirit of God, which is what I believe those specific Proverbs verses are alluding too.

Knowledge from the Spirit of God is the highest desire anyone can have IMO…but it’s not knowledge of theology or doctrines from men or a learned Religion, but is instead truth from God that comes directly into a person through the power of the Spirit.


- JC



posted on Oct, 21 2016 @ 08:14 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Malocchio

Where is the guy who said ''four Melchizedeks?"
I have been waiting for the evidence, I even called b.s. on him/her.
I guess I called it right.

[vethumanbeing]
YES YOU DID



You are just going to admit defeat?

That's honest. Had I said something ridiculous like ''there were four Melchizedeks" without proof or source, I would feel defeated too when called on it as b.s.

Though I would not say anything I could not provide a source for in the first place, not without labeling it a theory or something.
edit on 21-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2016 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft
Sometimes I prefer responding to people I can agree with on something rather than responding to those who I already know or expect to go 'nuh-uh' (but others can read along as I raise the points that I think might be useful for consideration in a particular conversation, in your case for bringing it up next time as well, regardless of their current views or whether or not you already did, since I can't keep track of all your comments about that subject anyway, so just in case you didn't bring them up or didn't think about phrasing it that way* when you are having a conversation with those who feel the way about "desires" as described earlier). Also seeing that it's fairly rare considering the phrase in 2 Timothy 3:1-7, "not open to any agreement" and another phrase elsewhere "constant disputes about minor matters" (also in Timothy).

*: see comment and video at the end of this comment what I mean with "phrasing it that way"

Talking about the topic of what type of knowledge is useful to know and put into practice (hence also the terminology "discipline" instead of "instruction" in other translations at Proverbs 8:10, btw whatever Jesus taught he was taught by his Father Jehovah, so those teachings originate with Jehovah; see John 8:28), at John 17:3 Jesus says to his Father and his God Jehovah (all quotations below are from the NWT unless otherwise specified):

This means everlasting life, their coming to know you,* the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

*: Or “their taking in knowledge of you.”

Regarding the theological doctrine (or theology) that the holy spirit of God is a person and therefore is capitalized or even referred to as "the Holy Ghost" (KJV, not that you did the latter but it's involved in this way of thinking about the holy spirit), Luke 1:35a:

In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you.

The holy spirit = The invisible energizing force that God puts into action to accomplish his will. It is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is God’s means to accomplish what is holy.—see also Ac 1:8. And my comment in this thread.

So whatever it's doing, it's still originating from Jehovah God a.k.a. the Most High, the Almighty. Coming back to Proverbs to get more information about what type of knowledge chapter 8 is talking about (or an answer to the question: knowledge about what? What knowledge?). Proverbs 2:1-6:

My son, if you accept my sayings

And treasure up my commandments,

2 By making your ear attentive to wisdom

And inclining your heart to discernment;

3 Moreover, if you call out for understanding

And raise your voice for discernment;

4 If you keep seeking for it as for silver,

And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures;

5 Then you will understand the fear of* Jehovah, [*: Or “reverence for.”]

And you will find the knowledge of God.

6 For Jehovah himself gives wisdom;

From his mouth come knowledge and discernment.


And the 2 verses after what you quoted from chapter 8:

12 I, wisdom, dwell together with shrewdness;

I have found knowledge and thinking ability.

13 The fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad.

I hate self-exaltation and pride and the evil way and perverse speech.


Numbers 24:16:

The saying of the one hearing the word of God, And the one having the knowledge of the Most High, A vision of the Almighty he saw While bowing down with his eyes uncovered:

Acquiring and applying “the very knowledge of God” should be an important element in our life. (Proverbs 2:1-5) Indeed, we should be determined to satisfy our spiritual need, for we cannot stand alone and apart from God. A happy and truly rewarding life depends on a good relationship with Jehovah, “the Most High over all the earth.”—Psalm 83:18.

KJV:

That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.

NWT:

May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

* from way earlier in the comment, bit of a sidepoint: Jesus often answered questions with questions (sometimes rhetorical or just to trigger some line of reasoning or thinking):

edit on 22-10-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2016 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic



Originally posted by Whereisthelogic
Sometimes I prefer responding to people I can agree with on something rather than responding to those who I already know or expect to go 'nuh-uh'


If you prefer to interact with those that agree with you…then why did you frame your questions towards those that don’t agree that desire can be good in some cases…when I hold the opposite view; which is the same view as yourself…

That doesn’t make any sense…?

Just to help clarify here’s part of your first post again below…



Originally posted by Whereisthelogic
Is it OK or a good thing to desire (or want) the instruction of Jehovah instead of silver, to desire knowledge rather than choice gold or precious rubies?

How about desiring/wanting to do unto others as you would have them do unto you? A desire to do good? A desire to be kind to everyone (even those hating you, doing bad things to you, or things you take offence of, not doing unto you as you would like them to do)? A desire to forgive others? A desire to tell the truth?


All of your questions about “desire” above, were aimed at asking people who see “desire” as a bad thing…You were essentially asking the question “why can’t desire be good in some cases etc.”…but my view is exactly that!!!…that desire can be good in some cases…

Asking me those questions just doesn’t add up…unless you weren’t aware of my perspective on “desire”, that I outlined earlier in this thread…



Originally posted by Whereisthelogic
(but others can read along as I raise the points that I think might be useful for consideration in a particular conversation, in your case for bringing it up next time as well, regardless of their current views or whether or not you already did, since I can't keep track of all your comments about that subject anyway, so just in case you didn't bring them up or didn't think about phrasing it that way* when you are having a conversation with those who feel the way about "desires" as described earlier).


Regarding not keeping track of my posts, you were there posting on page 4 when I was discussing it with vethumanbeing, as well as page 5 and 6 where vet and I continued the discussion…???

But more importantly, if you prefer interacting with those that you agree with, then you should have been aware of what my position was regarding “desire”, before replying to my posts

Here’s the problem…

You have to keep track of a person thoughts and opinions in the thread, if you wish or prefer to interact with posters you agree with… But you just admitted that you can’t keep track of all my posts etc…but the only posts you had to keep track of, are the ones in this thread where I talked about “desire”…

Added to which your questions aimed towards myself, were aimed at the opposite view too that which I hold.

Those type of questions would make sense if you hadn’t kept track of my previous posts but at the same time, that doesn’t add up with statement “Sometimes I prefer responding to people I can agree with on something”. Because that would mean you would have to keep track of my posts, to know what my position was etc…


- JC



posted on Oct, 22 2016 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic



Originally posted by Whereisthelogic
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you,* the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.


I would argue they are coming to know “everlasting life”, through coming to know their divine connection to the Father within themselves.

The knowledge those verses allude too, is really a spiritual knowledge, which comes from what the Bible calls the Holy Spirit…Receiving the Spirit of Lord is what leads to Wisdom and understanding. Those who receive it, have a “renewing of their mind”, i.e. they begin to think and live spiritually. This is also why many of those verses also add that they will detest bad, evil, and wickedness etc…

Jesus represents Wisdom. Wisdom gives knowledge and understanding. Jesus is an embodiment of the truth because he understood those things directly from the Spirit of God…

Unfortunately men turned Jesus into a Religion…IMO… Religion is about accepting truth. But The Spirit teaches in a pure form of understanding…




Originally posted by Whereisthelogic
*: Or “their taking in knowledge of you.”

Regarding the theological doctrine (or theology) that the holy spirit of God is a person and therefore is capitalized or even referred to as "the Holy Ghost" (KJV, not that you did the latter but it's involved in this way of thinking about the holy spirit), Luke 1:35a:

In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you.

The holy spirit = The invisible energizing force that God puts into action to accomplish his will. It is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is God’s means to accomplish what is holy.—see also Ac 1:8. And my comment in this thread.



The Holy Spirit = The Father + The Son…

The Father is the totality of all knowledge in the entire infinite universe, who’s Spirit permeates through all things. You (and everyone else) are directly connected to the Father because you have the Spirit of life within you. Your soul is the real you i.e. The Son.

When the Father meets with the Son spiritually speaking, you will experience what is known as the “Holy Spirit”, which is indeed initiated by the Father, although to some extent also by the Son because he (the Son) is seeking (Knocking on the door) but ultimately it is the Father who is above all who unites with the Son.

The Holy Spirit isn’t an actual separate thing though…IMO it’s really the meeting of two things together i.e. The Father’s Spirit with the Son’s Soul…when this meeting takes place, what happens in-between is the termed the “Holy Spirit”…but it’s really just a label to try to express it…

This is why the Holy Spirit is said to give birth to the Son, because it changes the old son into a New Creation. This is where the phrase “birthed into the Kingdom” comes from, and why the Holy Spirit has so often been feminised in various sources found outside of the Bible…

The New creation is a Son who is now One with the Father. This is what Jesus prayer in John 16 was referring too, when he talked about wanting others to become one, just as he was one with the Father…

The mechanics for how this happens and for how one gets there, is a whole other discussion…but ultimately it’s to do with seeking God from the heart…


Btw –Although I like this topic, it’s way off topic for this thread, as is discussing “desire”…perhaps it could be discussed some other time in another thread…


- JC




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